Urgent, what can they legally do?(sorry, very long)

[jollyhollymum]

My teen DS 16 has decided to leave home. Don't really know why but he's quite immature in some ways and I think it's mostly because he has an 11pm curfew. TBH he's run a bit wild sometimes bevause I have three others and it's hard to be consistent all the time. He went to a posh school, usual story, sleepovers at posh boys houses, started smoking, did teen stuff. Is brilliant drummer and was in a band with DH (stepdad from 16weeks), plays guitar etc. Big temper but not really bad teen. My theory was he doesn't do drugs, he's usually home when he's meant to be and he hasn't brought any babies home.On a teen scale, that's not too bad. Had lots of problems with fruit machines over the last year, "lost" two phones and stole money from me three weeks ago. Was deeply shocked and hurt, took his laptop away and grounded him. Lasted for three weeks and TBH he didn't kick off like I thought. Asked to go out but didn't when I said no.

Sorry long rant! NOW he's working, that's a long story too. Basically cutting it short he now sells/promotes windows and is sort of on a basic plus commission. Last week was supposed to be home at 8.30 after work and turned up at 10.30! Had been phoning and texting but no answer. He came up with a mind blowing lie about breaking down in someone's car and after an hour of us probing we gave up. Both working, very tired. He admitted next day that he's been at some girl's house and fallen asleep. It's not the girl I mind, it's the worry and the lies.

Anyway, last night he announced quite calmly tht he was going to see a "room"! £54 a week all in, except food.Apparantly he's spoken to the people and is going to see it. If I had a teen phone me, I'd ask to see/speak to the parents first. It's in a shared Doctor's house with two other students and TBH sund OK. I've tried explaining that it's not that simple etc etc but can he sign a legal tenant agreement at 16? He is such a spoilt brat sometimes but he's my DS and I love him. Didn't sleep last night 'cos I'm feeling crap. His life here is easy and it's not like he's been running away and hates me. The final straw was on Wednesday when he phoned me from work to say that he'd been paid and wanted to buy presents for his siblings and me and Dad! Could he repay his "loan" over two weeks. Well, big lump in throat I agreed. I hadn't asked him to and it made me feel better. Two hours late, he turned up looking grey and in tears. He's gambled his whole wages away and came in asking for help. I didn't need to tell him off he looked so angry and sad with himself. Felt gutted and sick but booked him a doc's appt (which I can't know about because he's 16!) and came back from work to find he'd cancelled it. He's booked one for today but I'm not holding my breath. I feel so sad and everyone says to let him go and he'll appreciate home. BUT he can do what he wants, when he wants and he'll live on chips and junk. I can't legally stop him going, can I? His NF says I should just say no and mean it. WTF he's 6foot and not a baby. I don't want him to hate me but he's still only young, too young IMHO to be on his own. He met all his school mates yesterday who were allowed an hour out of school at lunch, and he wants to leave home!

Sorry long miserable rant, but help needed please.

[kernowcat]

He'll always be your DS, sounds like he has a prob with money. Will he be far away? Maybe being independant will help him to face up to that?
It will be unbelivably hard for you but I think he'll be back but hopefully with a new found appreciation for home?
sorry can't be of more help but I'm sure as the day wears the advice will get better.
Good luck.

Let him know how much you love him.

[jollyhollymum]

Sitting here crying. Have all the insecurities of any mum but all my kids know, all four of them that they are my lfe and I love them. Even when I'm yelling constantly about rooms, plates, washing etc. They are all a bit selfish (aren't all kids) and cheeky but I think it's normal. I do tell them when I'm really mad with them that I don't like their attitude or them but I'll always love them Thanks for the info, I'll tell him that he can't sign anything but what if they just let him stay there with no agreement. If he leaves before Xmas, he's going to ruin it and not just for me, for everyone. What worries me is what the renting people are thinking about me and our family. They must think we're awful if he wants to leave and we're not, honest.

[earlgrey]

JHM, no practical advice here - my eldest dd is 8, but going on 16.

