What can I say to make her see things more positively?

[themoon66]

The following is an msn conversation with my DD who is at uni... she is skint... i cannot seem to make her understand the concept of living within her means... do I seem unreasonable from this following conversation? (will take out RL names)
She is 'F' and I am 'M'

To set the scenario... she is a 2nd year fashion design student with a part time job in Debenhams paying her £200 a month. She also gets £75 a mont allowance from DH.

Sorry it's long....

FF says:
i owe all my wages out already and i dont get paid til a week on thursday
F says:
and iv still got to get through dec
M says:
who do you owe your wages to??

F says:
friends that have to lend me money
M says:
its all getting very messy it seems.
F says:
i lost my key so i had to get a new one
thats costing me £16
it wouldnt be if i had my loan
i HAD to ask my friends
Dad would of gone crazy if i asked him for like the 100th time this year
M says:
dad says... he gave you 50 quid this week?
F says:
£50 is nothing
Loo roll
Food
Fabric
thread
pattern paper
M says:
nothing??? I beg to differ... works out at 10 quid a day for every working day
F says:
sketch books
yeah fashion magazines are £5 a pop
phone credit
top -up on my print card
M says:
stop using your phone dad says
M says:
get the printer from grandma's garage
F says:
u and dad do a degree and you'll understand
M says:
dad says he has done degree.... you cheeky monkey
F says:
yeah like 50 years ago
M says:
dad is now going..... ooooh bitch!
F says:
The fashion department has no money given to it by the uni
M says:
why?
F says:
i wish i new
M says:
ask them what the fees are for then.
F says:
yeah jsut like that
i can ask til im blue the face - still have to buy everything to be able to past this degree
M says:
so what do you suggest then?
F says:
i dont know mum - i just want my loan
its really pissing me off and its getting me down more and more every day
M says:
I know sweetie.... but i dont know what to suggest.
F says:
i walking around with one heel on a boot because i cant afford to get them reheeled -and they are my only waterproof foot wear
i freeze everyday because i cant even afford a £40 winter coat
M says:
well i took you to buy a coat and you wouldnt have one!
F says:
did u look at them they were granny coats
you'd would jsut been wasting your money
M says:
but even granny coats stop you freezing
M says:
ok... you dont like the coats.... how about thermal vests?
F says:
doesnt matter u dont understand
M says:
nobody can see them... no fashion issues
M says:
how much? dad says
F says:
how much what
M says:
ok.... soooo......
think back... what have you spent this month on course materials (everything) plus food?
F says:
ok
£50/60 on fabric (i know its a lot but im makin a coat and coat fabric isnt cheap)
£40 on food + about £5/10 on milk bread and fruit
£10 on pattern paper
£60 on fancy paper/ribbon etc... for sketch books
£50 on myself - like always and face cream shampoo body wash toothpast spot cream, face wash, deodorant
M says:
dad bought you sketch books didnt he?
F says:
no
M says:
dad is doing calculations now
F says:
not the ones that u had in
M says:
how much does debenhams pay you a month?
F says:
£200 a month
M says:
plus 75 from dad
you are spending 220 a month..... but you are getting 275 coming in.... are you forgetting something??
F says:
oh yeah living mum!
M says:
Nooo.... living is what you just set out above for us... food etc
F says:
no u said course and food
M says:
food is living
F says:
ok so i eat food and sit on my own in my room in my house and see no- one
i hate to say it mum but im a people person
M says:
seeing people doesnt cost money
F says:
yes i do but they dont just sit in .
i would be dead by now
M says:
oh miss drama queen
M says:
Oh F... I love you.... it's my fault... i'm a bad mother... I spoilt you too much
F says:
this is the 3rd night iv spent on my own because i cant afford to do ANYTHING with my freinds
i just dont like being on my own
M says:
3rd night ..... i used to stay in for 3 bloody months when i was skint!!! get real
F says:
im not u
just forget eveything
u clearly dont understand how down its getting me
M says:
yes i understand.... been there, done that
F says:
yeah years ago mum
M says:
time is nothing to do with it
F says:
things are much different now
and BIG thing
me and you arent the same person
M says:
nobody is..... its about living within your means
F says:
ok
M says:
just coz I was skint, and dad was skint and we never went out, doesnt mean we were happy with it like that you know..
F says:
yeah u had each other
iv got no one
M says:
come and sit in this house then, with us
F says:
no one to talk to about my problems or just feeling down
F says:
FORGET IT
F says:
iv tried to explan u you are just not getting me at all
i cant be bothered
M says:
.... you are not getting ME at all. I can sympathise coz ive been there. Dad has been there. Who best to sympathise?
F says:
ok im a spoilt cow and i hate to say it

