PLEASE help! Antisocial allegations made against my son. (sorry, an essay)

[WorriedWitless]

Help, please, and advice if possible, I am getting myself into a real state.
I got a letter from the anti-social behaviour coordinator about my son. It is an awful letter.
They have received complaints about "nuisance, intimidating behaviour, alcohol fuelled anti-social behavour and other incidents of nuisance and harassment" and tell me that he is "part of the group causing these problems". It then goes on to say that I am repsonsible for the behaviour of my household and the matter is being viewed very seriously. I am informed of an appointment to visit us.
After a day being worried witless I came to my senses and phoned the guy for more information. It turns out it about under-age drinking. So what about this intimidation and harrassment? Just "perceived" as there are a lot of them and they are noisy. So I calmed down a bit as no serious accusations had been made, but now am up to full speed worrying again. He said the meeting was just for a chat and nothing formal, but why send out such a threatening, intimidating letter? And why are residents automatically believed? We are at a complete dispdavantage here as we can't know who has made the complaints and I know for a fact that claims are often exaggerated to ensure the attention of the police. To give the guy credit, he said he was aware of that too.
We are a large village not an inner city, no violence at all and residents should know this. Even if a lager or two is consumed he never, ever comes home showing it. They are a good group of kids, ranging from 14 - 18, polite, friendly, more social skills than the older residents - people should try saying hello instead of demonising them. They have nowhere to meet, they can't settle in any one place for long as someone calls the police. They get hounded out of the market place and forced into the dark corners of the recreation ground. What sort of society does that to their young people? They are mostly in groups of 5 or 6 but sometimes they coalesce into about 20, often when seeing friends off on the bus.
Sorry, this is a real essay. I just don't know how to play the meeting and I get very emotional. And I can't stop him meeting his friends - why should I when they are doing no harm? And why shouldn't they socialise - in Europe you meet your friends n the Piazza, so what is so wrong with meeting in the market place? But if any more complaints are made this could become very serious. And how can I stop him being wrong with just his presence? He is the only one to get a letter so far, which is very odd.
Are there any mums or legal people out there who know about this sort of thing and the procedures that are in play? Am I over-reacting?

[Caligula]

Who is the anti-social behaviour co-ordinator? Is he attached to the school, the police, or SS (or someone else)?

Don't panic - as you say, so far there are absolutely no concrete allegations against your DS, let alone proof of bad behaviour.

[Dinosaur]

I don't have any practical advice I'm afraid, other than to suggest that you get together with the other parents of your son's friends to discuss it all and hopefully agree on a plan of action.

Good luck with getting it sorted out.

My sister and I spent most of our teenage years hanging out at the market cross in the small town where we lived - it's just what teenagers do, isn't it?

[Piffle]

I agree it is a symptom of lack of facilitis for that age group.
Cinemas are too far away and too expensive, they are not allowed to meet and consume a small drink in their own houses with their friends.
A good idea might be to get together with the other parents and arrange what is acceptable between you all and one family take the responsibility in their home on a rota basis.
As a former resident living over shops, the teens that gathered outside the offie and the video shop, made our lives hell. I see it from both sides.

[Caligula]

I would ask the anti-social bloke exactly what allegations are being made. And then memo the meeting.

It's always safest to have things in writing.

[WorriedWitless]

The anti-social behaviour coordinator is at the Community Safety Unit, whatever that might be. It doesn't seem to be the police although there is the police badge on the letter as well as their own. They seem to follow complaints made to the police.

[WorriedWitless]

A good suggestion, Caligula, I'll take minutes. I have spoken to another mum who was as outraged as I was. She reacted in exactly the same way as me and said all the things I was saying without any prompting. The trouble is I don't know the other mums, you don't meet secondary school mums like in primary school days. Also my son doesn't want me to make a fuss, though he has spread the word around his friends who may or may not have told their parents.

If I can believe what I heard from the bloke on the phone, there are no specific allegations. Which isn't as reassuring as it sounds, as 'nuisance' etc. is hard to define and refute.

My son agrees they are noisy, but not for very long, half an hour at the most.They aren't rioting, it is just force of numbers. We live a couple of doors away from the market place and don't notice anything at all so it can't be all that bad.

[WorriedWitless]

A good turn of phrase, Caligula, he is an anti-social bloke. Nice on the phone but bullying letter. Good cop/bad cop roled into one person.

[starlover]

i too can see this from both sides. I don't doubt for one minute that your son and his friends are just socialising and not out to cause a nuisance, but for some people (particularly older people) larege groups of teenage boys drinking lager and being noisy is VERY intimidating.
It is unfortunate that they all get tarred with the same brush, but groups like this are responsible in many cases for a lot of crime, nuisance etc etc...

I lived in a small village and we had a nightmare with groups of teenagers who eventually took to dealing drugs and burning our playgroup down!

i know this is a severe case, but it does make me wary of large groups of teenage boys!

