Hi everyone, I'm at my wits end with my 14 yr old DS. His attitude sucks, he's surly and grumpy most of the time (typical "Kevin"), but more importantly, his behaviour is getting worse.
Since Year 3 he's always wanted to be the "class clown" and we've constantly told him there is a time and place for silly behaviour - in the playground, NOT the classroom.
However, this is obviously a trait that he can't shake off and he's constantly getting "sin" points at school mainly for low level disruptive behaviour (although in some instances they have been a little more serious). I've worked out that on average, since Sept, he's been getting around 13 sin points per month as opposed to 7 achievement points (gold stars).
He goes to a v.good school and his teachers all think he has the potential to do well. We're not pushy parents, but we want to encourage him to do his best. However, he just does the "bare minimum" and isn't willing to put in any extra effort. Just trying to get him to do his homework/revision results in a row! Some days I dread him coming home because I know there will be a row - I'm tired of it all! It's mainly me that has to deal with it all the time due to DH's work, but he does support me when he's here.
As a result of his bad behaviour, we have done various sanctions such as banning TV, video games, grounding him, withdrawing mobile phone for 24hrs, etc. However, I don't think we've found anything that actually gets through to him - is there such a sanction that will?!
For example, if I tell him he's lost his XBox for 24hrs, I just get a moutful of attitude from him - not a "sorry"! There's never any remorse. He's so argumentative and can't see that he's doing anything wrong. We take into consideration the fact that he's a typical teenage boy with raging hormones (puberty kicked in early), but I don't feel this is an excuse for all of this.
I'm really worried that he's just not going to pull his weight enough with his school work and won't get the results he needs.
I'd appreciate any advice from other parents about this as I'm getting so fed up with it now.
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Teenagers
Help - Need Santions that REALLY work for 14 yr old DS!
missprocrastinate · 19/03/2013 13:13
There is a good chapter on talking rather than punishing in "how to talk to teens, so teens will listen"
It's a bit ££, but your library might have it.
I can't remember it exactly, but it's along the lines of explains how his behaviour makes you feel, stating expectations and thrashing out an action plan without knee jerk sanctions. Can't remember exactly, but it seemed very sensible.
My 15y DD is stupidly good and my 12 y just gets sent to her room and reminded that the taxi driver goes in strike if she insults it.
Living in the middle of nowhere is very handy 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like most of the problems are school-related, and the problems you have with your DS at home arise because you are 'on his back' about his behaviour and achievement at school... Which is perfectly understandable, but possibly not an approach that will actually work.
I'd be willing to bet that he is one of a largish minority of kids who learn through doing (known as 'kinaesthetic', 'activist' or 'experiential' learners), and who are not well-served by a school system that expects them to sit still and listen. This is to do with how their brains are wired - how they naturally learn - though many children like this do learn to adapt...
Kids like this find sitting still very difficult, and really someone ought to be teaching them maths (say) by getting them to build a wall: count, weigh, measure the bricks, mix the mortar, learn angles for corners, develop engineering skills if they're especially bright, etc... But instead they'll be expected to work from theoretical examples in textbooks that mean nothing to them and don't engage them. And when they can't and don't, they get into trouble...
IMO, schools punish a lot of kids because they simply can't offer them learning opportunities that suit them. If you think back 30-40 years, to times when left-handed children were punished for using their left hands, you'll get the idea... :(
Some stop trying altogether, and some start to behave badly. Bright kids get especially bored, and often engage in low-level disruption because of it. It can also be pretty puzzling for them, because they know they're bright, and yet they find what they're being asked to do difficult, and they don't understand why. What's more, they're often discouraged from doing the practical subjects they would enjoy more, because they're bright (and we have this weird academic/vocational divide in our education system 
), and pushed to do more 'academic' subjects - then criticised when they don't do especially well.... It's frustrating, and some of them get quite angry and alienated, which then leads to further bad behaviour, and can turn into a really negative 'vicious circle'.
If this sounds like your son, then the chances are that's the root of your problem. He can't help how his brain works, and it's not his fault the English education system doesn't meet his needs; and even if he's not consciously aware of the problem, at some level he'll think it's unfair that he gets into trouble.
If he is also getting into trouble from you - his mum and dad - the people who ought to be 'on his side' - then he's likely to be quite angry with you.
Those of us with kids like this can tie ourselves in terrible knots, because we want our DCs to do well, and we feel we ought to back up the school if our kids are being disruptive. But it's not always the best approach... About a year ago, someone here on MN (and sadly, I can't remember who) said something wise about schools: they pointed out that our relationship with a DC's school only goes on for a few years (7 at most); whereas our relationship with our DC goes on and on for ever. It is simply not worth letting problems at school get in the way of your relationship with your child.