Just wanted to say you sound like such a loving, caring mother. I left home at 17, not because I didn't love it there, but because I suppose I wanted to see what the big world was like. I moved from London to Oxford, but my mum made sure she saw where I would be living and that it would be suitable.

Would that be an option? Prepare yourself for some financial baleing out at some point. For the same reason, if he says he needs something I'd say I'd buy it for him and he can pay you back - and try and make sure he does!

But it does seem as though he needs some help with the gambling. How is he able to do it at 16? Are you legally allowed to gamble at 16?

[earlgrey]

Yes, good point batters, don't let him know you'll bale him out - but be prepared for it!

[skye24]

Hi please please get him help for his gambling, my ex had a real gambling prob which started as a teen. Throughout our marriage he gambled, i never knew if there would be money for things like food or rent. My ds's 2 second birtday came and if it hadnt been for my parents he wouldnt have had a present,as ex had 'lost ' his wallet. Staying oout late and never telling the truth about where he was, always short of money are such signs. Your teen sounds as if he is getting to a really low ebb, sound awful but use that to get him to something like Gamblers Anon.
PS, my experience was 30 years ago, ex went through 3 marriages 4 kids, only 1 mine, never paid maintenance for any, never got help , is now sad lonely old man. Please Please help him with this addiction it can destry lives as much as drugs. Im sorry for maybe worrying you more, but even starting to acknowledge the prob, is oin the way to dealing with it

[WhenSantaWentQuietlyMad]

Jollyhollymum, you sound like you are handling this very difficult situation as well as you possibly could. Of course you love your son, and he loves you. Some teenagers go through a very very difficult time, and it sounds like he is, and he is taking you all with him too.

I would echo what skye said and get help for the gambling. It isn't that uncommon for young boys to get heavily into gambling, and most of them grow out of it, but to have spent his whole wages is a warning sign. It would certainly help the whole situation if he could recognise the problem and get help.

Good luck.

[jollyhollymum]

Thanks guys, gearing up for the school run now! He can gamble because he uses fruit machines, how many pub landloards bookies ask how old kids are?! I don't feel like a great mum, but thanks for the comments I just wish I could reverse time and start again. I would be so much harded on him and the others, and yes, he's not really a bad kid but as all teen parents say, I hate how they talk to us. I really would have been in so much trouble if I had talked to my parents this way. They would have laughed at me leaving home, because they said no and that was it then!I am not being legally responsible for his debts, why should i? If he's old enough to leave home he can pay his own bloody way.I am worried about him gambling and he has "lost" his wallet a few times. I also don't know where he gets money from, well, apart from the fact he is filching from us. His Dad gives him a fiver now and again but he has his phone contract from us and no pocket money. I think sometimes as long as they're quiet, I just stick my head down and hope he stays out of trouble. He has a typical teen mouth too and I hope that this won't get him into shit. I can't bear the thought of him being beaten up or in trouble and me not being there. How can I live on tenterhooks every day waiting for the phone to ring, good or bad news. Who is he mixing with? I am going to ask where he's "living" and insist on an address. He won't want me to go will he? How do I know he's at work when he says he is? I can't phone him at work because he's not allowed phone calls. Right off to school soon. Thanks for the support

[jollyhollymum]

Thanks guys, gearing up for the school run now! He can gamble because he uses fruit machines, how many pub landloards bookies ask how old kids are?! I don't feel like a great mum, but thanks for the comments I just wish I could reverse time and start again. I would be so much harded on him and the others, and yes, he's not really a bad kid but as all teen parents say, I hate how they talk to us. I really would have been in so much trouble if I had talked to my parents this way. They would have laughed at me leaving home, because they said no and that was it then!I am not being legally responsible for his debts, why should i? If he's old enough to leave home he can pay his own bloody way.I am worried about him gambling and he has "lost" his wallet a few times. I also don't know where he gets money from, well, apart from the fact he is filching from us. His Dad gives him a fiver now and again but he has his phone contract from us and no pocket money. I think sometimes as long as they're quiet, I just stick my head down and hope he stays out of trouble. He has a typical teen mouth too and I hope that this won't get him into shit. I can't bear the thought of him being beaten up or in trouble and me not being there. How can I live on tenterhooks every day waiting for the phone to ring, good or bad news. Who is he mixing with? I am going to ask where he's "living" and insist on an address. He won't want me to go will he? How do I know he's at work when he says he is? I can't phone him at work because he's not allowed phone calls. Right off to school soon. Thanks for the support

