15 year old DD wants to go vegan

[MrsMiniver]

I don't know if this is just a phase but DD seems determined to start following a vegan diet because she's horrified by the way animals are treated (be it for meat or dairy). I'd be ok if she opted for vegetarianism but I'm concerned about her not getting enough calcium, protein etc in a vegan diet.

Has anyone else experienced this or are vegan themselves? Whilst I do share some of her concerns about animal welfare and have been sympathetic, I've also pointed out that there might be health implications.

[rogueantimatter]

I wonder if she has seen information about welfare in other countries; animal welfare in Britain is much better than in most other countries.

What about eating organic animal products? Perhaps she'd consider that. If you buy organic you will increase demand for it and help to protect the environment.

Or fish which haven't been farmed?

She'd have to be very careful to eat well if she went vegan in order to get enough iron and calcium and would have to take a B12 supplement. And as it's very carb heavy she'd have to be careful to eat wholegrains and avoid eating too much sugar.

[BuildYourOwnSnowman]

Has she done any research? It's fine for her to want to be vegan but she can't expect you to learn about it and cook appropriately for her.

She needs to come to you with her suggestions etc - I'm sure there will be vegans along in a minute to help you out too!

[cdtaylornats]

Get her to write a list of acceptable food, to go through her wardrobe and get rid of all wool and leather. Also get her to research her cosmetics and remove any with animal ingredients or which have been animal tested.

[LadyPlumpington]

she can't expect you to learn about it and cook appropriately for her.

she's 15!!

op, I'm vegan and have been for 9 months now. I'm 33 so not in my actively growing years looks at belly ruefully but I think your daughter will be ok.

Wrt to protein, many vegans claim you don't really need any and that it's all a ploy by health food companies and blah blah blah. As a scientist I disagree with them. The general guide is to consume 0.8g protein per kilo of bodyweight per day for optimal health. I often consume less than this because I'm not very diligent but it is perfectly doable.

Lentils, tofu, soy beans, beans of all types are my staples, and of course lots and lots of fruit/veg/pulses. There are lots of substitute dairy-free spreads, milks, even cheeses (some better than others) and Linda McCartney does vegan sausages.

Do you know anyone who keeps their own chickens? I will eat home-reared chicken eggs if they're available because I'm vegan on animal welfare grounds; if they have excellent welfare (and for me home-reared is the only thing I consider to be reliable in terms of welfare standards) then I'm happy (and presumably so are the chickens).

There are vegan recipes on BBC Good Food and loads more places too.

As for household harmony, my DH and kids are omnivores and they all muddle along. DS2 says 'Mummy no like cow milk' gravely as he munches on his breakfast cow milk cornflakes. DH says it's actually great to live with a vegan as it means someone is paying close attention to creating lovely veg dishes!

Good luck to your DD

[LadyPlumpington]

Oh and if she takes a vegan multivitamin supplement (they do them at Holland and Barrett) you get your B12 RDA from that. Alternatively, they sell Engevita yeast extract with added B12 at some vegan delis (or online) and it's a popular ingredient in many vegan substitute dishes.

[LadyPlumpington]

I'm not commandeering your thread, honest. This is a useful list of complete proteins (i.e. meals with all essential amino acids) that is useful to have if you're vegan.

[BuildYourOwnSnowman]

I meant she can't make a decision about er diet and expect her mum to just deal with it for her. At 15 she is old enough to research and find out what she can eat and discuss what her mum is willing to cook.

When I turned vegetarian my mum pointed out that she wasn't running a restaurant and whilst she would support it I would eat what I was given! She made me research suitable protein alternatives etc

[FeelingSmurfy]

I agree with getting her to help with cooking, finding recipes, shopping (label checking can triple the shopping time easily until you get to know the basics that you buy every week!) Especially with the summer holidays coming up. This isn't to try and put her off but its going to add to your workload and at 15 she is old enough to take some of that on for herself.

Maybe ask her to find some recipes that the whole family would eat, and to batch cook with you one day during weekend and freeze so that when you have meals that she can't eat there is something ready to just be thrown in. A basic roast dinner could be vegan quite easily by replacing the meat with a vegan sausage and using oil for roast potatoes not butter, get a vegan gravy powder and you are sorted.

