12yo damaged elder sister's expensive property - WWYD?

[musicposy]

I really don't know what to do on this one.

I have a 15 year old and a 12 year old. The 12 year old can be quite challenging, but has improved a lot from being 10 and 11.

Both girls have a monthly allowance and both ice skate. This is a very expensive hobby and we are not rich. 15yo has needed new skates for ages, we've all been saving like mad. She saved £100, I saved £100 and my mum gave me £100. The skates she needed are £500 with blades (she's on double axels and stuff and you need very expensive and supportive skates or you break ankles). We managed to get away with buying the boots only for £300 and put the old blades on as they have a small amount of life left in them. That was Monday. Dd1 was so proud of them.

Today, they come back from skate club (DH took them) and 15yo obviously very upset. She showed me her skates. 12yo fell out with her over something and kicked her hard and repeatedly with her skates on. Has scored great big grooves in the new skates.

I am beyond furious but mostly just very upset, gutted, and 15yo has cried and cried; it took us all so long to save. 12yo has cried too and said she is very sorry and doesn't know what came over her - but this doesn't undo the damage.

I've taken 12yo's December allowance off her and another £40 she had saved, originally in case DD1 needs the skates replaced. But it is going to take DD2 a whole year if she has to save £300 and she knows it. She has gone to bed sobbing and sobbing and saying Christmas is ruined (she was saving for something to go with her present). I feel making her pay the whole thing and having no money for a year is a bit too harsh, but I also feel DD1 should be compensated in some way. Plus, I cannot afford to replace them, not even remotely. But I'm mainly just really upset and have no idea how else to handle it.

Please can someone tell me what they would do?

[mrsjay]

Thats awful poor dd1 , TBH i think i would stop dd2 skating too its not fair she gets away with it , maybe try and cut back ont he allowance not sure how much they get or how they spend it but maybe make cut backs till the skates are replaced , Can you get the skates fixed rather than replacing them ? perhaps somebody at skate club could point you in the right direction , sorry no other advice your dd must be heartbroken

[Mrsrobertduvall]

Agree with mrsjay....stop her skating until her behaviour improves.
Hopefully a sharp shock will stop her lashing out...I speak of a mum to 15 year old dd who can lash out and break things. She gets singing lessons taken away and has to call the teacher and explain why.

[Acanthus]

Right, we need to look at your options.

Are the skates still usable - is the damage cosmetic or structural?

What size are both girls feet?

What type of boots does the younger girl wear and when will she need ones like the elder?

[musicposy]

Thanks for the replies.

Damage is cosmetic only at the moment, and not noticeable except close up. The main problem is that if you damage the integrity of the leather and water gets in, the boot will soften and weaken much quicker. So it may mean they don't last as long. Have spoken to the skate shop today and they have said you can coat it with a wax type substance which will help, plus we have bought boot covers for DD1 which will also help. DD2 has paid for both of these items. We've also discussed her paying some sort of compensation to DD1.

They get £25 a month (DD1 gets £30 because of her age and she does extra chores) but this has to buy clothes and all luxuries and pay for mobile phone top ups etc. So it isn't much and if I stop DD2's for a year it probably puts me in the position of having to buy clothes for her.

DD1 has feet two sizes bigger than DD2. DD2 is in much cheaper skates (she's at a lower level and they increase in cost as you go up). Her skates were only £30 including blades (we got a bargain at the club 2nd hand skate shop) and will be around £100 to replace the boot new when the time comes.

My first thought too was stopping the skating for her, but this isn't as easy as it sounds. The coaches have waiting lists of a year plus and once you've left or taken a break will rarely take you on again. If you stop lessons they will fill your space immediately, so I'd have to pay for the lesson to keep her space anyway, unless I was stopping her for good. Plus, we didn't skate for just 4 weeks over the summer and it took DD1 months to get her jumps back again - she vowed never to take another break. They're both at a relatively high level where if you don't use it, you lose it! So stopping the lessons for DD2 would really in essence mean I am stopping them forever. This seems too much to me.

Still, this is all food for thought.

[Lougle]

Another thought is that the punishment should fit the crime.

The actual 'crimes' were:

-A) Kicking her sister
-B) Damaging property

It seems that it's just a bit unfortunate that the property damaged was actually quite expensive.

I suppose I liken it to the child who has a temper tantrum and kicks a stone. The stone lands on grass, no damage done. A different child does the exact same thing and the stone chips and breaks a window. The 'crime' is exactly the same.

I'm not altogether sure that a 12 year old would really appreciate and be able to think through 'mmm I have skate blades on, that will damage the boots' in the heat of a moment.