Perhaps during the meeting you will be able to bring up the problem of them having nowhere to hang out... and maybe suggest some options that the local council could consider... a youth group, skate park... anything

[starlover]

i guess they word the letters harshly because otherwise people don't take them seriously... especially parents who don't give a damn what their kids are up to...

not nice for those on the other side of the coin though, like yourself

[WorriedWitless]

Thanks for all your well-balanced responses, it is helping me to see things in perspective. My hysteria is fading a bit.

And, starlover, the explanation for the tone of the letter is a good one.

I know there are anti-social groups of lads around, binge drinking, drugs and vandalism etc. but the behaviour of this particular group shouldn't lead people to think the worst. People read too many tabloids and want to believe the worst. The depressing thing is that this attitude loses the respect of young people.especially when it is obvious they have lied to be taken seriously.

[starlover]

thinking about it some mroe... you say they usually hang around in smaller groups... just wondering if there are other boys in another group that occasionally come into contact with your son and his friends. They could be causing a problem and ALL of the boys have been lumped in with it?

[WorriedWitless]

Yes, that is a possibility starlover, and not all the lads in the village are angels though the ones I am thinking of are not into that sort of trouble.

However the bloke said there was nothing specific, just noise and numbers. He also said we weren't being vicimised. I said that was what it felt like as no one else had had a letter. He said they were dealing with them one at a time but then later said he had no control of the post, an implied contradiction. I wonder if my son, who is very distinctive looking and easy to identify, is being used to find out other names and they don't actually know the group. If that is the case it is hard to know what to do.

[LeahE]

My MIL works for the Community Safety Unit for her local council - don't know if it's the same elsewhere but hers is kind of an umbrella/liaison body between police, social services, health department, domestic violence officers, etc., etc., promoting joint initiatives and joined-up-thinking (it's amazing how many of these organisations and bodies never speak to one another unless someone makes them). They do a lot of stuff around trying to ensure that there is stuff for children and young people to do, trying to tackle alcohol abuse and the sale of alcohol to under-age children, encouraging cross-organisation meetings on domestic violence (though unfortunately all on virtually no budget so there is a limit to what they can do).

Anyway, if it's similar in your area then this person is likely to fully agree with you on the need for there to be something for young people to do, even if not in possession of funds to remedy the problem. If your son or his friends can think of low-cost ways of tackling the problem, though, they might go down very well - particularly as the more enlightened councils are keen to get actual involvement and buy-in from the target age group themselves.

I do think the way the letter was phrased was probably a blunderbuss approach designed to get the attention of neglectful or can't-be-bothered parents - I know that some of the children and teenagers my MIL deals with on summer activity playschemes are basically locked out of the house for days or evenings on end with no shelter, food, money, interest, etc. If they normally have to deal with that kind of case then the guy will probably be extremely grateful to have to talk to a parent who actually does care.

So I'd suggest keeping it calm and friendly - stick to your argument that your DS does not seem to be causing any real harm or harrassing anyone, but gracefully acknowledge that groups of teenage boys can be perceived as threatening even if they aren't doing anything much, and maybe make some suggestions about how everyone could be made happy (if you come up with any, please tackle global poverty and world peace next ). Assuming it's all realtively constructive, I'd suggest bringing up the issue of the letter at the end but again in a very calm manner - stating how distressing you found it to be told that your son had been involved in "incidents" of nuisance and harrassment when in fact you understand that no such specific accusations had been made, and that you wonder if the council could consider rewording this kind of letter in future as they presumably want to work with parents rather than antagonise them from the start.

[WorriedWitless]

A thousand thank yous LeahE I was hoping I'd get a response from someone who knew about this sort of body, and it sounds like what you describe. It would have helped if they had introduced themself properly in the letter. Especially as this was the first indication we had that anything was wrong.

You are right, that is a good approach to the meeting. By the time my son got home from school that day I had had all day to wind myself up and was all set to get a solicitor! Though I suppose I was just trying to prepare myself for the worst case scenario.

I will also suggest that the residents should be educated a little (not sure how to phrase it) as it worries me that they may be listened to uncritically. Maybe they would actually welcome being told that they were nice kids and nothing to fear. It seems to me that demonising young people for no good reason is in itself anti-social and bullying behaviour and counter-productive.

Shall I tackle global warming too?

[Caligula]

Basic communication error, that. Not introducing yourself.

Jeez. Who is running their comms departments.

[WorriedWitless]

ds just back from school and I got more info from him.

Apparently it isn't the market place that causes the complaints - they gave up meeting there long ago as they often get moved on, even if only quietly sitting on a bench (like the old men do!). They go to the recreation ground (in the dark at this time of year) where they sometimes run around like noisy 5 year olds just being silly and having fun. The police then turn up and are usually very nice. They come because they have had complaints that they are noisy, misbehaving and drinking. However they aren't drinking and are believed after searching the bins etc. Well, where else are they to meet under the circumstances and what are recreation grounds are for anyway - running around and being noisy? football!!!????? This is 8 or 9 pm we are talking about, not midnight.

He also has a theory about the drinking accusation. An older boy bought some lager for himself and was accused of buying it for someone underage. MY son was there. The lad got shirty with whoever it was and ended up with the police on his door step. I think he was asked who he was with and had to give my son's name.

