I'm so cross and upset

(70 Posts)
arggggggh Sun 24-Feb-13 16:00:13

DSD is never allowed to come on holiday with us. Her mum always makes an excuse up... I've no idea why, all I can think of is that it's down to jealousy.

We're planning on going to Disney in December which means she would have to have three days off school. Her mum put in a holiday form for it last week and it's come back as a no.

We don't know what to do... We're taking DD out of school for 2 days for the holiday but her school doesn't have holiday forms etc and we're going to (I know this is wrong..) say she's been poorly. We can't afford to go in holiday time at all, it's just so expensive.

We don't see why DSD mum cant just ring her in sick for a few days... honestly, it's going to be near Christmas and they don't do any serious work at school then..
don't want her missing out AGAIN, no matter what we do she's never allowed to come (this is the first time we would be going in school time btw)

Are We being hideously unreasonable for asking her to have 3 days off school? I'm so doubled up in anger/upset I think my judgement is off.

We don't see why DSD mum cant just ring her in sick for a few days.

Because it is lying. And you will be expecting your DSD to lie too.

usualsuspect Sun 24-Feb-13 16:03:00

Would you be willing to pay the unauthorised absence fine?

So the school say no but its still her mums fault.


bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 24-Feb-13 16:03:44

Your DSD's mum put in the holiday request, is that right? And it's been refused by the school? How is she then preventing the holiday if she's done what you asked, and it's the school that said no? Sorry, not too clear on why the mum is now preventing the holiday due to 'jealousy'.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Sun 24-Feb-13 16:03:53

I do hope you're not for real.

arggggggh Sun 24-Feb-13 16:05:16

Ok, I'm being unreasonable about going in school time

Do holiday forms even exist anymore?

JaquelineHyde Sun 24-Feb-13 16:05:51

So you want your DSD's mum to lie and you want your DSD to lie as well. hmm

Your DSD's Mum has tried to get the days off and so she hasn't stood in your way at all and has actually done everything she can within the rules to allow your DSD to attend the holiday.

Why exactly are you angry...No, no sorry 'doubled up in anger' what a ridiciulous over reaction!!

Why doesn't your husband contact his daughters school and try to negotiate to get the days off? Or is he far too busy being agry at the wrong person as well?

UC Sun 24-Feb-13 16:06:04

Where I live, holidays are unauthorised absence from school. However, nothing happens unless you miss more than 10 days. I have taken my kids out of school, on unauthorised absence, for a week before.

Why does DSD's mum have to ring in sick? Why does she have to lie for you? Just take 3 unauthorised days off school.

The mum isn't preventing it, if she was she'd have told you no.

The school said no.

And taking children out in term time isn't allowed.

Stop being angry with the mother, you're actually angry with the wrong person

And you shouldn't be taking a child out in term time.

usualsuspect Sun 24-Feb-13 16:07:13

Of course holiday forms exist.

allnewtaketwo Sun 24-Feb-13 16:07:15

I personally wouldn't take my child out if school just do a holiday is cheaper. And from the mothers perspective, why should she help you reduce the cost of the holiday whilst having to lie to the school

arggggggh Sun 24-Feb-13 16:07:15

Sorry no she's not preventing this holiday, I've explained badly, my apologise.

She has prevented 4 other holidays though.

We are now going to try and shift this holiday to another time in the holidays.

UC Sun 24-Feb-13 16:07:21

Yes, holiday forms exist, but you always get unauthorised absence, unless it's something like a family wedding abroad.

I'm not clear either on why this is your DSD's mum's fault. If she agreed to put in the holiday form, then maybe she won't object to you taking 3 days' unauthorised absence.

WeAreEternal Sun 24-Feb-13 16:07:53

If she had already had a holiday form request rejected they will be in 'alert' for the sickness call.

There is no way you will be able to get away with it. Someone I know did just that and was sent a fine straight away as it was obvious what she was doing.
The thing that makes even more unreasonable in your situation is that it will be DSD's mother who will be fined and have that mark against her with the school.

You are not being unreasonable to want her to go on holiday with you though.
You could maybe ring the school yourself or have your DP call and ask again.

usualsuspect Sun 24-Feb-13 16:09:15

My DD got fined for unauthorized absence when she asked permission, was refused but took her DS on holiday anyway.