I'm not excusing your DD2, but putting aside the cost issues, if this is a 'first offence' I would put it down to teenagedom approaching, and choose non-monetary and short-term discipline.

[LillianGish]

Sounds like the skates can be salvaged - I would get dd2 to pay for the cost of repairs and give some money to dd1 to set against the £100 she had to save to buy the skates. I wouldn't stop her skating, but I would warn her that that might be the outcome if there is any repeat of her behaviour. My kids both skate and I know how ruinously expensive it can be. I think at 12 she is old enough to understand that money doesn't grow on trees and that if she damages something belonging to someone else on purpose then she will have to pay for it.

[LillianGish]

"I'm not altogether sure that a 12 year old would really appreciate and be able to think through 'mmm I have skate blades on, that will damage the boots' in the heat of a moment." - not sure if I agree. I think at 12 she probably knew exactly what she was doing even if she now regrets it.

[lljkk]

Consequences do matter...

I throw a glass bottle on cobblestones... the glass shatters everywhere but nothing more: I'm guilty of littering.

I throw a glass bottle, A shard of glass flies up & cuts a man (who I didn't even know was there) in the throat, he bleeds to death on the spot, I can be done for manslaughter.

The problem here is you don't know yet what the consequences are, the girls might lose interest in skating before they wear out, or they might outgrow this size, even. Or they might get nicked or destroyed by someone else. All sorts.

I personally would favour docking the 12yos money to be saved into a fund to replace the skates as and when. You'll need a clear picture in your mind how long the skates should have lasted for, what their resale value might have been, etc.

[dontletthebellsend]

I would halve dd2s pocket money for a year and give the £150 to dd1 for her next skates/blades. She can live on £12.50 a month. She is old enough to know that by kicking someone hard, repeatedly with skates on she has got off lightly with only damaging the leather.

[musicposy]

I actually agree with Lougle that I don't think DD2 thought about it damaging anything at the time. She's a bit like this, not very good at thinking things through before acting, and this has been some of my difficulty with her since hitting adolescence. If I help tighten her laces for her I've lost count of the number of times she's fidgeted and hurt my hands with her blades; she just cannot seem to retain that they are sharp and can do damage. I think she will now, though! From talking to her I really don't think it was premeditated to damage property, she just got cross and lashed out, which is very her. But obviously she does need to learn to control this and this is a good lesson.

I agree about warning her that if there is ever a repeat of this kind of thing, the lessons will stop. I've already said that and she nodded fervrently and promised there wouldn't be - hopefully she knows I mean business and isn't just saying it to appease me! I will repeat that a few times.

She's paid for all the stuff to repair/ protect the skates and I am going down the route of her compensating DD1 for the damage. That seems to me to be the most like real life, if that makes sense, and the punishment that most fits the crime.

It's true we don't know the consequences yet, as you say, lljkk. It might make a big difference to how quickly we replace them and it might make none, dependent on circumstances. DD1's last pair lasted 18 months and were very scratched and scuffed by the end; it's hard not to scuff them yourself sometimes when you're jumping and spinning. I was hoping for a couple of years out of these, but DD1 will be sixth form come September and who knows how things will change for her. If it had happened a week ago with the old skates, we probably would have hardly noticed he marks. I would have still been very cross about the kicking but less so about the skates, so it was very bad timing. However, I accept that it has to be brought home firmly to DD2 that this kind of behaviour cannot ever be repeated, no matter how cross or frustrated she feels.

Thanks for all your thoughts. I feel much clearer over it than I did last night.

[Sloobreeus]

Would agree with halving the pocket money of DD2 and getting her to tighten her own laces! Surely she is old enough to do that herself!

[musicposy]

Yes, think this is the way I will go.

Yes, she does do her own laces but sometimes it helps get them really tight if someone else helps with a lace puller as you can get a better angle. It's a bit different to shoes in that they have to be mega tight and she is still very little for her age so doesn't always have the strength to do them as tight as they should be.

Comments on here are pretty much unanimous, though, so thanks.

[50000feet]

My dd13 at the time had a similar tantrum / fit of anger and kicked my car cause she could not get the door opened. She put a small dent in it - I took all her savings to pay for it. It did not cover the cost but her savings were wiped out. She has never damaged anything again for over one year and even remarked to someone else that she would not do it as she would have to pay. She has had plenty of angry episodes though Looks like that message got home.

It sounds like taking her savings and sobbing has made her realise. Good luck

[Sazzy32]

My two boys had a fight and both damaged their bedroom doors. They have had to pay for them to be replaced and I am hoping that by paying they will now have more respect.
I think you are doing the right thing