........ she ended the conversation here and signed out in a sulk... should I give her the money and bail her out (her overdaft is £1,400). I would need to get a loan myself to do this.

[Dior]

Message withdrawn

[themoon66]

It's horrible having msn conversations like this with your own DD, but worse having her screaching on the phone!

[MerlinsBeard]

i wouldn't! how did she manage £50 on deodorant and spot cream? why is she getting £60 worth pf ribbon when its cheaper at the market?

altho i am in a foulmood tonight so my opinion prob not worth anything!

[themoon66]

Thank you so much MN-ers for reading my tedious thread... I feel so much better already! Love you all. x

[Dior]

Message withdrawn

[themoon66]

Thank you Dior.... I was worried I came across as unreasonable on msn. I hope she signed out on me coz she knew I was making sense and she couldn't face the truth!

[Blondie79]

Hi themoon66!
I'm talking from the experience of going to uni recently.
I think perhaps she could budget better but and this is a big but socialising is a big part of uni. The pressure and hard work of a degree can take its toll and if its a god forsaken place where like I went to Uni then it will be v depressing being stuck in constantly.
I had a part time job for all of my years at uni and it was bloody hard work combining the 2 but I am still in debt. I think that your daughter should be praised for trying to go some way to supporting herself - a lot of students don't.
However, I don't think that you should clear her overdraft. Being at Uni has taught me to budget a lot more efficiently and I think in the long run it will do her good.

[themoon66]

Blondie... which city were you in? DD is in Lincoln, which is only 15 miles from home. She has to live in the city because public transport from our village is so crap, ie: non-existent.

[Dior]

Message withdrawn

[Blondie79]

I was in Luton - and in hindsight I sometimes think that Iwould have been better staying at home and going to a uni nearby. However I wouldn't have learned as much as I did about looking after myself and both my parents think that it really benefitted me in regards to coping with everyday problems such as finances.
Does she come home often?

[themoon66]

The winter coat issue pissed me off to be honest. I took her round town last weekend specifically to buy her a warm coat, but none were 'fashionable' enough. I think my suggestion of a thermal vest to keep out the cold was reasonable alterative. Bloody kids eh? Love em, but they drive you into the nut house. Wish I was still at the whingeing about her not breast feeding properly stage!!

[themoon66]

Blondie... she is 15 miles away and has not been home since last May !!!

[Blondie79]

Do you pay her rent for her - you could always suggest to her that if she is that desperate for money she could move back home for her final year and instead of paying for her rent you could buy her a cheap car and she could commute - then she wouldn't have to buy food.

[themoon66]

Blondie... yes, we paid her rent... £900 up front in September, which sees her through till Xmas break. We will have to fork out another £900 in January!

[themoon66]

She doesn't drive. She did actually ask for driving lessons for her 21st birthday, which isnt for another year.

[Blondie79]

I don't know what else to suggest - I do understand though how she feels I wouldn't go back to Uni if you paid me and I generally had a very good time there. But to be honest if it was that bad I would be going home as often as possible.

[themoon66]

Thank you for your posts Blondie.... at least I know she isn't just being a Drama Queen!

