Social services clap trap!

(35 Posts)
louby44 Thu 17-Oct-13 21:04:08

Still little improvement with the my DSD and DP and then last week we discover that DSD13 broke down with her teacher/counsellor at school telling her that "my dad beat my sister up on holiday".( She's seeing the counsellor for self harming!) The teacher then reported it to Social Services they subsequently came to visit DP's ex-wife today as they are concerned about the girls!! WTF. They want to interview DP here in our home as they are also concerned about the safety of my 2 DS. I am amazed at the stupid woman's assessment of a man and a situation that she knows NOTHING about! The word of a stroppy, aggressive, angry 15 year old is obviously more important than anything else. We are amazed, astounded...we are speechless.

Ex wife has told them all about DSD vile temper, her abuse towards her, the fact that she was cautioned by the police for slapping and hitting her mother. The drinking, smoking, underage sex, piercings were all mentioned. means nothing - she can get away with all that!

DP is utterly devastated. He worships those girls, he has cried over missing them over the years that I've known them.

The stupid social worker has suggested that they should now only see their dad in public places as he is too dangerous for them to be here overnight. Words fail me!

mumandboys123 Thu 17-Oct-13 21:46:46

do you expect professionals working with children to take the stance that they possibly, may be, probably, might be lying? Or do you want them to believe them unconditionally so that children who need the help of a trusted adult know that if they disclose their situation, they'll be believed, helped and supported? how is the social worker to know the background to this? does it not occur to you that a father hitting a child in the way you describe may well feel like she watched her sister being beaten? would you have accepted a hit like that from your partner because you had been badly behaved and rude to him? If not, why should she? do you recognise that there are women who would be desperate to receive a visit from a social worker to help them get out of a difficult situation and therefore protect their children?

Teenagers have sex, pierce their bodies, wear dodgy clothes, wear too much make-up, abuse drugs and alcohol and smoke cigarettes. Does any of that makes them all liars?

The issue here is why the girl in question has a vile temper and what measures can be put in place to support her and ensure that she maintains a decent relationship with both her parents. Calling professionals who are doing their jobs 'stupid' doesn't help that, does it?

BrianTheMole Thu 17-Oct-13 21:48:28

Its not going to help you much taking that attitude.

louby44 Fri 18-Oct-13 07:06:49

No but it helps me feel a bit better. It's called venting, sounding off, being bloody annoyed that some makes presumptions!!

Thanks for your views though and your last point is the only one I take on board.

Yes the stupid social worker should be HELPING my DSD and her mum to manage what is going on in THEIR house (not ours) on a day to day basis!

One incident with us and we are the 'bad people' countless incidents in their mother's care and we are to be 'investigated'.

Do they really think I would put my own children in danger? Yes I know DV goes on but not here!

louby44 Fri 18-Oct-13 07:13:11

As a 'professional' we would be much more supportive if she had interviewed EVERYONE before she makes her assumptions. How can she presume that my DP is 'dangerous' when she has never even met him?

Children tell lies, I see it everyday in my job. Adults tell lies too but kids find themselves backed into a corner don't they, unable to get out.

Surely she should see the whole picture before deciding what she thinks is best.

MyMotherHadMeTested Fri 18-Oct-13 07:53:48

Sounds stressful for all of you. However, I'm sure that the social worker is intending to interview everybody and work with you all to find a solution, and the suggestion that DP should only see the girls in public while that goes on is a very good one, both to protect your DSDs if the allegations were true (which obviously the sw can't rule out at this point) or to protect your DP from further allegations. Frustrating but absolutely the right thing to do at this point.

NotYoMomma Fri 18-Oct-13 07:59:19

but it wasnt the stroppy 15 year old who told them was it? it was her younger sister who witnessed it and had a breakdown sad

you have 2 girls they would have interviewed and their stories will matchwhich means in the meantime they really do have to act on it.

let them do their jobs, insist they speak to dh and just comply, be honest and keep your heads and temper in check.

its not all the girls fault either so having the rage isnt going to help anyone.

I feel sorry for the 13 year old. she seems to be overlooked due to dd1 and dps volitile relationship yet seems the most affected

Moxiegirl Fri 18-Oct-13 08:04:10

What did you expect them to do - ignore it?
They are doing their job. And I say that as someone who has had ss in our lives for the last few years through no fault of mine.

Aeroaddict Fri 18-Oct-13 08:53:39

Surely you can see they need to investigate an allegation like that? Hopefully once they have finished investigating, they will have a good idea of the reality of the situation, and be able to offer you all some support. It sounds like you could all use some help in dealing with this, so it could turn out to be a positive thing. I can understand it must be upsetting for all involved though.