[chenin]

Oh poor you! But he does sound a normal balanced lad despite everything. I think its a good sign if he turns up distraught at having 'lost' the money. But I do think you have to concentrate on the gambling problem. Some grow out of it, some don't. My DH never did but it is under control. Luckily he can afford to have a flutter now.

He can't sign a tenancy agreement at this age. Now he's working you have less say in what he does but starting work at this young age will teach him so very much. Do you charge him rent? Because you should do.

He really sounds like he's lost his way a little but it really sounds like it might blow over if you can loosen the control on him... he needs to make his own mistakes. I know he should have been home at 8.30 and got home at 10.30 instead. My 17yo DD1 does this all the time and she isn't working yet. Its annoying but he is now a working man and you have to give him the responsibility to go with that.

You sound such a loving family... hope it all works out.

[skye24]

hi hollyjollymum im sorry to have sounded so neg before, but on the good side, my child is now a 29 year old son, a responsible and loving father himself, recently married to a lovely South African Girl, qualified as a electritian, and about to emigrate, but once upon a time he was a teenager, ands OMG, the original Kevin, like yours he wanted to leave home at 16, he had gone into the Army but medically discharged with Asthma, and unlike your son there was a baby ( he and the mother had split up before he even knew, but thats another story!). Anyway to cut a long story short, he left went into a shared house with 5 others around the same age, it lasted 2 months before he realised what side his bread was buttered, and came home,
finally left home at 21, after a couple of short term lets, my dh(his SF) and he decided to join forces to buy a flat for him to live in. Never defaulted on giving us his half of the mortgage, and now on selling taking a good deposit with him to SA.
They do grow up eventually, but now bringing up 13 year old GD, teenage boys are more emotional than girls without a doubt, at least with girls there is a cycle.
I know this is a bit rambling, its early, am achildminder and waiting for kids to arrive, but i guess all i want to say, sometimes you have to let go to keep them. Even now at 29 dreading when he goes to SA, (we are to follow in 5 years when ds leaves Army) but we will stay in touch through web cam every day.
Keep your chin up, I remeber feeling that it would never get better, but it does.

[jollyhollymum]

Bumping this and thanking you. I know he's working but he's sooo immature. He's in bed now, and I woke him at 9am, he has to be in work for 10. HMMMM, do I go up and yell or leave him to it?He was giving me housekeeping and moaned about that. His job was (until he got sacked) selling milk offers at the door, you know, where you have milk off the milkman and he did really well. £150 week plus bonuses at 16. I asked him for £30 a week and he went nuts. Have explained over and over cost of gas etc etc but he can get this flat/room for £54 a week all in except food. Sounds like a great deal, might take it myself!! Seriously, my dad isn't well, mental stuff, my nephew(well, ex family's but v. close) has been diagnosed with CP, no talking, walking, speech, deaf and blind and my son is messing me round because he doesn't like my rules.

I can hear Custy running down the mumsnet line telling me off and she's right BUT my friend's son died of an asthma attack whilst playing rugby at 15. I can't bear the tghought that we'll have huge rows and if I say something awful, what if he gets run over or even worse. gets his car in March and wraps it around a tree. I wish so much they were babies again, I miss my babies

[jollyhollymum]

hopeful bump

[themoon66]

Did he get up in time for work?