Of course, even if we campaigned to change the education system to suit kids like ours, it won't be done in time to help your son... And you probably don't really want to change your son (or not very much! 
) just to suit the system.
You will have realised by now that I don't think the 'sanctions approach' will work. In fact you know it doesn't work, because you've been using it, without success!
Instead, IMO, you need to help him learn techniques to cope with a school system that doesn't suit him...
In my own case, I didn't work out what was going on until my son was already angry and disengaged - under-achieving in his GCSEs and trying to drop out of education... :( But if I had the time again, I'd do this, and I suggest you try it with you son...
- Help him identify his learning style (if he hasn't already) using info like this
- Help him understand that if he's a kinaesthetic/activist learner, that's not something he chooses, it's how his brain is wired.
- Help him understand school activities aren't very well suited to learners like this, so he has to learn to adapt...
- Help him identify ways he can do things and be active without getting into trouble... Twiddling toes inside shoes? Writing more and faster?!
- Help to negotiate with the school about useful coping strategies - will they let him fiddle with a lump of blu-tack while he's listening, for instance? ('Fiddling' has been shown to help concentration and learning for kinaesthetic learners).
- Support him to manage frustration and anger generally. He'll probably experience a lot of it.
- Help him understand he'll probably enjoy practical subjects more than theoretical ones, because of the way they're taught, not because of how clever he is.
- Make sure he's involved in as many sports and practical activities as possible, to sort of 'balance out' the sitting still he has to do.
- Help him understand he'll have to work harder at concentrating, listening, reading and sitting still than many other pupils; being a kinaesthetic learner doesn't 'let him off the hook'! But because he's working harder, he needs breaks and rewards! Agree what these will be! :) Rewards for managing not to get into trouble area good idea, I think. :)
It's got to be worth a try, hasn't it?!
You're welcome. It's a bit of a bug-bear of mine. 
This happened to my son, and I didn't realise it - despite the fact that I am a qualified teacher, and spent years teaching on an Access course in an FE college which was filled with people who had had this kind of experience at school... :(
Thank you so much for that flow4 .
I often see you posting on here, and you seem so wise. That link is really going to help my DC. I feel so excited about it, and I am going to find out more about it. (I have that teary sort of feeling you get when you have had a revelation!)
and 
for good measure!
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I understand (and have felt) the frustration that leads parents to raise the punishments over and over again... Ground him for the weekend!... Didn't work? Well, ground him for a week!... Didn't work? Ah - ground him for a month!... Didn't work? So - ground him for a year! Take away his phone, his consoles, his worldly goods! 
Teenagers are absolutely bloody maddening!!
But seriously. Stop and think. Think about the impact of their bad behaviour on you. Then think about the impact of even attempting to enforce a year-long lock down and sanctions-war...
What on earth could they possibly have done that's worse than the impact of such sanctions (even if you could enforce them)?!
If you tried, you would create a stressful, miserable, intolerable life - not just for them, but for every family member, including you. And why on earth would you do that?
And once they are bigger than you, if you are locked into this kind of power battle, you are - frankly - totally stuffed. If you choose to fight them, they will fight you back and - the very, very uncomfortable truth is this - they will win.
Your only chance is to use your brain.
I realised a deeply unsettling truth about three years ago: if you rule out violence (which I hope all of us here do) then discipling teenagers depends on their co-operation.
Terrifying, isn't it?
But I'm afraid it's true.
Once your teenager shows you they are not going to co-operate with the sanctions you impose, you have a brief opportunity to persuade them that it is in their own best interests to step back into line. You get just a few goes at it: Refuse to co-operate with this weekend's grounding? Right, well then, you'll lose this week's money and be grounded next weekend too.
Give it a go. Of course most of us are giving our teenagers plenty of perks, and they know they've got plenty to lose... Many of them will step back into line... :)
But if your teen continues to fight you, and/or as soon as you raise the stakes so that is no longer in their interests to co-operate (and a year's grounding is definitely beyond that point), then you have to change the game. You've lost control of them; and you will struggle, unless and until you can get them to control themselves.
This is a bit of a diversion from misspro's original post (sorry ) . My earlier post should make it clear that I personally think this is a school problem, and 'sanctions' aren't needed at all, or likely to work.
But even if they were, 'extreme sanctions' certainly wouldn't. Which is why parents don't actually tend to use them. Except in their fantasies.
Really, if there are any hard-liners out there: stop trying to control your teens past the point where they refusing to co-operate, because you cannot succeed; instead, help them learn to control themselves.
folds up soapbox and carries it away
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