Kaluki Fri 18-Oct-13 11:01:09

Hi Louby. I have seen your threads on here and completely understand your anger.
I do think that this may well be a blessing in disguise. This girl sounds like she is going off the rails and her younger sister having a meltdown shows how badly it is affecting her. Once SS have established all the facts they can help the whole family to deal with this and hopefully help your DSD's.
Of course your own dc aren't in danger and your DH isn't dangerous but SS have to assume a dc is telling the truth because if God forbid a child was in danger and SS didn't believe them the consequences would be hurrendous!
Vent on here all you like - that's why we are here.
thanks

BurberryQ Fri 18-Oct-13 11:06:52

so why did the younger girl say that then? if there was no truth in it?

SoonToBeSix Fri 18-Oct-13 11:10:18

But your dsd isn't lying your dp did assault her sister. And you seem determined to justify it.

Kaluki Fri 18-Oct-13 11:19:54

I believe she was assaulting him I think and he slapped her in self defence.
OP and her DP know it was wrong of him but it was under extreme provocation.

BrianTheMole Fri 18-Oct-13 11:26:26

Well, the situation sounds like it is spiraling out of control. There might be issues at the mothers house but its not as though its all perfect at yours either. Your dh did slap the older child, I know her behaviors led up to that happening, but none of it sounds good. And maybe from the younger child's point of view, thats how she see's it. She saw her dad lose control and slap her sister. What is a slap anyway? Theres huge variations of it, but it has had an effect on the younger child. It sounds like the whole family need some help to get through this. Seriously, I would drop the attitude and try and work with them to get a better outcome for everyone. That attitude will not help, but it certainly will go towards making things worse.

BurberryQ Fri 18-Oct-13 12:02:34

see if it was just a light slap as one might do for an hysterical person, why would the other girl describe it as 'beating up'?
many people use the word 'slap' for punch...
how many times did he 'slap' her?

TheMumsRush Fri 18-Oct-13 16:26:07

HS'S to dangerous! Bull! I'd have got a slap if I had done what your "d"sd has done! I've been following you and I find this now upsetting for you and your dh! Not much help, sorry thanks

It does sound as though your DSDs, DP and his Ex could do with some help and guidance, no one appears happy, from what you say it appears that everyones blaming each other for things, and its possible/probable that your youngest DSD was crying out for help by self harming?. Maybe this could be a really good thing for them all?

mumandboys123 Fri 18-Oct-13 17:10:42

No, brianthemole, her behaviours did NOT lead to her being slapped/hit/punched by her father. Her father needs to take responsibility for his actions and his behaviour. He could have walked away. He could have restrained an angry, lashing out teenager. He could have stood still whilst she hit him if that is what she was going to do. Instead, he made a choice. And that choice was to hit his daughter. It doesn't matter how out of control or how badly behaved she might have been, there was an alternative to dealing with it, other than by hitting her.

louby, unless all he did was give her some kind of pat on the back or cheerful/friendly slap which has got out of all proportion, you need to face up to the fact that your partner has physically abused his child and that is how it will more than likely be perceived by the authorities. Would you be sending your children to their father's house if he hit either them or his partner's children?

trooperlooperdo Fri 18-Oct-13 17:54:20

So we're now supposed to stand still and let our children beat 7 kinds of hell out of us? I think not! And we wonder why the youth of today are brattish with no respect for authority sigh

"Teenagers have sex, pierce their bodies, wear dodgy clothes, wear too much make-up, abuse drugs and alcohol and smoke cigarettes. Does any of that makes them all liars? "

Yes it does, the legal age to purchase alcohol is age 18 - you also have to be 18 to buy cigarettes - so unless they're going out and stealing them, they're getting them by deception, ergo lying.

If we'd been caught by our parents smoking, having sex, getting drink, we'd have had a hiding....as a result the vast majority of us DIDN'T do it.

Youth of today get a mere "you've dissapointed me" face when caught in a public toilet half way down a bottle of cheap vodka with a spliff in each hand banging the hell out of a 14yr old who's tripping so much she thinks she's a hampster, how is a you've dissapointed me going to stop anything?
And we wonder why so many kids are in special schools

louby44 Fri 18-Oct-13 18:54:12

My DP admits freely and with deep regret that he slapped his DD. He knows it was wrong. He is appalled by what he did. But it was a slap. he DID NOT 'beat her up'. Both girls have utterly over dramatized the situation!

I went into their hotel room afterwards and the blood on the floor was what struck me. It was my DP's. My DSD didn't have a black eye or a split lip - there were no signs of being beaten up.

The girls are using this situation to their advantage so that they can spend weekends with their friends and not here, they have practically admitted this to my DS. They have no friends here and DSD15 now has a boyfriend.

My DSD13 has been self harming for a year now. Long before any of this happened it's not a result of what happened. It's more to do with her mum and homelife.