[WhenSantaWentQuietlyMad]

I very much suspect from what you are saying, that he is partly attention seeking. Teenagers have a need to provoke a reaction, and you can't really do the right (or wrong?) thing. They are off on their independent trajectory.

I suppose that by setting boundaries, which you are doing, hopefully you are giving him the right balance of support and something to rebel against.

It sounds like a really tough time for you. Many of the things that are going wrong are out of your control, so I wonder if you are trying to be responsible for your son, simply because it is one problem you can exert some influence on?

[skye24]

Hi has he managed to get to work, you have my greatest sympathy, I in the end refused to keep trying to get up for work , and as he played Rugby on a Saturday, I didnt get him up for this either after a few rows about the fact he was late/missed the game, he started to get up. Never managed to get him to keep his room tidy or take a coffe cup into the kitchen, (and god forbid I asked him to wipe down the surface after making the coffee) even when he left home his flat was a mess used to drive me mad, so refused to go into his room/flat, needless to say he met his now wife and turned ino the tidiest cleanest boy you could imagine. (yes I know he is now a man but he will always be my boy.) I wish she had come along a lot earlier.
There is a light at the end of the tunnel, it just takes some getting there. My ds says to me now he dosnt know how I put up with him.

[jollyhollymum]

I did yell a couple more times and yes, he did get up. Went to work and so did I. He apparantly "tried" to phone the docs but was told to phone at 8.30am on Monday morning to book for after Xmas! Am hoping the moving thing will die down until after Xmas. Have decided to ask him where and if he is going then and that I need to know where he is for emergencies. I can then alert the flat people that he's 16 and a liability! Hopefully they can let him down without suspicion and the idea may die down. I need to let his dad know what's going on too but have decided to wait until after Xmas, as he's been very ill and couldn't cope with any more stress. If my DS moves out before, I'll have to let him go. I can get him to tidy his room, every so often I ask him to blitz it and it's really well done. He can now iron as well, as to make extra money, I was paying him money to iron. Taught him how to iron a shirt properly and thought it would take him about 15 mins each one, so gave him 10 and said "50p per shirt". Came in 2 hours later and he'd done 14shirts!! Checked them over and had to pay up!Kids, eh. He's due back at 8.15ish tonight after work, has no money and hopefully will be back on time. Someone said he's not really a "bad" kid and he isn't but lying is my pet hate! I wish he was little again

[skye24]

the best laid plans! He does sound as if he is really just a typical 16 year old apart from the gambling, they do get better honest. Now bringing up his 13 year old daughter, boys are definitly more emotional!

[bigfatred]

Hi - to go back to your query, at 16 he can only be a licensee so it would be easy to get him out and he has minimum protection from eviction. If he wasn't working and claiming benefits he would be capped at a 'single room rent restriction' until the age of 25 and the capping would be applied AFTER deducting for bills so he basically wouldn't be able to afford it. If he kicks off about £30 pw he may be in for a bit of a shock if he moves out. But then maybe that's no bad thing....

[Lwatkins]

This may be wrong but i thought you had to be 18 to move out. You can move out at 16 but need parental consent to do so. This was the case for some people i used to go to college with, cause we were up north and they came from london, at the age of 16 his parents LET him move out to go to college. Don't forget that if your ds is 16 he is still technically classed as a minor, therefor (sp) what you say - goes! The only way he can move out at 16 (to my understanding) is with your permission, or if you kick him out, then he could apply for housing through council etc. Sorry, this may not be right but this is how i thought it was legally

[colditz]

No they don't need permission. the law is, they can move out but you cannot throw them out.

