Rebellious 12 year old advice needed

[Moosgal]

I have 2 teenage daughters aged 12 & 14, I am currently really struggling with my youngest. Everyday is a battle from the moment I wake her up (usually takes at least an hour to get her up for school), then she will plaster on the makeup and back comb her hair knowing that it is against school rules....when she comes home from school she will refuse point blank to eat meals at mealtimes because she wants to go out, her personal hygiene is poor and she has to be repeatedly asked to get a bath and wash her hair. Bedtime is a battle and she is not getting nearly enough sleep...she makes herself vomit by forcing a cough when she doesn't want to do something or wants to stay home from school which results in us having huge rows when I make her go to school anyway. I have tried reasoning with her, punishing her, shouting at her, talking calmly to her and today took her to my GP to ask for help & was simply told contact the school nurse. I will make an appointment with the school nurse but don't think it will help as my daughter has no respect for her. I am absolutely exhausted with the constant battles and really think I need some outside help before she gets totally out of hand. She cares nothing for what I say and if I lose my temper she will just scream and swear at me or say "What you gonna do about it" or "make me", "whatever" "do one". I really am at the end of my tether and can see her becoming more and more out of control by the day and I'm desperate to put a stop to it now before she gets worse and throws away her education etc. I would be extremely grateful for any advice or if anyone could point me in the direction of any outside agencies who could help. I was thinking of ringing Social services and seeing if they could offer me some support? Thanks in advance.

[RosieGirl]

Does she have any personal items which are important to her, such as her mobile phone, TV etc. Calmly tell her if she doesn't do x by y then she will have her phone taken away for a day.

Is your 14yo good, can she give any reasons why her sister may be acting like this? Can she talk to her sister? Do they have a good relationship?

Speak to the school and the school nurse, maybe there are bigger issues at school which you don't know about.

Sorry to hear things are rough at the moment.

[perspective]

Sorry to hear things are diffficult. You have my sympathy - I am going through something similar with 12 yo family member (I'm not her mum but have responsibility for looking after her frequently.)


RosieGirl makes a good point about the school, definately worth contacting them.

I have had some very sound advice from this forum along the lines of be firm but fair, consistent, let her know her behaviour is not acceptable, but at the same time let her know how you would like her to behave. Let her know consequences in advance. Unplug internet/limit useage.

I also read something really helpful about expectations. She can expect you to do things only if she can comply with the things you expect. So, if dinner is at 6 and she wont eat, then don't make an issue, but don't provide a seperate meal. She can expect to go out, but equally you can expect her to do homework first. Be explicit about it.

I'm struggling too, so this prob isn't much help and with any luck someone with more experience will come along. Just wanted you to know you are not alone.

[Dracschick]

I too have a very compliant ds1 yet ds2 is a nightmare!!!

I think its normal......its like mother nature punishing you for having an easy 1st child.

I go with the removal of things and sometimes having a 'treat' a day out just the 2 of you,I sometimes think that a child finding the passage to teenhood difficult kind of rebels so as to enter it with a fight,almost as if they dont know quite where they belong.

Sadly though this is the time they develop undesirable relationships and things can go wildly out of control.

Its like a little flip switch some children have.

[Moosgal]