We welcome the involvement of SS, it NEEDS to be done. What we don't like is the presumptions this person is making BEFORE she has spoken to us all. These girls need help asap. I have since discovered that DSD15 had a knife to her mum when she was 9, just after her parents separated!

trooperlooperdo I agree 100% with your post. Teenagers think they 'rule' and are invincible. It is very, very worrying.

KringleCandleLover Fri 18-Oct-13 19:07:26

I also agree with Trooperlooperdo. I haven't seen previous posts so can't comment but if dh kids had attacked him he would have given a slap,if only to shock them into stopping.
As for ss, sorry but imo they are borderline useless.
Dsd was being beaten by her dm(she attacked her and beat a guitar of all things over her head. I called ss. They did investigate, interviewed dsd(14 at time) and her dm. Their conclusion was that whilst abuse was happening,it wasn't severe enough for them to intervene. Pathetic.
Don't worry, the truth will come out x

BrianTheMole Fri 18-Oct-13 19:16:41

Yes mumandboys the behaviors did lead up to that. The dd attacked her father and he slapped her. That is the ops account of the facts. But I did not say in my post that her father should have lost control and hit or slapped her. Please don't insinuate that I did.

ChinaCupsandSaucers Fri 18-Oct-13 19:23:57

Would you be sending your children to their father's house if he hit either them or his partner's children?

If I was the OP, I certainly wouldn't have taken my DCs on holiday with a teenager who had been criminally cautioned for assaulting her mother.
mumandboys I hope you are never the victim of violence at the hands of your DC - but I am confident, based in posts elsewhere on MN, that when you are the victim of such an assault, your instinct is to protect yourself and the other DCs for whom you are responsible. Standing there and taking it is counterintuitive, and against all instincts.

Parents/carers of violent DCs with SN are taught how to over-rule those instincts. The OP and her DP have no such support.

louby44 Fri 18-Oct-13 19:31:19

mumandboys just out of curiosity, how old are your DC/SDC?

ChristmasPixie123 Fri 18-Oct-13 19:32:05

I'd cut them off now - I know that's not what your hubby wants to hear but you have to think about your son now. I'd be angry and upset in your situation but slapping a 15yr old girl comes across as too much (I would of done the same but a social worker wont see it that way).

Kaluki Sat 19-Oct-13 01:38:12

Teenagers have sex, pierce their bodies, wear dodgy clothes, wear too much make-up, abuse drugs and alcohol and smoke cigarettes
Really? All teenagers do this? So we are supposed to just shrug and let them get on with it because that's just what teenagers do and then when our own dc beat us up, that's fine because they are just being teenagers?!
I know plenty of teenagers who wouldn't dream of doing these things.
Trooper I completely agree with your post.

louby44 Sat 19-Oct-13 08:18:39

Also interesting is that DSD mum's boyfriend has a criminal record after spending time in prison. Ex-wife admitted this to SS.

fairy1303 Sat 19-Oct-13 09:54:51

Hi Louby,

I commented on your other thread.

I said there, and I stand by it, that I do not and can't imagine condoning a parent slapping their child.

I completely understand that her behaviour has been unacceptable and I can understand what drove him to becoming so frustrated though - I think a lot of us have been there with our own children, add into that a stroppy teenager and I can understand how he would have felt pushed to his limit BUT I do still feel that as an adult, he should have controlled that better.
Still, I expect he knows that and it doesn't achieve anything.

I think it is understandable that SS are concerned, to be honest.
I say that as a social worker. (albeit with Adults, not children)
They have had an allegation of abuse.

They have an absolute duty to follow that up, you would want that for any child in an abusive situation, wouldn't you? that the avenue was thoroughly checked out to protect a child that has said she saw her father beat up her sister.

Hopefully, your DSD will receive support with her issues. Hopefully as parents you been given support to deal with this behaviour.

Good luck.

fairy1303 Sat 19-Oct-13 10:00:36

Yes it does, the legal age to purchase alcohol is age 18 - you also have to be 18 to buy cigarettes - so unless they're going out and stealing them, they're getting them by deception, ergo lying.

Oh COME ON

When I was a teenager I was sleeping with my boyfriend(s), smoking, drinking, smoking weed...

So were 90% of my friends

I do genuinely think that it normal, part of figuring out who you are, etc etc

What is not normal is for a teenager to lash out and be violent, but that is a separate issue.

louby44 Sat 19-Oct-13 10:34:46

Fairy I totally agree with your post!

ChinaCupsandSaucers Sat 19-Oct-13 10:53:25

I can understand what drove him to becoming so frustrated though - I think a lot of us have been there with our own children

I would hope that repeated assaults by a teen on her parents is not something a lot of parents experience.

This isn't about frustration - being hurt, attacked to the point that blood is drawn creates a biological, hormonal response! How many if us have cried "OW" instinctively when our toddler pulls our hair only for our cry of pain to frighten our toddler, leading to tears on their part?