Everyone is very quick to call the police these days over trivia. ds says if anyone asks them to be a bit quieter then they always are. They certainly always turn their music down when I ask them. And they go home at around 11 or 11.30 - what wouldn't some mothers give to have their teenagers at home by 11.30??

[Caligula]

This really sounds like harassment, doesn't it?

I think this is what life's going to be like for young people for some time yet...

[WorriedWitless]

Sure does, caligula. And by the very same people accusing them of harrassment.

As for the police, ds says they are on the whole ok, quite nice in fact. The young cops are nice and understand the situation very well, the older cops are not exactly nice but old-fashioned and stern but fair. But there is rotten apple in the barrel who hit one lad (he didn't believe him when he told him his name) with a torch in the stomach. The same cop on another occasion threatened to get them in the back of the van search them, "find something" and put them in the cells. All they had done was to go back somewhere from where they had just been moved on.

It really bothers me that my son now has a very jaundiced view of the police. They should be cultivating young peoples support, not destroying it.

[ThePrisoner]

As I have teen dds, I have obviously got a know a group of teen boys too. They are all nice lads. However, if you put them all in a group, in their hoodies (because it's cold), it is unbelievably intimidating. I wouldn't stop and have a chat if they were all mucking about (except for the ones I know!)

Hope that this all calms down for you.

[WorriedWitless]

Thanks prisoner, if I am honest that is probably my attitide to unknown teenage boys too.

However I now question whether it should be. Should we really expect the worst? Do we believe too many tabloid tales? It really isn't a good message to convey to teen boys, and in a village where they are not an unknown quantity I feel there is not much excuse.

[Aloha]

And when you are trying to get your children to sleep at 7 - 8 - 9pm, a group of lads being noisy (and if they admit to being noisy, they are clearly VERY noisy) fills you with despair. Also if you like to go to bed at 10pm a lot of noise still going on at 11-11.30pm can be dreadful. I do understand that these are basically harmless kids who feel they have nowhere to go and nothing to do and they aren't intending to be intimidating. However, like 99.9% of the population, I would NOT approach a 20strong gang of youths and ask them to keep it down, and if I did and was raped, say, (I am NOT saying this would happen with your son's friends btw, this is hypothetical) I would be told I was asking for it. People have been murdered for less! It is hard nowadays. No youth clubs, nothing for them to do and nowhere to go, but other people have their rights too. I don't know what the answer is, tbh.

[Tortington]

you should write a letter demanding to know the allegations, refuse to meet until you have been given time to make an investigation into alleged incidents. you want dates and times of incidents and any supporting evidence and then you can investigate where your son was at the time

you then need to contact the mothers of the other children and brainstorm, there are dates you wont remember but they might be able to.

speak to the younger people and have a barrage of counter allegations where older people have been abusive to them.

remember that ASB is not CONFINED to younger people OLDER people can be accused of ASB too.

ASB co-ordinators are appointees of the council working in PARTNERSHIP with the police ( hnce the police logo) they cannot demand a meeting - they are not god

if your son has done something wrong and there is evidence to prove it - DARLING he would have been arrested.

SO YOU CAN TELL THEM WHERE TO GET OFF

then ask for diary sheets so that your son can keep a log of abuse he suffers at the hands of older people who forgot that they were kids once.



right - this is important - there is not a record of what was said on the phone - there is only the letter he sent to you.

you want IN WRITING what he said about PERCIEVED ASB and the noise.

you could ask to be put into contact with the people who are dealing with young peoples issues int he town as " you would like to identify council and govt funds for diversionary activities for the children"

wheres the fucking money councillors?

dont say that though!

dont agree to meet unless you are given evidence - and say " oh yes mr ASB co-ordinator - i will willingly go to mediation with whomever feels they are intimidated"

[paolosgirl]

Agree with Aloha. We back onto a swingpark, and live near a railway station, in a lovely area. There are a lot of kids of all ages here, and groups of teens congregate in the park and at the station. When they sit quietly and chat with a couple of cans it's not a problem, but sadly SOME of them vandalise the phone box, throw glass bottles, set fire to the swingpark and the bins etc etc - and the noise that a groups of hyped-up teens can make is scary. I'm saying all this from experience, and not from media-induced hysteria.

I'm all for working WITH your Council (and I do as a Community Councillor), but going in all guns blazing DEMANDING answers is not going to achieve anything frankly - it just sets you out as a parent who will back up her child regardless of what's he's done. I would suggest that you as parents, and with your kids, get together with your local Councillor in the first instance and discuss the matter rationally, without apportioning blame to anyone. The fact is that for some residents, the behaviour HAS become unacceptable, and you need to find out why, and what you as parents, and with the Council, and the kids, can do to make it acceptable.

[Tortington]

the blame has been apportioned already i think. i think you need to force them to look more closely at the situation.

[7777777]

same in my village but i know the lads coz of working at the school so its easy for me to confront them, i wouldnt if i didnt know them. agree with many others, no facilities for them so wot they supposed to do.