It does happen.

arggggggh Sun 24-Feb-13 16:09:26

Holiday forms don't exist at all where I live, It's the same as UC It just goes down as an unauthorized absence. Last year DD had a day off that her head teacher said was fine but even that still went down as unauthorized. Just how it works here? I don't understand how it works elsewhere?

HecateWhoopass Sun 24-Feb-13 16:09:30

I am glad you appear to have changed the way you are presenting this.

She asked.

The school refused.

The school is not stupid. If the child is suddenly taken ill on the exact same days that were originally requested - they will work it out!

And will it be you paying any fines or anything?

arggggggh Sun 24-Feb-13 16:11:56

I personally wouldn't take my child out if school just do a holiday is cheaper. And from the mothers perspective, why should she help you reduce the cost of the holiday whilst having to lie to the school

Because why would she want her DD to lose out? I don't understand, DSD always wants to come with us and her mum never allows it. It breaks my heart to leave her behind.

JaquelineHyde Sun 24-Feb-13 16:12:12

So what you are actually trying to get at here by harping on about the holiday forms all the time, but you are clearly to cowardly to say, is that you don't believe that your DSD's Mum even bothered asking.

So you think she is lying to you to block the holiday?

Well with an attitude like that I would be objecting to my daughter spending time away with you as well.

arggggggh Sun 24-Feb-13 16:14:40

I am glad you appear to have changed the way you are presenting this

Yes I felt muchos dickus within 0.5 seconds of posting, should have calmed down first blush

Of course we would pay fines etc.. I just don't understand why they have refused... what is the point of a holiday form if they do not grant holiday... It's only 3 days and we have asked 10 months in advance.

usualsuspect Sun 24-Feb-13 16:16:34

Do you think her mum is lying then?

No way on this earth would I lie to please my ex and his new partner. I'd be the one in trouble at the school at the fines to pay.

Have the other holidays she's ruined with her jealousy been in term time too?

arggggggh Sun 24-Feb-13 16:16:59

Err No Jaqueline, I do believe that the form was filled in and sent in and came back as a no. Never said that I didn't believe that had happened.

usualsuspect Sun 24-Feb-13 16:18:39

Then it's not her mums fault is it?

The school said no, she doesn't want to risk a fine so not much you can do, except change the date of the holiday.

So why the hell do you think she's doing it because she's jealous? She asked the school, the school said no?

You need to ask the school.

Actually, scrub that. The child's PARENT needs to ask the school and you need to step away.

arggggggh Sun 24-Feb-13 16:19:05

Argh No I don't think she lied I just don't understand how their holiday forms work etc, If someone could explain i'd be grateful. I REALLY don't know.

And NO freddie.. I already said this is the first holiday we have requested a few days off school...

usualsuspect Sun 24-Feb-13 16:21:12

You fill in the form and the school either says yes or no.

Whether you then go on holiday anyway is up to you.But you do risk a fine.

JaquelineHyde Sun 24-Feb-13 16:21:15

Oh right it's just that you don't appear to believe that the form even exists as you keep questioning if they are used. That would certainly explain why you were 'doubled up in anger'

But why would your initial reaction to be angry with the mum unless you believed she lied about asking for the time off?

Why didn't your partner ask for it, if he has parental responsibility? Why was it up to the mum to do your dirty work for you?

purpleroses Sun 24-Feb-13 16:28:37

If you've previously had lots of difficulty in persuading DSD's mum to let her come on holiday with you, it would seem sensible to try for a holiday she'd have the least possible reasons to oppose. A foreign holiday during term time is not the way to go. It's setting DSD up to not be allowed to come sad

purpleroses Sun 24-Feb-13 16:30:28

Both my DCs schools have holiday forms. And at both schools you need to have some special reason for them to say yes. I managed it for 1 day for a family wedding recently but they definitely turn people down when it's just a normal holiday. Saying you can't afford to go in holidays is also not a reason they'll accept, because everyone could say that.

DioneTheDiabolist Sun 24-Feb-13 16:30:52

OP, I would question the wisdom of expecting your DC to lie about this holiday. My DS is going on holiday during term time this year. I did think of fibbing, but I couldn't ask DS to do it.