[FeelingSmurfy]

I disagree with the comment about leather, maybe discuss about checking for animal testing in future products and not buying any more leather, but a lot of vegans don't avoid leather. I wouldn't bring this up unless she does, you don't want her going OTT about it all and worrying if she sits on a leather sofa etc (as a friend of mine did...)

If she does bring up the animal testing thing then maybe ask her to check the household products and suggest alternatives, this will show that you are all supporting her even if you don't go vegan yourselves. If she was doing all of the research then it wouldn't be any extra work for you but I really think it would help her feel supported

I would also make it clear from the start that you will all support her and not make a big deal out of what she is eating BUT she has to agree not to say anything to try and put the rest of the family off their food/drinks - this will also be good lesson for while out and about, her friends may not be so friendly if she starts lecturing them about eating a burger

[LadyPlumpington]

Oh she's definitely old enough to make an intellectual and practical contribution, I just thought she was a bit young to be left to get on with it entirely alone.

Wrt leather - I don't buy it anymore but still sit on our leather sofa because, well, the cow's dead now I won't increase consumer demand for leather though.

I would also make it clear from the start that you will all support her and not make a big deal out of what she is eating BUT she has to agree not to say anything to try and put the rest of the family off their food/drinks - YY to this. I've deliberately tried to be open and mock my own choices and not judge anyone else's and so far don't seem to have lost any friends. I used to say 'I started feeling a bit twitchy about animal welfare standards' when anybody asked me about my reasons and they'd usually nod and hastily change the subject whilst hiding their sandwiches

I think that most meat-eaters aren't thrilled about cruelty to animals either and would prefer the general welfare level to increase, so we're sort of on the same page really - I just choose the extreme option of cutting it out altogether.

[Deeznutz]

I wouldn't worry about her not getting enough nutrients. If she eats a varied, healthy diet she'll be fine. Dairy replacements are everywhere nowadays and they are fortified. Coconut milk is particularly delicious and you can use it in loads of recipes.

Eating out can be tricky but even Wetherspoons do a vegan chickpea and spinach curry ( it's vegan if you drop the naan).

You can make loads of cookies/cakes vegan by replacing the egg with baking powder and using the Pure brand of spread and coconut milk for liquid.

The Jamie Oliver site has a few good recipes that are vegan as does bbc food. The chickpea burgers are good.One of them is a curry base you make up and can be frozen in batches which is helpful as cooking from scratch is time consuming. Co-op is very vegan friendly. Their own brand cleaning/toiletries often state they are vegan and a lot of their in store branded products are such as crackers and biscuits. Original Source shower gels are often vegan too and you can get them everywhere. Vegan pâté is a helpful store cupboard thing. Suma is good for bulk-buying staples.

Re cosmetics- a lot of Barry M is vegan and Beauty without Cruelty is still available.

Delicious Ella might provide some inspiration.

I have a vegan daughter and I have approached it like having a child with a dairy allergy.

[LadyPlumpington]

I've found Sainsburys to be quite good (esp with vegan wine)! Maybe she's a little young for that

[rogueantimatter]

There are loads of excellent sources of info and recipes but she'll have to be organised with lunches and snacks or she'll end up having an unbalanced diet.

[Backforthis]

How is her BMI? Has she been losing weight or been restricting her diet? Worth asking because 'going vegan' can be used as cover by those with issues around eating as a way of avoiding food and restricting intake without suspicion.

If you're happy this is an ethical choice and she is willing to put in the effort into meal planning and taking supplements she can get all the nutrition she needs.

[MrsMiniver]

Wow, thank you all so much for your input...much food (!) for thought.
I'm making it my business to research this too and have been especially appalled by what I've found out about the dairy industry (trouble is I just love cow's milk and natural yoghurt).

Anyway, if she's prepared to get involved with food shopping (a task she's so far avoided at all costs), meal planning and some cooking, then we'll give it a go. LadyPlump do tell me what animal products are in wine!

[LadyPlumpington]

www.peta.org/about-peta/faq/is-wine-vegan/

veganproducts.org/drinks.html

"The majority of people are unaware that wine, although made from grapes, may have been made using animal-derived products. During the winemaking process, the liquid is filtered through substances called “fining agents.” This process is used to remove protein, yeast, cloudiness, “off” flavors and colorings, and other organic particles."

"Popular animal-derived fining agents used in the production of wine include blood and bone marrow, casein (milk protein), chitin (fiber from crustacean shells), egg albumen (derived from egg whites), fish oil, gelatin (protein from boiling animal parts), and isinglass (gelatin from fish bladder membranes)."

