Father/Daughters' damaged relationship

[Lindie67]

Hi. I?ve two daughters aged 16 and 14, divorced from their dad 5 years ago. My ex has a terrible relationship with the girls, mainly due to his emotional outbursts and rages that they?ve experienced over the last 5 years. He only just started paying child support this year.
He began seeing someone this year and since than, he hasn?t bothered much with the girls, seeing them now and again, taking them for a couple of hours to the local KFC or to see his Mum.
They basically hate seeing him as all he does is talk about himself and his girlfriend. He never treats them to anything, gives them ten pounds each and drops them back. You know what teenage girls are like, they?d like to be treated nicely by their dads. They really don?t know what to say to him so they sit in silence most of the time. On Sunday, in the car back he started one of his rages because they didn?t shower him with love and affection. He then sent my eldest an angry text and she sent him a really long one completely explaining exactly why she can?t get on with him. She mentioned they way he only talks about himself, hardly asking about them, they way he blames me for everything, and the way he spoils his girlfriend and spends money on her but not them. He then retaliated saying why should he spoil her as she hardly speaks to him, also that he didn?t complain when I bought a prom her dress! What was that all about??
He?s so immature and such a hopeless Dad and I?m sad for the girls as he?s so unsupportive. I?m worried that all this has damaged the girls with their view towards men. I just wish he could step it up with them, spend a full, fun day with them rather than fly off the handle all the time when he?s not getting his own way. My eldest asked yesterday why I don?t step in and stop him seeing them but I want them all to get on normally. I don?t know what to do. Has anyone got any advice how to make things better?

[TwoPeasOnePod]

:( for your daughters, you are right about him being a poor role model of a man. I was in a very similar situation with my dad at your DDs age; needless to say, as soon as we were 'allowed' to stop seeing him, me and my DB immediately stopped going. My dad is a weak man too, not angry/shouty but the way he let his wife treat us has ruined any hope we may have had of respecting him, ever.

My advice would be to listen to your DDs, they are old enough to know their feelings, and at an age where self-worth is paramount. I have little tolerance now for involving myself/my family with people who drag you down and cannot value love and respect towards each other. It is sometimes better to have 'no dad' (iyswim) than one who offers them nothing, no fopundation of normal treatment, no real interest in them as people and young women.

At 16, your DD doesn't have to see him if she chooses not to, am I right? I would ask them how they want to proceed, explain it neutrally (ie. don't slag him off to them) but if they don't want to see him, the ball is in his court to make the bloody effort. He sounds shite! Just be calm, neutral, and back your daughters up in their decisions, good luck.

[TwoPeasOnePod]

Just to add, his promotion of the idea that he should only spoil them/treat them if they show affection to him is fucking disgusting appalling. My dad is rich, my mum is poor. He paid my mum f-all towards our upkeep, and it hurts to know this even now I am an adult. It implies that the children have low 'worth' to their dad on a personal level, not a cash one, how my dad could swan around in multiple luxury vehicles whilst paying a couple of quid a week towards his two first children is beyond me. Why would anyone want someone like that in their life? Your DDs sound like they have their heads screwed on, in that they are not kissing his arse for material benefits, and they have their mum to show them how much they are 'worth' with unrestricted love :)

[Lindie67]

Aww thank you for your last comment, what a nice thing to say. It's good to hear from someone that understands from my daughters' point of view. Your dad sounds like a real piece of work, I'm so sorry. God what's wrong with them? I'd rip my arms off for my girls, they're completely my world and I can't understand how their dad doesn't feel the same. It's like he's punishing me through them but destroying them too. So weird. I'll have a chat with them later. I do worry about my 14 year old, she's so shy, quite deep and quiet and I worry what's going on in her mind.

[Bubbless]

i had and still do, even though im 20 the same relationship with my dad as your DD's.
my favourite phrase from childhood was 'You should automatically respect me as im your father, you have to show me your WORTHY of my respect'
needless to say i cut contact asap and now see him on my terms, but hes still selfish and will still slag my mum off (shes recently disabled, in a wheelchair etc..)
it makes you wonder about why they are so horrific!
however
its made me such a strong person, im able to clarify easily what i want to say and put it across in a manner that wont look offending (like you DD with the text reply), i stand up for what i believe in and will happily forge my own paths to what i believe is right, il stand up for someone if i know they are in the wrong, regardless of who is accusing them otherwise..
i dont believe i would have these skills if it wasnt for my pathetic excuse of a father..
let your DD make up their own minds, and ensure that they take responsibility for them- they will be such strong, independent women.. best out of a bad situation?
sorry i cant be more help!

[mathanxiety]

I think you should be very thankful that your ex treats the girls so badly actually.

For him to rage at them and then shower them with material gifts, etc. would be extremely confusing and ultimately a really bad lesson for them to absorb. In the long run it is a lot better for them to be alienated from this man than tied to him. My oldest DD cut off her father at age 15-16ish and has flourished in every way ever since. My ex was a bit like yours, always aggressive, always bullying, always thinking he was the centre of the universe and that everyone should literally stand aside and let him pass. When she made it clear that she wanted nothing more to do with him he started respecting her a bit more. He knows not to mess with her. A narcissist seeks only to dominate they can't function in any other way in a relationship. They will dominate by throwing their weight around or they will do it by playing the victim your DDs have seen both ploys. Every gift from a narcissistic parent is fatally tainted.

Your older DD sounds fantastic, well able to stand up for herself and stand up for you too. It is really, really painful to see your precious children mistreated by their own father, but in the long run the confusion and the unhealthy message that [abuse + presents[ represents is the thing to avoid, not to wish for. What will really screw up your girls is the idea that they should put up with abuse in order to get material goods. You should be proud of your DD for understanding that it is the quality of the relationship first.

Do the DDs have a school counsellor they can talk to about the relationship with their father? Or is there a teacher they could talk to?

My eldest asked yesterday why I don?t step in and stop him seeing them but I want them all to get on normally. I don?t know what to do. Has anyone got any advice how to make things better

Please, please, please, do what your eldest DD asks. Move heaven and earth to achieve this.

Things will never get better. He will always seek to dominate. He will never change. They will never get on normally.

[Lindie67]

I can't thank you guys enough for answering me, and it's helped me so much in my head as I get so frustrated, angry and confused as to what to do but now it's clearer thanks to your advice and your personal experiences. I'm going to show my eldest DD these messages and I think it'll help her too. I agree with you mathanxiety, I do think all this has made her a very strong minded girl and she's very protective over her younger sister which can be no bad thing. I need to stop thinking that all other dad's are perfect and feeling my girls are hard done by as of course, they are great dads and rubbish dads all over the world.

[mathanxiety]

Best wishes to you and to your lovely girls Lindie.