Please, some advice, don't know where to turn with 16 yr old daughter

[febel]

Please can someone offer some advice. Our relationship with our youngest daughter is in tatters and has ended this morning with H , who has a VERY slow fuse, just losing his temper and shouting at her so much he was shaking. I might add this is VERY rare. She is insolent and selfish, and I am told by DH and her sisters (who have in the main left home now, although the middle one is due back from local uni at beginning of July)that I let her get away with stuff and spoil her. She either goes out straight from 6th form college and comes in about 9pm (as in doesn't come home at all from when she leaves at 8am in the morning) or on the rare occassion she comes in, just goes straight to her room and is on her i pad all evening. I have always taken pride in the good relationship I have with her sisters, and it upsets me more than I can say that I seem to have no relationship with her. I have tried to talk to her about it and she is eiother arsey or just yawns in my fact. She says I nag her (I asked her to pick a towel up off the floor on Sunday, then an hour later asked her again as it was still there. She knows to do this but doesn't bother...hubby says she is all about control)
I am sitting here in tears as once again we have had a massive blow up...seems to happen on a regular basis, she says not PMT but I do wonder but she refuses to take anything, herbal or otherwise to help.

Are we being unreasonable, eg: this morning, after already having had words cos she got up out of wrong side of bed, when we ask her not to play piano for a few minutes(a rare occasion in itself but being used as a time filler before the bus to college went) cos DH was trying to listen to something she just ignored us totally. After asking three times DH lost his temper and went in shouting at her as he couldn't hear what he was trying to listen to. She screams back and storms out of the house in tears and I feel awful...again. She is going for CBT, as am I as I feel suicidal at times (I wouldn't actually do it as have seen the mess it leaves behind as both family member and close friend committed suicide) and so depressed a lot of the time and upset because of the angst and upset with her. I feel like nothing at times becasue she can be so very nasty to me....but still expect me to pay for Alton Towers for her birthday, to get her there and back, to ferry her around, to pay for clothes etc

Have I just been very lucky with my elder two girls, who are 22 and 24? Although to be honest, part of the problem I feel with her is the internet..and all the entertainment it provides and influences it can exert both though social networking and other sites.

Please advise someone..be gentle though as I am feeling very fragile now. I don't know how to move forward...again..and this happens frequently...we were lucky to get CBT for her as at nearly 17 she is in a black hole re care and advice

[somedizzywhore1804]

This may not apply here but if she hasn't always been trouble it could just be a really fucking awful phase.

I was such a good kid- placid, did everything I was told, swotty at school and an absolute model daughter. Then I got to sixth form, found boyfriends and White Lightening and became the devil child. Out drinking all the time, having liaisons with dodgy lads, lying about where I was going, quitting my weekend job....Fair play to my parents that they didn't move and not tell me where they'd gone

The good news is I went off to uni (with my parents throwing a parade after me, lol) and came back the next summer a normal human again. I didn't fuck my life up. I can only assume it was the heady mix of hormones and cider along with the freedom of college that made me temporarily evil.

[LastingLight]

I think you need to communicate to her that as a member of your family she has certain rights and privileges (a roof over her head, food, money for transport, clothes, luxuries). She also has certain obligations (being civil, picking up after herself, studying to get acceptable grades etc.) If she doesn't fulfill her obligations then there is no reason for you to keep on paying for her privileges. It's a two way street.

Could her therapist maybe see the whole family together for a few sessions to mediate?

[headlesslambrini]

Stop comparing her to her sisters for a start. She is an individual. She got out of the wrong side of the bed probably because she is tired. Switch wifi off at 11pm or download software which will block her devices within set times.

If rude then treat her as you did when a toddler -say please or you dont have it etc. Spend time with her doing things which she is interested in - shopping, walking, dancing etc let her chose it. You cant rebuild your relationship if you are in different rooms / places.

Sorry about the 'tone' of this post, am on phone and in work!

[BuzzLightbulb]

Ah, see my thread below....

You are in the same place as us. DP is in shreds over 16 yr old who's behaviour is akin to your daugters but up a level or two.

It is hard to understand the switch, and every now and then there's a glimmer of light - ours has just been made a prefect at school, a responsibility completely at odds with her attitude at home.

