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petition for under 5's to have swine flu vaccination

(92 Posts)
loganberry12 Wed 12-Jan-11 18:58:41

does anyone know if there is a petition set up for this year? im really concerned that our children are not being offered this i may even start one myself if there isnt one

WilfShelf Fri 14-Jan-11 22:51:07

But you see that health policy can't be made purely on emotional decisions?

activate Fri 14-Jan-11 22:53:01

good job it is not your (or my) responsibility to do the cost /benefit analysis isn't it?

but parents can have objectivity

imagine a child growing up without their parent because the wrong group is immunised? or a parent growing old without their child?
all death and disease is foul

wannaBe Fri 14-Jan-11 22:54:33

given that several of the people who died had actually been vaccinated, that is not good evidence that the vaccination is effective anyway is it?

BelleDameSansMerci Fri 14-Jan-11 22:55:52

Yes, it's a very good job.

WilfShelf Fri 14-Jan-11 22:59:03

The other issue is - if we spend millions vaccinating people who won't, in the end, need it - many more people who will lose other services in turn will suffer, and possibly die. The health policy people have to make really difficult decisions on a rational, evidence-based ground. It isn't always palatable but it does provide rational neutrality.

My view is that we should pay more tax to have more health services, but right now, there isn't enough money to go round.

winnybella Fri 14-Jan-11 23:04:26

Here in France I think out of 175 cases in ICU 16 had been vaccinated. Still, I guess the vaccine protects most that had it.

FWIW dc's paediatrician was against giving it last winter, I didn't ask her this time. I don't think we have a shortage here, but I haven't really thought it was necessary. OTOH reading about children dying makes you concerned.

I agree that a vaccine should be available to the under-5s. Why should they be at a disadvantage? The over 65 seem to be largely immune to swine flu-I know here there weren't any cases over 65 in ICU last week or a wek before that.

I'm happy to be corrected, though, if I got the over 65 immunity thing wrong.

Sirzy Sat 15-Jan-11 07:18:50

The swine flu jab is part of the normal flu jab though and there is no disputing the fact that over 65 are often badly hit by normal flu.

Most over 65s I know had there flu jab as normal months ago. Perhaps that's why there are so few cases amongst them!

Freddy01 Sat 15-Jan-11 11:19:35

Please read my thread about securing flu jabs for everyone and my plight over the last 3 days. I can't sit by and do nothing but I do need help to get this lobbied.

Please help by adding to the thread.

Mumsnet please help by lobbying this with the Government or whomever you think will be able to help.

This isn't going to go away folks.

activate Sat 15-Jan-11 13:58:32

can't see your other thread but if you're talking about mass vaccination then I have to say I'm opposed

activate Sat 15-Jan-11 14:06:03

OK I have now found your other thread and am concerned about your level of anxiety

Do you have anxiety issues in general - I think maybe you should talk to someone because that level of panic is extreme

every year approx 500 people die from flu - it is rare and sad for deaths to occur - extremely sad - the media coverage and panic makes you feel otherwise

take normal precautions - wash hands - use tissues.

but seriously talk to someone about quite how scared you are - it's not healthy to have that much adrenalin in your system

ghostlysilvershred Sat 15-Jan-11 15:10:13

I think it's a pity that having decided the SF vaccine was OK for children last year they later changed their minds, but without there being any easy alternative for parents. Having planted the idea firmly in people's minds that small children were more at risk (rightly or wrongly), they then withdrew the thing they had offered that would help to protect them.

It's also ironic that we actually went into this latest surge in flu cases with an existing stockpile of vaccines but in effect might as well not have had them because they've sat there unused.

I wonder if after this some pharmacies will decide it is worth investing in becoming licenced to vaccinate children?

The big difference between children and people aged 45-60 is that the latter can get themselves vaccinated quite cheaply almost anywhere. So even if the NHS makes a quite rational cost/benefit-driven decision not to vaccinate adults, they still have the option of a jab somewhere else, once they're aware of their risk. For children it's just not that easy.

So when the government decide which age groups to leave out of SF vaccination because the benefits don't justify the costs, it would be good if they factored in which age groups can get the jab an alternative way, and which can't.

I have an unvaccinated dc but I think it's too late to worry about that for this year. I wish I'd pushed harder when I was told no last year, because then at least she'd have the residual immunity from then, and I do think it's worth being immunised against a new flu in principle because any new flu is something to be very very wary of. It does seem likely we're past the peak for now though.

Fyoggy Sat 15-Jan-11 15:52:07

I dont think people are hysterical, I think parents are naturally concerned. Especially when you see a doctor and his wife, also a nurse, saying that swine flu killed their daughter who had absolutely no underlying health problems.

My son was due to be vaccinated last week before he uses an inhaler from time to time. he has not been diagnosed with asthma as they dont like to diagnose until a little later in life. He is 7 months. When I got to the surgery they told me he couldn't have it because the criteria had changed, literally overnight.

Every life is important, but I fail to see how over 65's can be more important than the under 5's who this year have been hit really hard by the vaccine. I was speaking to my boss about this only yesterday and he was saying how a lot of people over 55 have got immunity against it because they were vaccinated against asian flu as children. I could be wrong, but many of the cases I've seen have been children and people of the 30's and 40's age bracket.

I'm now trying to get it done privately because my GP's are still trying to decide if they will let me buy a private prescription and have the practice nurse administer it. This astounds me as although the flu has peaked, its by no means fizzled out.

I also have a friend who is an intensive care nurse at our local hospital and told me in no uncertain terms to get my son vaccinated because they were at breaking point with swine flu cases and didn't have enough ventilators to treat people. She's not a drama queen, but made a point of telling me to get it done. She's a health professional and I value her opionion. If she thinks its necessary then I'm taking her word for it.