I have confiscated her phone and laptop in the past. Its a bit of a struggle because she shares a room with her sister so then I have to try and keep them seperated or she will just use her sisters, her sister then complains that its like she's being punished as she is/isn't allowed in her own bedroom or cant have her friends round if the youngest is grounded as they share friends. I have spoken to both of them together and seperatly about school and both swear that there isnt anything wrong..basically the reason given is she just can't be bothered and doesn't like it because its boring. In fact that's her reason for everything she doesn't want to do. I'm trying my best to stay calm and keep asking her to do something nice with me...just the 2 of us spending time together...I've told her she can choose etc...again I'm boring and she can't be bothered lol. My main problem is I have no support, I'm seperated from her father and he seems to think its hilarious to badmouth me and not back me up with any discipline. She spends all school holidays with his family so he gets to do all the fun stuff if and when he deems he can be bothered. I caught her smoking...rang him and asked him to speak to her...I heard him laughing down the phone saying sooo you've been smoking did you save your friend half or did she save half for you..not once did he reprimand her. I asked for his support getting her up for school..again he laughed with her saying Oh yeah I know your mums a nag why do you think we split up if I was you I'd just get up least if your in school you dont have to listen to her moaning. So of course now everytime I tell her off I get the I'm goin to live with my dad speech, there is no way I will back down and stop disciplining her but its breaking my heart everytime she says this. I think my only option at the moment is to contact the school and ask them for help..I'm wary of doing this tho as her eldest sister has misbehaved in school in the past altho seems to have grown out of it now and the school seemed to watch her every move until she became so withdrawn and quiet incase she got into trouble that I had to contact the school again and ask them to back off. Of course they were also worried about her becoming withdrawn and so were watching her more until finally she admitted she was just terrified of getting in more trouble.

[almostgrownup]

I sympathise with you, it is a difficult situation. I have very similar, with older DD1 (15) fairly trouble-free while DD2 (13) has for some time now been difficult, not coming home, swearing at us, refusing to do homework etc. I suspect that this pattern happens when there is an older sibling, especially close in age and same sex. Younger one feels they can't live up to the older one. Is there any way you could give them separate bedrooms perhaps? The book Siblings without Rivalry by Faber and Mazlish is good on sibling relationships.

You could try utterly ignoring the bad behaviour and giving lots of attention when she does something positive. Shame your ex won't take the issue seriously, as this is a vulnerable age.

One thing that worked quite well for me was taking not just DD2 out somewhere but also a couple of her friends - friends being so much more interesting than family of course.

[Moosgal]

Thanks for all your advice everyone I will defo try it all again and order a copy of that book xx

[WallowsInFlies]

she doesn't sound very happy does she? not saying that's your fault or excuses the effect she is having on you and home but to try to bear that in mind. i don't think she is really in control of herself by the sound of it and the confusion from dad not laying boundaries etc might be further fueling that ungrounded chaos some people fall into in adolescence.

funny thing is if anyone else said their sleep patterns were disturbed, they lacked any motivation for anything, found it hard to get out of bed in the morning, was messing up their relationships with people they loved because they couldn't control their temper and mood swings etc we'd feel sorry for them, wonder if they had depression, offer help etc. with teens we tend to think they're just being little shits/rebellious/etc in that we see it as them having a choice about their behaviour when i wonder if they really do or in reality are really out of control on the inside too which can't be nice at all. think sometimes we are asking them to do something they don't know how to do - as in behave better, be more pleasant, stop losing their temper etc. i guess what i mean is try to retain empathy and not assume this is deliberate vindictive behaviour rather than a genuine struggle they're going through.

bloody hard to live with though i'd imagine.

[Moosgal]

To be honest it must be a living nightmare for her as she spends all school holidays with her dads family where there are no boundaries and she can do as she pleases with little or no consequences, must be hell to come home to me and be told bedtime/ time to get up, time to wash etc...I know she resents me for it but I'm not gonna back down and let her run riot. I went through this same thing with her elder sister but thankfully it didnt last as long or get as extreme so I'll just keep telling myself that she'll soon grow out of it and stick by my guns. She knows I love her to bits I tell her constantly and she knows she can approach me and talk about anything cos I remind her daily, I just hope she settles down soon cos it really is impossible at the moment I feel like I'm constantly on eggshells.

[WallowsInFlies]

imo the boundaries are how you know that you are loved and really cared about. they're what make kids feel safe really. she'll piece it all together in the end and know that you were the one who really was looking out for her and doing the real dirty work caring enough to parent her rather than just being a mate.

really hope you have a breakthrough soon.

maybe she's a bit more confused by the 'cheap tricks' of her father than her sister because she is/was younger? older daughter might have had a bit more of a defense against his undermining and point scoring being a bit older and having seen more?