I should read my own advice sometimes because this has reminded me or an article I read which explained how teenage brain development affects their cognitive skills.

Apparently they really can only concentrate on one thing, and often a very small thing, at a time. Which is why when you repeatedly ask them to do something when they're 'busy' they can turn around and say they didn't hear you.

Because they didn't, it's as simple as that.

The other stuff though, about being late home, perhaps a chat about impact on other people in the house, good manners to let parents know etc.

'Responsible freedom' ?

[adeucalione]

You sound like a lovely mum and I'm sure that she will come out of this phase in time and feel awful about how she treated you.

In the meantime I do wonder whether there might be something in the fact that your DH and other DC all agree that you spoil her. I say this because what jumps out at me from your post is the fact that you seem to be making excuses for her behaviour - offering herbal tea for PMT (which she refuses) and mentioning the internet as something almost malign in her life.

So for that reason I think that LastingLight's advice is spot on - she is almost an adult and sharing your home, so privileges from now on are dependent on good behaviour.

I would also perfect a slightly amused look every time she tantrums rather than offering tea and sympathy. It won't do her any harm at all to learn that even your patience isn't limitless.

And pick your battles. It shouldn't matter if she comes home at 9pm if she's told you where she's going and that she won't be home for dinner, and it shouldn't matter if she spends all evening in her room talking to her friends. Just make your company a place she wants to be, and she'll come back to you.

[Charlotteamanda1]

She needs to be given some independence. A child's room is their sanctuary. Let her have her bedroom. By that I mean she is in charge of it - tidying, cleaning. Putting washing in the basket. This is going to be hard for you. You don't ask her to tidy it, you don't clean it . You don't take washing out of her room. You don't put clean clothes away you let her do it. And you don't ask her to do it - just shut the door.
It will be a pit. She will run and of clothes and be stuck. You don't help her. Just say if they were in the basket they would have been washed. You need to tell her your letting her be in charge of her room.
Second help her find a weekend job that really helps them to grow up and mature.
Good luck it's going to be a long couple of years.

[chocoluvva]

It would definitely be worth getting her to take a supplement for women of child-bearing age. It might not make any difference to her behaviour but it definitely won't hurt.

Don't take her behaviour personally. Her brain development is at the stage where she is unable to empathise or consider the consequences of her actions.

IME almost all teenagers leave damp towels on the floor. I remember doing it myself and my mum 'nagging' me about it. I used to think she was being unreasonable and if it bothered her that much she should just pick it up herself . That's no practical help but I do think it's very common/normal.

Remind her that adults who share a home let each other know if they're not going to be in for dinner.

Ignore any minor eye-rolling/muttering etc and refuse to keep going over arguments. Just say your piece calmly then walk away. Easier said than done but it gets easier with practice.

Also say nice things to her whenever you get the opportunity. Wish her a good day at school etc. Tell her she looks nice/whatever.

I sympathise. It's very trying. Do something nice for yourself and try to forget about her behaviour.

[hamptoncourt]

She sounds pretty "normal" to me tbh.

From what you have written it sounds like DH has overreacted and you are taking it all terribly to heart. I can hear the pain and anguish in your post but I think you need to lighten up a bit.

I don't know any teens who don't go out from college and then sit in their rooms on the internet.

I think you and she will be far happier if you disengage a bit and just leave her to her own resources. Pull her up on it if she is rude, but try not to cause too much drama and let her have her space.

Don't put yourself out by running around after her with lifts or doing special things for her if she isn't being nice to you, then you won't feel so angry. I agree with choco re forgetting about her and doing something nice for yourself

Good luck!!

[Bonsoir]

I think a lot of parents of teenagers fail to see that their "children" have grown up and don't give them the space and support they need...

[kitchensinkmum]

From experience I think 15 to 16 is the very hardest time for if you have girls. Just try to pick your battles. It's really hard but try to stay friends with her. It's so hard for her too. It's not easy to get them talking about how they feel but this is the key . She needs to come home after school, do homework and be part of the family . Tougher times ahead I think but they usually come good in the end . Sorry this probs int very helpful but I have total empathy

[VerityWaves]

Sorry I don't see what she's done wrong

[peggyundercrackers]

I'm with some of the others - going out after college and coming in at 9:00 seems normal - at least she's coming home at a reasonable time... Sitting in her room on her iPad seems normal for a teenager too ime. I think you need to lighten up a bit and give her a bit of space as she has grown up a bit now.