BlackSwan Sat 15-Jan-11 16:02:28

You know what they'll do if they start administering the jab to under fives? They will use up their huge stocks of Pandemrix (which contains the mercury derivative, Thimerosal) which they overbought last year, rather than buy more of the latest trivalent vaccine which doesn't have thimerosal in it.

Something stinks.

ghostlysilvershred Sat 15-Jan-11 16:07:51

They can't buy more of the trivalent vaccine because it takes too long to manufacture.

BlackSwan Sat 15-Jan-11 16:31:15

Gotcha.

activate Sat 15-Jan-11 19:56:17

"I was speaking to my boss about this only yesterday and he was saying how a lot of people over 55 have got immunity against it because they were vaccinated against asian flu as children"

oh god where to start with this one?

1) vaccinations do not give life-long immunity

2) asian flu is not swine flu so how he can infer this is beyond me

Ghekogiddy Sat 15-Jan-11 20:53:20

well the over 65s have been previously exposed to a strain similar to the H1N1, thats why so few are catching it. Not immunised, but exposed to a virus quite similar.

ladylush Sat 15-Jan-11 21:09:34

So who has the trivalent vaccine? I don't want the dc having mercury based vaccines.

mamadiva Sat 15-Jan-11 21:32:50

Was'nt the swine flu jab made up and distriuted without full testing last year?

If so then I think it would be more dangerous to give a relatively un-tested vaccine than to risk them catching the virus itself.

Yes it is tragic that children are losing their lives but I would think that just as many, if not more, children die of normal flu or all sorts of other day to day virus' but the media can't sell on that can they?!

I never took up the offer for my son last year when he was because I did'nt trust the vaccine, this year I would'nt have taken it because a friend's daughter got it and then became violently ill for 2 days afterwards and 2 weeks later contracted swine flu!

andalusianbay Mon 17-Jan-11 14:06:49

H1N1 (2009) swine flu is a new virus, which is why in 2009 there was such concern as few if any of us would have immunity to it. Fortunately, the virus was not as deadly as they predicted. Whilst it has not changed or mutated much as yet, there can only be guess work as to how much it will mutate...and of course when it mutates to a large degree the immunity we have built up will no longer help us. What I am saying is that we should all be given the option to have the vaccine - every year as is the case with the seasonal flu vaccine.

They are currently giving the vaccine to under 5's at high risk, which is what they should be doing, however, data from last winters outbreak shows that of the deaths in children, 20% had no previous health conditions, I think this alone justifies ALL children receiving the vaccine.

There is currently no data to indicate how long the vaccine lasts in children and also, not all children will build up sufficient immunity after the vaccination to the virus and so can still get swine flu. Again, a very good reason for vaccinating them again this year!

When the powers that be say that this flu is generally 'mild'...I'd like to know their definition of mild?? I had (possibly) swine flu in October, which led to pneumonia...I'd never previously had a chest problem.

My opinion is that this is driven by financial considerations and not based on the actual evidence out there. If they felt under 5's should have been vaccinated last year...there is no evidence to suggest that they shouldn't be vaccinated this year.

How do we get a petition going??

onimolap Mon 17-Jan-11 14:17:31

Who would you be petitioning? Decisions on which vaccines are available from NHS are decided on the basis of advice from an expert committee, JCVI.

The link takes you to their official site, which includes minutes of their meetings in 2010 (and indeed all their meetings since 1963).

Sirzy Mon 17-Jan-11 14:26:55

So 80% did have an underlying condition so quite a high proportion. How many actually died though? Not a lot really certainly not enough to warrant mass vaccination

Rollmops Mon 17-Jan-11 15:43:35

"You know what they'll do if they start administering the jab to under fives? They will use up their huge stocks of Pandemrix (which contains the mercury derivative, Thimerosal) which they overbought last year, rather than buy more of the latest trivalent vaccine which doesn't have thimerosal in it."

WHO declared H1N1 a panademic 2009/10 and that prompted the mass orders of Pandermix by various governments.
As it turned out, the virus didn't cause anywhere near the predicted numbers of casualties; in fact, in most cases it was reported to have rather 'mild' symptoms.

Now, could the government's refusal to vaccinate under 5s be connected to the fact that the stockpiles of Pandemrix do contain Thimerosal?
The actual number of deaths - unbearably sad as they are - don't justify exposing millions of children to Thimerosal?

??? confused

sarah293 Mon 17-Jan-11 16:14:40

Message withdrawn

andalusianbay Mon 17-Jan-11 21:33:38

With regard to who to petition, I would suggest those holding the purse strings.

Regarding your other point (onimolap)...can I just say that it was independent experts who advised the government that eating beef was safe during the BSE days!

A recent article, in contradiction to the JCVI report states "medical experts, including the head of the British Medical Association (BMA) in Wales, condemned the policy of not offering vaccines to children unless they are in at-risk groups. Dr Andrew Dearden, chairman of the BMA’s Welsh Council, said there was a “body of evidence” supporting jabs for under-fives.

Surzy - to reply to your msg - 70 children died during last flu season - I think that is a statistic on its own, regardless of whether the child had an underlying condition. And from reports this year the flu outbreak is a lot worse.

Also, to mention about Thiomesal. The WHO have declared it a safe compound after many years of use. Actually, many vaccines that our children have already had contain Thiomersal including :vaccines against diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (DTP), diphtheria and tetanus toxoids (DT), tetanus toxoid (TT), hepatitis B, Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib), and influenza.

"The evidence is that swine flu seems to focus on, or cause more problems in, the very young, the elderly and pregnant women." - but only the very young have been excluded from receiving the vaccine this year?
I think that parents should be given the choice of whether they want their children vaccinated - on an evidence-based decision.

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