Another one on 13 yo girls!!

[KidsDontThinkImCool]

Maybe we should start an ongoing support thread for parents of 12-15 yo girls? An ongoing thing like they have for other stuff...?

Anyway, aside from the moods and the tantrums and the 'I hate you' etc, the specific problem at the moment is this - DD stays late at school 2 days a week for sports. When she stays late, it means I stay late at work until it's time to collect her and her younger brother has to hang around in the library until she is ready. I don't really mind, except that she is never ready at the agreed time and she is just beginning to take the piss. She wants to stay even later to hang out and supposedly do homework with her friends before coming home. But that means that DS & I also have to wait around for her instead of being at home relaxing or making dinner like I want to be.

If she finishes at 4:15, she wants to be collected at 5. I tell her 4:30 is the latest but she still doesn't turn up until 4:50. There's always some excuse - I had to go back for my bag, I coudln't find my glasses, I had to go to the loo and the nearest ones were closed so I had to walk all the way to the science block etc, etc. I end up sitting around in my car for 20 or 30 minutes every time adn I feel like such a mug.

Her dad & I aren't together anymore and getting help from him is like asking a hive of angry bees to help you get some honey - you might get what you're after but always at a price. I try to discipline her when we get home (if she's 15 minutes late then that's 15 minutes off her bedtime or 1/2 hour less of telly). But when she's in one of her 'moods' nothing i say makes the slightest bit of difference. If I try and take her phone or tablet off her she will literally fight & punch me to get it back. Unless she has a party or something coming up that I can refuse to drive her to, nothing seems to matter to her.

How do I put a stop to this without ending up in a battle or letting her walk all over me?

[MissScatterbrain]

Stop paying for her mobile phone/turn off the internet router at home.

You do not need to fight her for the phone - give her a choice, hand it over or she will not be allowed to have XX for a week. And mean it.

[KidsDontThinkImCool]

Her dad pays for her phone. Sometimes I do turn off the router or hide tv remotes but then DS suffers too. As for XX - that's the problem - aside from parties I have nothing else to use as leverage. I feel totally stuck. And if I dare shout at her she tells her dad I am "going crazy".

[Dancergirl]

Yes I was going to ask that too. Do you pick her up every day? Is there a bus she could get?

[KidsDontThinkImCool]

School bus is only an option on the days she doesn't finish late but those days aren't really the problem. There is a train station walking distance from school but she would have to change trains and I would still have to collect her from train at other end (tho much closer than school if I were at home).

The problem is really not so much the transport as her attitude. For a while she was kicking up the worst fuss in the mornings on the way to school. (Not saying she does't want to go - I've spoken to teachers etc at school and pretty sure she is happy there) Just being rude and aggressive to me and DS, shoving him, tripping him up on the way to the car, kicking or hitting him in the car. So I put her on the school bus in the mornings which helped for a while (and she enjoyed because she felt she'd gotten one over on me) but now she is refusing school bus and insisting I drive her. It's a case of "whatever you say I'm going to want to do the opposite."

[adeucalione]

I would tell her that you feel bad about making her leave school earlier than she wants to, and present her with the train timetable like you're doing her a favour, with a big cheery 'problem solved' smile.

If she wants a lift to school instead of the bus, she knows what she has to do - be civil.

If she wants you to pick her up from school she knows what she has to do- be on time.

You sound like you think you have no leverage but you do, every aspect of her life is reliant on you and your goodwill, so use that like you mean it.

[TantrumsAndBalloons]

I wouldnt be picking her up.

If there is another route home then i would tell her she has to do that.
If not, the club would not be happening.

I used to wait 10 minutes for dd. If she wasnt there I would drive home.

I only had to try that a few times.

[TantrumsAndBalloons]

why would you have to collect her from the station?

[Dancergirl]

I agree with tantrums

How old is your ds? How does he feel about all this waiting around? I know sometimes waiting around for siblings is par for the course but not so much at secondary age.