It usually mentions the milk, egg and sulphites on the back of wine bottles but not blood or gelatin

Sainsburys' own wines are largely vegan and tell you so. Most other wines aren't. Beers vary but many bottled ones are vegan and cask ones are not.

I second the site's recommendation for Barnivore - it is brilliant.

[BuildYourOwnSnowman]

Well there are lots of things I've discovered my veggie friends didn't realise were veggie/vegan such as cheese and fresh pasta

[Deeznutz]

Some additional thoughts-

I hate soya milk personally but really like hazelnut milk and coconut milk. With coconut milk I often make porridge adding a bit of dessicated coconut and it tastes wonderful. Mumsnet granola made with Pure is nutritionally dense if you add lots of seeds and dried fruit. You can make a batch and then therei is always something to hand for snacks. Hazelnut milk tastes great in coffee and in cakes.

Alpro vanilla yogurt in a tub from the chilled bit in the supermarket tastes better than cows milk and is the texture of Greek yoghurt. Really good to have on hand to add to granola or other deserts. alpro custard is good too.

I make a lot of bread ( in the bread maker so it's effortless) and make sure it's full of seeds. Pop on some nut butters and a glass of coconut milk and it's a good breakfast. Nigella seeds make bread divine.

Soups are a good way of cramming loads of good stuff in and most can be stored. Vegan vecon stock adds loads of flavour to otherwise bland dishes.Hummus is easy and you can vary that with additional stuff like olives.

Indian flatbreads are quick to make and can be batch made. We make a lot of curries and they are always welcomed.

One easy thing to do for lunches etc is to make tortilla chips by cutting tortillas into triangles, coating lightly in oil and then popping them in the oven until they crisp up. They go really well with avocado dip,hummus and salsa.

Some alcohol isn't vegan as it is filtered through isinglass (fish bladders).

It is much easier to be vegan nowadays than it was when I was one as a student. Every supermarket has the basics. Also Swedish Glacé ice cream is in every supermarket nowadays and my other children prefer it to dairy.

Lots of vegetables have a fair amount of protein. Cauliflower and broccoli are particularly good. Mash made with just cauliflower and spread is really nice as a side dish to some vegan burgers.vegan satay stirfry is also nutritionally dense.

Once you get into a rhythm with it between you it will be a breeze.

[rogueantimatter]

Peas and mushrooms are another reasonable source of plant protein.

The best is quinoa.

[Beesandbutterflies]

We have similar concerns re animal welfare and I am ovo-vegetarian, dc and dh pescatarian. It's definitely doable and we don't worry overly about having a high protein diet as it doesn't seem necessary, there are lots of non meat/non dairy sources of protein. Beans, peas, lentils etc. for a while we saw a dietitian because dd had a dairy allergy and she was happy with her diet/no concerns with a dairy free vegetarian diet (and she doesn't have eggs every day!)

I just wanted to completely disagree with rogueantimatter, sorry!! Organic has absolutely nothing to do with welfare, in fact welfare is often worse for those animals because antibiotics/other medical care or drugs they need is withheld because then it wouldn't be 'organic'. Organic products are aimed at the human health benefits not the animals.

[rogueantimatter]

Oh! that's disappointing to hear. Are you sure? My understanding is that antibiotics are permitted for use if necessary in organic livestock but are not routinely used? I assume organically reared animals are free-range.

What about lamb/mutton? When I see sheep in the fields and hills (wandering over the roads of rural Scotland) they seem carefree? (I admit to having an agenda here - I'd eat much less animal protein if I didn't have so many food sensitivities including pulses and nuts. I don't eat egg or dairy anyway as they make me sick.)

[rogueantimatter]

The soil association prides itself on high standards of animal welfare.

[Beesandbutterflies]

Depends on the scheme but doesn't have to be free range sadly. Organic does not = high welfare at all. The antibiotics thing is also something that varies. I work with animals and have friends in the farming sector. They have big concerns about welfare on organic farms

[MrsMiniver]

Bees is right I'm afraid, organic is for our benefit (apparently), not the poor animals! Well, I'm bracing myself for a vegan food shop tomorrow, thanks for the tips!

[newgirl]

I think we could all eat more vegan food - I'm worried though about a 15 year old pos using this as a way of managing her eating. Hopefully no problems but felt it worth flagging ip