There is no way your DC will be unable to tell everyone about what a great time she had at Disney.

allnewtaketwo Sun 24-Feb-13 16:41:41

OP, if you are "doubled up in anger" and "heartbroken", then I really think its time you took a step back and stop getti g so emotionally involved. You can't change how someone else chooses to parent their child

HecateWhoopass Sun 24-Feb-13 16:48:32

ah, we all have our muchos dickus moments grin

Why didn't your DP ask for the time off though? Why didn't he contact the school?

I would say just take DSD after agreeing with her Mum that you will pay any fines and hassle from school.

ZenNudist Sun 24-Feb-13 16:57:55

Forget Disneyland it's arm & a leg time. Go nice beachy holiday somewhere not too touristy. In summer hol.

Get your dh to ring his dd's school and ask when she would be allowed to take time off school. Clearly holiday forms exist for a reason, so there must be some school time she can take off. Work with them to find a time that works for everyone.

LtEveDallas Sun 24-Feb-13 17:08:29

How old is DSD? Does she have a bad record of attendance? Does the school have a bad record of attendance? Is she doing well or struggling in her classes?

All those things will impact on whether the school gives authorised absence or not. When DD was in Reception we asked for 3 days off school before the summer holidays (for a good reason) and it was given happily. A year later the schools attendance record was the worst in the county so we didn't ask again - we knew it would put the school in a bad position.

It's not your DSD mums fault. You shouldn't blame her, and I second the poster who asks why DSDs dad didn't do the asking in the first place? When DH was going to Iraq and wasn't going to see DSD for over 6 months he asked the school for special permission to take her out for a holiday. The school granted the request due to the special circumstances and DSD mum didn't get involved.

Strongertogether Mon 25-Feb-13 12:42:47

I agree with the other posters, you cannot expect the mum to lie for you. It sounds like she's done what you've asked, it isn't her fault the request was turned down. I hope that you manage to work something out.

theredhen Mon 25-Feb-13 13:13:42

My DS primary school had a policy of considering week long holiday requests but refusing all "long weekends" or short breaks.

Not sure I ever worked out why, but it was their policy. confused

Zavi Mon 25-Feb-13 13:15:18

Sounds to me like you are all too ready to blame your DSD's mum given half the chance!

Anyway, why didn't DSD's Dad contact the school to try and arrange the time off? If he has got parental responsibility for DSD then DSD's mum is not allowed to "control" what Dad does with his daughter in his time with her (though he would need her agreement to go abroad).

If DSD's Dad was a bit more actively involved with DSD - such as contacting the school himself instead of leaving it up to DSD's mum to make arrangements on his behalf - then he might not find DSD's mum quite so "controlling" and you might find her not quite so "jealous" and she might find it a bit easier to trust her daughter going away with you...

arggggggh Mon 25-Feb-13 13:56:31

DP rang DSD school today and there was no form filled out or handed in, at all. They are posting him one.

There's alot of band wagon jumping going on in this post and people jumping to conclusions...

I know I came and spouted off and was unfair, but it's because I have no one to do that to IRL. Sorry.

NatashaBee Mon 25-Feb-13 14:10:01

I agree with everything Zavi said. Lots of schools have a policy of refusing all absences, you have the option to take her anyway and have it marked as an unauthorised absence and risk being fined. You don't need to lie about her being sick, that's very unfair on your DSD. Just tell the school that you accept it will be marked as unauthorised and you're going anyway. If your DSD's mother has lied to you, then that's wrong - but you also wanted to lie to the school about your DSD being sick. What on earth is all this lying going to teach a 9 year old?!

arggggggh Mon 25-Feb-13 14:18:41

Well it looks like the school is going to grant 3 days which is all we need. Now her mum is furious because DP went over her head to the school. So no doubt she'll be starting a war over that now.

Think I'm going to just leave this post now. I see how badly I've come off, I apologise for that. Thank you to everyone that helped and gave advice.