I don't think it's a huge problem having to change trains. My dd gets the tube home from school when she stays late for a club, it also involves a change.

[TheresNoMeWithoutYou]

No clubs no money. My 12 year old tried to get her own way for 10 days recently. A 10 day tantrum. Ffs. It was becoming legendary in school because she was grounded for 8 days. I practice the shrug, the casual "xx will happen if you continue. ..". Always follow through. My DD was sweetness and light one morning, during said grounding. She was hoping to get to her club that evening. She even told her little brother clipe that if she was good she would get off her grounding. She didn't. She screamed like a 2 year old for over 1 hour. Its hard but rudeness, entitlement and aggressive behaviour needs nipping. You are the boss. I always try to make sure afterwards that we havea chat/hug. Boundaries and love. Course it doesn't work with all children glares at eldest but if they continue to push, let them go. Independently. No money, no lifts. They will sink or swim.

[OldBeanbagz]

I'd tell her that if she's not there at the time you've agreed, then she'll have to make her own way home. Then just drive off if she's not there. It'll only take her a couple of days to realise what a pain that is.

You might want to leave it until the nights are a little lighter but presumably she has a phone if you runs into any problems.

Remind her that you're doing her a huge favour by picking her up from school and that by being late she's inconveniencing both you and your DS.

[KidsDontThinkImCool]

I've been very tempted to drive away in the past but then I would just have to go back for her eventually. She's never taken the train so I would have to do it with her at least once before that's an option AND make sure she always has money on her. I can tell you what would happen - she would enjoy it for a while (as she did with the school bus), then decide it's too much of a pain and claim she has no money so I have to come back for her.

[KidsDontThinkImCool]

Tantrums train station at our end is still 2 miles from the house. Do I make her walk it? I mean, she certainly could....

Maybe that's the answer. Maybe this weekend, I take her on the train to show her the route. Then next week if she isn't out within 10 minutes of the agreed time I will leave and she can make her own way home. She might like the train but she certainly won't like the 2 mile walk home with her sports kit and her school bag.

[hellsbells99]

"Maybe that's the answer. Maybe this weekend, I take her on the train to show her the route. Then next week if she isn't out within 10 minutes of the agreed time I will leave and she can make her own way home. She might like the train but she certainly won't like the 2 mile walk home with her sports kit and her school bag."

• yes do this!

I had a problem with my DD1's attitude for a very short time - she would start arguing with me in the car etc. So I stopped the car, told her to get out and drove off leaving her to walk the 2 miles home. Funny enough she doesn't give me stick in the car anymore!
On the brighter side, they do grow out of the attitude :)

[OldBeanbagz]

That sounds like a good plan for the weekend.

My DD moans about the weight of her bags just walking to the bus stop in the morning (approx 200m).

[catsofa]

At that age I walked 3 miles and got a train to school every day and then back in the evening, my mum didn't drive and wouldn't have been home from work anyway. I had a pass for the train because I needed to take it 5 days a week. Was given the money for it and it was my responsibility to buy it each month.

It's light until 6pm now and the clocks will go forward soon, so perfect time to change arrangements. Do it!

[KidsDontThinkImCool]

Of course no doubt that will then spark another torrent of abuse from XH ('you did WHAT? you left her at school? you made her walk home? I have serious doubts about your parenting ability, I think you need to get help, if this kind of thing continues I may have to report you')

No matter what I do someone will shout at me or tell me it's the wrong thing.

But unwarranted abuse from XH husband is probably the lesser of two evils compared with teenage DD thinking she can walk all over me so will try and be strong and go through with it anyway.

[TantrumsAndBalloons]

Mine have a 10 minute walk to the train station and a 20 minute walk at the other end. They have done that since age 11.

I think it is very disrespectful to leave a person waiting for over half an hour because you want to do something else. That's why I refuse to do it.

Either get there on time, or walk.

