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Why can't we get funding for a BTEC level 5 and is it possible to get funding for A levels after a BTEC level 5?

42 replies

gherkin21 · 23/10/2014 05:08

Sorry, this is an odd question. My DS is taking GCSEs next year and is predicted to get high grades. However, he says he doesn't want to stay at school and take A levels. Instead, he is keen to take a performing arts qualification at a specialist college, which is a one year course at BTEC level 5.

However, apparently we have to pay for the course, even though DS will be 16 when starting the course, whereas the less advanced course is free. Why is this and is there any way round it?

Also, apparently the BTEC 5 is the equivalent of 240 UCAS points, so he may need to top up with a couple of A levels to gain a place at university, if he eventually decides that he wants to go. Could he then go back to school/college and would this be funded (bearing in mind that youngsters are meant to be in full time education until they are 18).

Any experience of this or advice would be very welcome.

OP posts:
Heyho111 · 23/10/2014 07:11

He probably would be better doing a level drama and two other a levels. He could then go onto a performing arts uni. After one year out of school he could start again with a levels at college but that's this area. Level 3 BTEC is the equivalent of 3 a levels. So level 5 is like uni which we have to pay for. Tbh I would be concerned that they would take him on a course without all the qualifications that build up to it. He should be missing vital knowledge skills if you skip qualifications. In this area you gave to have equivalent qualifications of the level below to get on a course.

gherkin21 · 23/10/2014 09:32

Thanks Heyho, that's sensible advice, I clearly need to look into it carefully.

OP posts:
titchy · 23/10/2014 16:15

It can't be level 5 if it carries UCAS points - they're only for level 3 courses.

titchy · 23/10/2014 16:16

Actually do they mean 240 CATS Points? That would be level 5, and as heyho says is equivalent to the first two years of a degree programme, and not suitable for a 16 year old.

Picturesinthefirelight · 23/10/2014 16:30

It's the difference between further education (Level 4) & higher Education (Levels 5 & 6)

I take it the institution he wants to apply to is a private college with no access to DaDa funding?

In fact have you checked it is a Btec diploma he is planning on doing & nor the Trinity Guildhall Professional Diploma?

I hate to tell you that you also won't be eligible for Child Benefit either.

Heyho - it's very common in performing arts for 16 year olds to straight into Level 6 qualifications (more common in Dance & Musical Theatre than drama)

duhgldiuhfdsli · 23/10/2014 16:38

A BTEC Level 5 is equivalent to a foundation degree, and is an HND in old money.

I don't know anything about performing arts, but I'd be slightly surprised if this could be completed in a year, as you imply. It isn't possible to do an HND in a year, starting from GCSEs, surely?

KatyMac · 23/10/2014 16:43

Performing level 6 takes 3 years, is not funded (normally)

Not sure about level 5 & tbh I have done a lot of Performing Arts College research - if you want to PM me with the college I'll let you know what I think

Picturesinthefirelight · 23/10/2014 16:45

From investigating further the Btec Level 5 diploma is the old HND & most institutions offer it funded by the Student Loans system.

It's a minimum 2 year course which can be topped up to a degree.

KatyMac · 23/10/2014 16:45

Hi Pictures didn't realise you were here already - gerkin, Picturesinthefirelight probably knows more than me about it all - although depending on the college I may have visited it recently (I only visited about 14 of them ))

Picturesinthefirelight · 23/10/2014 16:46

Likewise if you PM me the name of the college ill have a look (dh teaches in this sector & dd will be applying at 16.

It's possible to start a degree (in classical ballet) at 16!

Picturesinthefirelight · 23/10/2014 16:47

I don't know Katy - I reckon we probably both have too much knowledge in this area for our own good!

Riverland · 23/10/2014 16:48

If a Btec is in a totally new subject, does the student have to start at level 2?

KatyMac · 23/10/2014 16:51

Pictures - quite possibly - my latest angst is a nightmare

Riverland - no, if you have good GCSEs you can normally/often start at level 3 & I did a level 6 after a degree - it does depend upon the subject

Spindarella · 23/10/2014 16:51

As well as the level of qualification you have to look at how fat it is. For example at Level Three you can do 1, 2, 3, or 4 A levels. No one wanting to go to uni would do just one. Similarly you can do different sized diplomas which although they are all the same level contain different numbers of units. To be the equivalent of 3 a levels you're looking at a National Diploma.

The funding issue is like saying why are A levels funded but not a degree?

Picturesinthefirelight · 23/10/2014 16:52

No, Level 2 is GCSE level & there are many many Btec subjects that a school would not offer.

For example if dd hasn't gone to vocational school the high school she would have gone to doesn't offer drama or dance gcse.

Spindarella · 23/10/2014 16:54

Also, just for more context I'm doing a level 5 course at the moment funded by my employer. It's the same standard as the "old money" hnd but not as broad - we were told it's the equivalent of two modules of an undergraduate degree.

Look at fatness of qualification (or study programme to use current terminology) and not just the level.

KatyMac · 23/10/2014 17:00

I think the one my DD is hoping to do (& pictures' DD) is about 2 years of a degree

Riverland · 23/10/2014 17:06

Fatness! This is very new to me, thankyou for explaining.

If a 16 year old starts Btec level 2, will she get funding to study for three years, to have the qualifications to go on to do a degree? Or is it possible to start at level 2 and be ready for uni application in two years?

Picturesinthefirelight · 23/10/2014 17:11

Think of Level 2 as gcse equivalent. If you fail your gcses you can spend a year retaking them do A levels. It's when you are older than 19 the problems start.

So you can do a 1 year Level 2 course followed by a 2 year Level 3 course.

You can't apply to uni with only a level 2 qualification

(None of the above applies to professional performing arts courses where it's more about training to do the job than applying to uni)

Picturesinthefirelight · 23/10/2014 17:14

And in terms of fatness. A level 2 course can be worth varying numbers of gcse equivalents.

Riverland · 23/10/2014 17:18

Thankyou. Is the fatness to do with number of units covered or the mark you get, or both? Is 18 units standard?

Picturesinthefirelight · 23/10/2014 17:38

It's how many credits the qualification has.

One GCSE is worth 120 credits
One AS Level is 180 credits & an A Level is 360

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Riverland · 23/10/2014 18:11

Ah, I see! Thankyou. Credits, not units!

I appreciate your input, feel a bit clearer now. Sorry to thread jack, OP!

gherkin21 · 24/10/2014 05:53

Thanks for all of your replies and I have pm'd Katy and Pictures.

The course is a one year intensive BTEC level 5/Professional Diploma in Music at a specialist college. My DH found some document on line which said that it was the equivalent of 240 UCAS points, but I'm not sure where it came from. I will ask him. It is all rather confusing with the different systems/grades/points/credits etc.

OP posts:
KatyMac · 24/10/2014 08:01

it's 240 credits like a Foundation degree

He might be good enough to skip the intermediate steps - but most 16 year olds benefit for the intervening steps (I thought DD wouldn't need a mid level course & I was wrong - she has massively benefited from hers)

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