[bigTillyMint]

Sympathies, OP - IMHE, teenage girls can be such hard work!
I agree with the others above - she sounds pretty much like DD(nearly 15) and most other teen girls I know the mums of!

Perhaps your older two were just very sensible and polite, etc? DD was an angel up until she turned 14 and it has been a very tricky year for us all adjusting to her wanting to reinvent herself and grow up.

It is a really hard time for us as well as them - we have to back right off with managing their lives, but be there to support them when they need it. It is a period of big readjustments for everyone

[mathanxiety]

How much are your other DDs and your DH criticising you about 'spoiling' youngest DD?

Is youngest DD aware of what they are saying about her behind her back so to speak?

I think you need to tell them to mind their own business tbh. It's not ok for older siblings to butt into what a parent is doing with a younger sibling. It sounds as if the whole lot of you are somewhat enmeshed, and also as if everyone is used to dumping on you with little respect for your feelings or for boundaries.

I second all the advice to back off a bit and to consider the idea that DD simply doesn't hear a lot of what is said to her. Teenagers, bot girls and boys, live in their own bubbles. They can get completely engaged in their own thoughts to the extent that details like keeping rooms clean, picking up towels, etc, go by the wayside. Their minds really are elsewhere. Likewise, if someone is playing a piano piece it is really unreasonable to ask them to stop immediately. The instinct to focus intently and finish it is too strong. A teen who plays piano before heading out to school in the morning may be trying to quell school related anxiety or kick her brain into gear. I had a friend who used to come downstairs and play the piano furiously when she got frustrated with maths homework.. Teens also need their own cave to retreat into, some more than others. Maybe your older DDs weren't exactly like this -- but as advised above, comparison isn't a good idea.

Don't try to get decent behaviour out of her by jumping when she commands or making excuses for her behaviour. It doesn't work that way. Very often, mum gets turned into a bin into whom is dumped teen anger and edginess that can't be expressed in school or within a group of friends. It's important for you to stand up for yourself and not to accept rudeness or meanness towards you, or diva tendencies. Anger and rudeness are also used by teens trying to forge their own new identity in the family - breaking out of childhood and into adulthood. The better way to accomplish this is by making her get a job, cutting back significantly on the amount you are spending on her clothing, etc. and on lifts here and there, and giving her some family/home related responsibility.

Does your DD have a part time job? Does she earn any of her own money, or is she still totally dependent on you? I think having her own money and the discipline of showing up for a job and doing what someone else tells her for a few hours on weekends are very good for teens. She really shouldn't be dependent on you for everything at this stage of her life. She also needs to be responsible for planning, cooking and cleaning up after at least one family meal per week and to be doing all her own laundry. You are not doing her any favours by buying her clothes and doing maid or chauffeur duty for her. Ultimately you are not doing yourself any favours either.

[febel]

Thank you so much for all advice, and yes, do feel "enmeshed" at times. Thanks also mathanxiety, I do feel like a bin at times! Or the punch bag! Re damp towels etc, think they are just the final straw not the problem. She does have a job, and tbh I prob do spoil her a little cos she is the last one, but not much, and yes, think her sisters perhaps butt in a bit much...prob cos they have been at home when she has been kicking off and they think it's unreasonable. We have had a bit of history with her on various things too, and I think this all colours stuff. (she can be a good liar let's say so I do have trouble trusting her at times, though I try...until the next time!)
Think I will back off and also choose battles. Half the problem is the way I feel so sensitive about it all, I think we have been very close and over the past few years, understandably as she is growing up and becoming independant, not so close, and she has had a difficult time through senior school which has been rocky at times.
As for her being independant, I will try but she tends to eat at friends houses mostly ,never ever brings them home as she frets about what they will do to entertain themselves at our house...she can be a very anxious person but puts a very hard outer shell over it all. I feel she will kick off massively if I ask her. Re money, although she earns I have offered to pay her for jobs she does for me and wrote a list out, but she didn't want to know.
Will also try not to compare, think I tend to cos she is so very different, and at times so very difficult.