And yes, she probably will get tired of doing it after a while. Because she knows you will always take over once she gets fed up of doing it herself.
The train won't wait for her- you will. Of course she prefers you to give her a lift.

But it's not her choice, is it? It's yours. You are the one that chooses to either sit there waiting or to say no, if you want to do xyz you have to make your own way home.

[Nocomet]

I just have to say no gym club (but that's cheating)

Personally I'd say she wasn't to stay for sport any more and that she had to go home on the bus, let herself in and do her HW.

Then you are free to collect her brother from the library if he's too small just to go home or they fight.

[TheresNoMeWithoutYou]

Sounds like XH may be a problem. DD has someone to model her behaviour on. Boundaries and respect are great when both parents are role models. Perhaps telling XH politely but firmly (probably repeatedly) to stop bullying you, maybe even keep a diary about DD behaviour, also XH reactions to you. Protect yourself. It will give you confidence dealing with DD. A teenager can spot a weakness a mile off. Any child can TBF.

[KidsDontThinkImCool]

Sounds like XH may be a problem

Ya think? Yeah, XH is definitely a problem but that's a whole other thread.

At the moment I do have to sit there and wait for her because she has no other way of making her way home. Once I show her how to take the train I will have an option so I'm definitely going to do that ASAP.

Oh, and I've also just cancelled tickets to a show we were supposed to go to this weekend after she spent the drive home from school punching her brother and calling me a crazy annoying idiot about 12 times.

This. Is. Not. Fun.

[Swanhildapirouetting]

I think she is testing you by making you wait. The more you give, the more she will test. I wouldn't enter into any long discussions about why you aren't picking her up. Just change the arrangement and say that you need to be home by x time, and if she is not there by x then she will need to get the train. And you are happy to pick her up from the train station.

She probably will like having the independence of making her own way home. There are all sorts of other ways you can show you love and respect her, but allowing her to push you and her brother around, is not one of them.

She is obviously pretty angry with everyone atm and the more you give way the more angry she seems to get. If you show you believe she is confident and resourceful you might find the situation improves. There is nothing to stop you welcoming her back from the station with a lovely meal every evening.

My daughter gets the bus to school every day and back, and changes once sometimes twice. The journey takes an hour. It makes her tired and bolshy sometimes, but I've noticed that waiting for her doesn't improve her temper because then she is no longer master of her own arrangements. A few times I've picked her up and she's been late because of friends and very defensive.

My daughter is 11 and in Year 7. I'm very impressed by her independence and let her know it too. Sometimes it is difficult to respect that bolshiness can mask a sort of developmental stage, that they are learning to be independent, but still wavering.

[mummytime]

If she says she isn't going to school - my advice is: ignore it, just carry on as if she is going to go.
Does your DS go on the school bus?
If so then I would expect her to do so, and act as if that is what she is going to do.
If she isn't ready in time and continues after one trip by train , then make sure you and DS have a treat on the way home.

Maybe even on Sunday, discuss what is going to happen about going to and from school for the following week, including if she isn't out by the set time she will have to travel by train. Then act as though this is set in stone. (Ignore the shouting etc.)

Hopefully it will get better.

[TheresNoMeWithoutYou]

kids its crap when dads aren't supportive. My eldests birth dad used to tell everyone what a bitch I was etc. I did my best to enable contact. He just preferred the pub. He wasn't in DSs life by the time he was a teenager thankfully. I have watched friends struggle with angry XHs though. for you.
I think the support thread is a great idea. It isn't only the behaviour I struggle with. I don't know about anyone else, it's the stomach churning way I feel, it's having to control my words and temper. I stand sometimes, just counting. Mentally exhausting.

[KidsDontThinkImCool]

Thanks, I like

XH, for better or worse, is very involved in the kids' lives. I guess it's better than the alternative but it makes it harder for me to limit my contact with him as much as I would like. But like I said, that's a whole other thread!

It is exhausting - I wonder if a support thread on teenagers would get much traffic? Maybe i'll try and start one and see. x