NotaDisneyMum Mon 25-Feb-13 14:21:33

DP rang DSD school today and there was no form filled out or handed in, at all. They are posting him one

There's not really a lot of point though, is there? Your DSD's Mum obviously doesn't want her to go on holiday with her Dad and you, and has already apparently lied to your DP in order to try and prevent it happening.
Your DSD's mum has to give permission for your DSD to leave the country without her, and is she really going to do that? If you choose to go anyway, without Mums written permission, you risk getting stopped at immigration either here in the UK or in the States if she has made a call saying that your DSD is being taken out the country without permission.
What should be a holiday of a lifetime could well turn into a nightmare - it's not worth it, surely?

I'm pleased the school were able to agree it for you so quickly.

But I agree with NotaDisneyMum. Do you hold DSD's passport?

arggggggh Mon 25-Feb-13 14:26:17

I don't think DSD mum would do that, She likes to make out to DSD that she's the good guy, and we never tell her about the lies her mum tells.

I don't know what to do any more, I feel so deflated about it all.

lynniep Mon 25-Feb-13 14:27:37

Theres a reason this isnt in AIBU
Because you are. Very. I wont pull my kids out in term time either.

It's not up to you to do anything.

It's up to your DP. Step away and detach.

arggggggh Mon 25-Feb-13 14:29:36

They haven't agreed it yet.

No we haven't got DSD passport. We paid for it years ago but it was sent to her house.

Just hitting brick walls from every direction at the moment

So how do you know the school are going to grant 3 days? I'm confused.

Why the fuck does your DP enable this woman to control his life like this? Why if he paid for the passport and is an equal parent, did he get it sent to her house?

He really really needs to wise up.

SweetSeraphim Mon 25-Feb-13 14:33:27

You said that the school were going to grant you 3 days confused

NotaDisneyMum Mon 25-Feb-13 14:36:56

Why is a holiday in Disney so important? It's clearly something that can't be achieved without a great deal of stress and anxiety - which defeats the object of having a holiday, surely?

Lots of things in life aren't fair - but you can either get het up about them, or make the best of it. I'm sure if you wanted to, you could create memories that are just as special for your DSD and DD on a UK holiday taken during the time that your DSD is regularly with you.

arggggggh Mon 25-Feb-13 14:37:39

I never said they had granted it.. I said it looks like they will, DP spent ages on the phone to them and they agreed a 3 day holiday from a certain date but still said the form needed to be completed, so I guess they are still to actually grant it.

When we did the passport there was a reason DP couldn't do it and it had to be DSD mum, but I really can't remember what it was. It was 2 or 3 years ago now.

Is there a reason why you are being SO rude freddie? DP has MH problems, He's a million times better then he was before I met him but he still needs alot of help. He is wise, he just has problems with confrontations and such like. Which is why I have to be involved so much, which DSD mum understands.

arggggggh Mon 25-Feb-13 14:41:34

I wish we could notadisneymum but any sniff of a holiday (UK or not) and her mum will make sure it doesn't happen at all. On one hand I think why should we all miss out because of her mum but on the other I feel like I don't want to go without her.

I didn't think I was that rude. confused

your DP needs to step up and deal with things because he is the parent of this child and you are not. The unpleasant fact is that he enabled his ex-wife to have the passport. He enabled the lying over the form.

He needs to get a bit more proactive.

In my opinion.

But if you know her mum won't let her have a holiday, why do you tell the kids? Why do you make it such a big deal? Why can't you book a holiday on the QT and have the kids come home from school and go right kids, in the care, we're for Butlins for the weekend (or whatever)

You're enabling this control from the ex by the way you are handling it.

(I assume your ex does have PR? And no restrictions on contact?)

CAR not care.

arggggggh Mon 25-Feb-13 14:44:54

"step up and deal with things" he is trying, the call to the school today was the first phone call he has made in 4 years. No one can accuse him of not trying.

This thread is just making me really sad, I'm just going to leave it. Thanks for the help.

But he's a parent. He does need to step up and deal with it. Or you need to accept how it's going to be.

I don't mean to be rude or hurtful, I'm sure he's a great guy, I can hear in your posts that you desperately want this holiday but you can't control other people, you can only control your reaction to them, and if he keeps doing what he's always done, he'll get what he's always got - in other words, the control will continue.

he needs to decide what he wants. And then take action. Or be passive. And live with the control.