The OPs DP was being violently assaulted. By someone of his physical equal, and it was not an isolated incident. Far from being frustrated I imagine his emotion was fear; of pain, injury and risk to others. Slapping her was no more a conscience decision in that situation than a yelp of pain in response to our toddlers love-tugs.

NotYoMomma Sat 19-Oct-13 11:02:22

tbf you havr all let it get this far.

if dd has been violent for years, lives with an ex con, has been fighting with her mum physically prior to this and was brandishing a knife at theageof 9 ! 9!!!

then what the actual hell have you all been doing other than complaining about her behaviour, her exaggerating, blaming it all on the mother

ss shoukd have been involved and support given years before now! a nine year old doesn't generally threaten people with onives unkess they have some serious psychological issues.

you need to get a grip, be honest, accept social service involvement and for gods sake not blame it entirely on a child. dsd13 was the one to raise it, not the 15 year old. do you think its healthy for her either?

mumandboys123 Sat 19-Oct-13 11:08:24

I have no suggested 'all' teenagers, drink, have sex, take drugs, stay out etc. etc. But the OP has suggested that because of these issues, her step daughters are automatically 'liars' in all areas of their lives and therefore she seems to be suggesting that social services should also assume that the girls are lying. It doesn't work like that.

He is a grown man who lost his temper and hurt his child. Unless she is twice his size and strength (which seems unlikely), he could have sought to restrain any physical assault she made on him, rather than fight fire with fire. Please don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that the girl in question is somehow a victim or is somehow 'right' here. But the father, as an adult, could have made different choices. He didn't - which is why the situation is what it is now. Being sorry doesn't mean it never happened or that the family dynamic is not so poor that it needs some kind of professional intervention.

As for the age of my children and step children, that is irrelevant. I am a teacher in a very deprived area working in a less than desireable school - I know what some young people are up to and are capable of. Many 'good' teenagers are far from angels - up to all sorts behind their parent's backs that they get away with because they're calculated and clever and co-ordinated with their friends! By far the majority of frustrated and angry teens have family and step family dynamics that are less than perfect. Not all troubled teens come from 'broken homes'. Indeed, one of the most difficult teens I have worked with comes from possibly the most sensible, well-managed, financially secure household you could ever hope to have. But many children do struggle with the crap their parents put them through when their relationships breakdown. It would be rare that both 'sides' don't contribute to that (I've had one hell of a week with my ex myself and realise I could have done it differently but in the heat of the moment what happens happens). My school would have considered it responsible to pass on a father hitting his daughter to Social Services too. Indeed, to not do so would surely be neglecting a duty of care. Next time it could be far worse and should the child be hurt worse or killed, who do you think would take the flack for that?

OP - you need to change your attitude. Your husband has 'made' this situation, more than likely with your help and support and even more help and support from his ex wife. It is an opportunity to do right by his children and get things working better for everyone. Don't dismiss it as the mother's problem. The children have two parents who need to work this out, and as part of their lives, you are also part of it.

ChinaCupsandSaucers Sat 19-Oct-13 11:26:02

SS will Already have "involvement" - there would automatically be a referral to SS at the time the behaviour was criminalised.

The fact that they decided to do nothing is not what surprises me; what is unbelievable is that some posters on this thread are holding the OP accountable for the lack of professional involvement in her DSD life.

louby44 Sat 19-Oct-13 14:58:06

notyomomma

It's not as black and white as you make out. She hasn't been violent 'for years'. Her parents split up when she was 9 and this obviously had an effect. I wasn't around then so really can't comment. She has always been an angry child, her and her dad are very similar in temprement. Her aggression has got worse over the last 12 months when her mum split from her long term partner of 6 years. He was a stabilising influence on both girls. Mum attempted suicide over New Year, the girls were never told about this as far as we know. Mum may have since told them. DSD15 had some counselling 2 years ago through school as she was having issues with attendance.

Both parents have attended parents evenings regularly where the girls were seen to be happy and functioning well with their studies.

She doesn't live with an ex con. This man is her mother's boyfriend who she has been dating off and on since the summer, he doesn't live with them.

We are honestly all just normal people. When I read back what people presume about me, my DP and our lives it makes us sound like some dysfunctional misfits, we really aren't like that. I'm a primary school teacher and my DP holds a managerial position in a large global company.

We have had a happy family life (with all 4 of our kids) weekends away, family outings and parties, fantastic holidays abroad, visits to the cinema, all normal stuff until recently. Mainly when DSD hit 15 and resisted visiting here and started demanding money, lying to her dad (and mum) and just generally being awful!

Mumofboys I presume your kids are pre-teens because you would have said. Honestly working with teenagers is TOTALLY , UTTERLY different than living with them. I can't stress that enough. It is utter madness talking to a teenager sometimes, they are exasperating!

I'm not going to change my attitude. We support SS involvement. My DSD is the one that needs help not my DP.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now