[Tortington]

you offered me xmas at your house in 2004 i think it was.

you dont know me, but i was whinging about hating xmas. and i truly believe that if i had said - "ok fine, me and dh and three kids - stick nother turkey in" you would have.

the moral of the story is your a good person.

now window sales have no future. we both know this.

get his arse on an apprenticeship - phone college. ask whats available.

re money:

does he pay you board? cos he should. at mine is one third of weekly income - so 100 quid i get 33 1000 quid i get 333. one third sound very reasonable.

now he must save some money for his car. the one he will want when he is 18.

to do this you will ask someone who knows more about this than me - but i am thinking an isa - no bank card, which you will tell him means he cant get at it until he is 18 - then hide the passbook. he will send direct debit to his isa account for say ? 25 quid?

this you can have a discussion on - maybe you will match his savings pound for pound to the value of 30 quid per week. ( or his board money in other words) i am not hat benevolent and spend board money on beer.

social life.

lots of parents dont agree - and ofcourse it all depends on the child. what works for me is knowing my child is safe.

so if he wants to go out with mates. get very shitfaced i will facilitate this process.

i will buy beer.
drop him off
pick him up

this is only facilitated once every other month on the unspoken ( becuase i dont need to actually say words) condition that if he pisses me off he can kiss my fat fucking arse.

and finally. my rules baby. oh yeah. my way or kiss my fucking arse.

home by 10pm every night. EVERY night. door are locked at ....10pm.

you want new clothes?

you earn a wage - go buy some
you want new shoes - ditto
rollerblades -
skateboard
new bike

you buy it my son becuase you YOU have worked very very hard all week as a builders apprentice. hard graft.

you earned your money. you spend it on things you want.

and

it feels good

so he wants to spend £80 on rollerblades. i shake my head in disbelief. the waste the waste i think

but he earned it fairly and squarly.

get him a future. get him into college get him an apprenticeship.

whats the point of working every day all day when its going no where?

my Son loves his money becuase it buys him things. this is becuase i dont buy him things.

i provide a washng machine for HIS USE

and a cooked meal ( if hes here)

i hope that was of some use. they go through twatty phases.

[Tortington]

oh and in answer to original question - they are unfortuatley your responsability until they are 18.

they can leave before that - who is going to stop them anyway lets face it.

[jollyhollymum]

Custy, I love you. Please can he come and live at your house?!How old is your son? Mine got GSCE's at school. applied for college and got in, everyone ran around him helping. Ny DH took him for two interviews and he really was excited about going. Next thing, he didn't want to go, he wanted an apprenticeship. Well, wshen he told my ex (his dad) that he wanted to be a plumber/electrician he went ballistic. He spent thousands of pounds on private education (which my DS was forced into by his dad ) and then he "wastes" it. Me, I'm happy if he's doing SOMETHING, plumbers great, loads of work needs doing here! Took him to the interviews, virtua;lly filled his forms in for him because he's so f..ng half arsed that the first lot he did were like a five year olds. Don't get me wrong, he's not thick. He's a real del-boy IMHO and yes, if he wants top sell let him. BUT he was dealing over E-Bay, even tho he's too young and selling stuff on. Trouble was, he sold stuff and then never bothered to send it. Got my DH blocked on paypal and he was not happy. Had a solicitors letter re unsent goods too! He would sell his sister if she wasn't chained up. I thought, let him try windows, good basic and commission of £50 per call if an interview. I worked out he'd be bringing in £200 week if he was lucky. The window sales people have got him on two contracts, a week in hand and the only cash he has had to date £80 he's gambled. Update, he still hasn't been to the docs but is now phoning on Monday. I've just woken him up for work. He's not a bad kid, just very selfish in some ways and a bit spoilt. The places he's been with his dad! When we went to Turkey, he came in for all meals, like I'd asked but disappeared off in the days, mostly coming in at 12pm when I'd asked. I originally said no-one goes out of the hotel but he made friends with local teens and sat in the markets playing cards and drinking turkish tea. I didn't have a major strop with him because the other kids were having such a great time and it was the first time he'd been abroad. At the airport he had a strop because I asked him to help with rucsacs, he was pulling a case and my LO threw up. Stomed off, went through customs alone and sat sulking!! That's why I think he's too immature to leave and he's still only 16. He can be very charming and loving but my opinion of him is no longer as a golden boy PS If you want to come for Xmas, I do remember, you can come this year!!