(not meant rudely, or harshly, just blunt)

NotaDisneyMum Mon 25-Feb-13 14:48:50

But you don't need permission to take your DSD on holiday in the UK - plan it quietly without letting the girls know and then when your DSD arrives for regular contact, off you go to make some memories!

On one hand I think why should we all miss out because of her mum but on the other I feel like I don't want to go without her.

Welcome to step-parenting. You can either allow yourself to be controlled by the unreasonable behaviour of others, or you can make the best of it and do as much as you can to minimise the impact on the DC's.

zeeboo Mon 25-Feb-13 14:49:52

Freddie your lack of insight into those with mental health problems is staggering.

Zeeboo - you are incorrect. I have plenty of insight into MH problems.

But MH problems or not, if this couple want to not allow the ex to control their lives then they have to minimise the opportunities for her to exert that control. And MH problems or not the OP's partner has to find a way to do that, because he is the parent of this child. He is the one with parental responsibility, not the OP.

winechocolatesleep Mon 25-Feb-13 15:01:08

I don't normally post but the replies on this thread are ridiculous, the op wants to involve her dsd and not leave her out,she has already explained that the mum has stopped other holidays which would suggest she is jealous,all she wants to do is take her on a lovely holiday and shes getting flamed for it

She was getting flamed for saying the mother should lie to the school and make the child lie.

Even if the OP's DSD's mum (alphabet soup, anyone?) was jealous and has blocked holidays in the past for that reason, I don't think this particular trip is the best way to go about getting DSD included in Dad's family. If nothing else, it sets a really bad precedent. The DSD has two parents split across two households. If Dad pulls her out of school for a holiday, on the grounds that it's cheaper to do so, who's to say Mum shouldn't? And if Mum decided, "that's not fair, now I'll pull her out of school too," you've a kid missing twice as much school!

I agree with NADM - why does it have to be Disneyland? As nice as it is, a trip to Disney is not essential to a well-developed childhood. My family could never afford the trip, even if my folks believed in yanking us kids out of school to do it. We visited family instead.

This is coming from someone who had the blues not long ago about not being allowed to take DSD to see her family in the States at Christmas. My DH asked his exW to, over and over. But after all the fuss on our end, it turned out it wouldn't have worked logistically - after a trip over last summer, we learned DSD takes a solid week to recover from jet lag, so how were we going to give her time with Mum and Mum's family, time with Dad and Dad's family, and time with my family? So, we're taking her to the States again next summer. During school vacation!

*taking DSD to see my family in the States - so, DSD's stepfamily, which believes she is just plain family.

flurp Tue 26-Feb-13 11:39:23

I don't think anyone was being rude - because you didn't mention till the last minute that DH has MH problems. I agree that you maybe need to detach a little.
NADM is right. Even if the school grant permission the Mum won't give permission or hand over her passport so it is all going to be a pointless exercise which will only cause undue stress to your DH and DSD.
As a SM I would say just pick your battles. Surely you can have a UK holiday in your time with DSD without having to get permission.

NotaDisneyMum Tue 26-Feb-13 16:04:37

"step up and deal with things" he is trying, the call to the school today was the first phone call he has made in 4 years. No one can accuse him of not trying

It doesn't sound like your DP is able to act as an equal parent in his DD's life right at the moment. Have you looked into the support that is available for your DSD and DH? It sounds like the shared care arrangement that is in place for his DD is only being achieved because of the responsibility he has delegated to you?

While I understand your desire to "rescue" your DSD from two parents who are failing to provide her with what she needs, the only way you can do that is to secure Parental Responsibility, and act on your DSD behalf as an equal, alongside her parents.
Until then, you can only hope to influence the situation by supporting your DP to be the best parent he can, even if that means the shared care arrangement is not tenable right now. Trying to make arrangements yourself, and fulfil a parental role in this situation is likely to end in heartache for both you and your DSD.

Based on the situation you have described, an overseas trip with your DD and DSD, along with your DH would place you in the role of sole/primary carer not only for both the DC's but also your DH. If your DH is struggling with phone calls, then negotiating airports, theme parks and guest check-ins even without the possibility of problems at immigration, must be a daunting prospect. You won't be able to intervene and assist if problems do arise when travelling with your DSD; it will be down to your DP to do that alone - you would be excluded.

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