[edam]

I'm sure you are being reasonable but I also think she does need a 'going out and having fun' budget - socialising is an important part of being a student. Friendship is a basic human need and when you are a student, you won't get very far if you have to sit in every night.

(I paid my own way through university and it was bloody hard, tbh.)

[themoon66]

Oh dear... it is so difficult. If I hand over money for going out it feels wrong to me.. should I be handing over money for drink and (possibly) cigarettes too? On the one hand I feel for her, but then the puritanical side of me clicks in, which thinks.... I didn't have luxuries like a social life when I was skint and your age young lady... bla bla.... argh.

Like i said earlier... wish I was still at the stage with her of being able to post on the breastfeeding threads.... issues like that seem like easy-street these days...

[mytwopenceworth]

i wouldnt help tbh. not money. i might go over with a food parcel if she hadnt eaten for a week!! point is, look at young people today - bail me out help me sort out my problems!! they just cant make it in life! living at home until they are 35! going cap in hand to mum and dad. i really think that people need to learn to stand alone. and that means going thru hard times. that means living on beans on toast! (i speak from experience, i had to make it on my own and it was hard, but i did it)

if she cant afford to go out, tough luck. she has a choice, find a different job, work a few more hours, take another look at her budget.

i just feel its not helping them to bail them out because its not teaching them independence. they also have to learn they cant always have everything they want.

we've got a generation of people who will still be living at home at 40, with their mum and dad giving them pocket money and houskeeping and taxi services!

i wouldnt bother trying to make her see things more positively, id just say life is tough, you have to work hard, good luck, feel free to pop over for a cuppa and a chat.

sometimes you have to throw someone in the middle of the river or they'll never learn to swim.

[themoon66]

MTPW.... I hope I kind of got that across in my msn conversation with her... that me and her dad have suffered hard times and got through it... but I feel (from that msn convo) that she wasn't listening to me. I do agree about the hardship being good for her in the long run. And I have actually eaten beans on toast for two Xmas dinners myself!

Thank you all for your posts of support and help.... it's nice to know that I AM doing to the right thing in being a little bit hard at times.

[Saturn74]

I had to smile at the phrase:
"i hate to say it mum but im a people person"

I know it's hard, but I wouldn't send any more money. Perhaps you could suggest that your DD gets a waitressing job instead of / in addition to the one she currently has.

That way she can use her skills as a 'people person' to get tips on top of her basic wage.

It must be really tricky to say no, though, but I do think she has to become more financially independant of you.

[themoon66]

HC... she had a waitressing/bar job on Fridays, saturdays and odd evenings in the week. She had to give this up recently as she was getting so behind on coursework for her degree. She kept on the Debenhams job as it is in fashion and looks good for her CV. Also, they have been good about providing her with work experience at head office, shadowing the fashion buyers and such.

She is a hard working kid, to give her credit where it is due.... I'm just finding it very hard to stand back and let her get on with 'learning life' at the moment IYSWIM.

[edam]

Good point re waitressing job themoon - there are statistics about people who have too many jobs at university getting lower grades. I would guess fashion involves a lot of hours with the practical work (and sounds bloody expensive what with having to buy your own materials). I'd cut her a tiny bit of slack - and that is coming from someone who had to pay their own way (with support from then-dp now dh - bless him, he sold his record collection to help me out). I had both part-time jobs and work experience in the days before bloody top-up fees - no idea how I would have managed now.

[themoon66]

DH has now come up with the idea of electronically transferring her a set amount of money into her account on Monday mornings. That way he thinks we will avoid the panicky random requests for large amounts.

At the moment he is transferring her 75 quid a month at the end of the month when he gets paid. We thought a more realistic amount might be 20 every monday morning. It might be easier for her to budget on a weekly basis, rather than monthly.

How does everyone else manage to fund kids at university?? It's a mystery to me.

If we were a bit worse off, she would get help from the government, and if we were wealthier we could fund her with ease. We seem to fall between the two... no-mans land.