Sick of adult SCs being so needy and entitled

(58 Posts)
sudaname Sat 29-Dec-12 20:41:33

Right - had enough now - and guess what the last straw was that broke the camels back - a 3amp fuse for a plughmm. I mean he (adult SS) actually lives down the road from a diy store and actually drove past a little local diy shop to call in on daddy to get one off him. He actually texted first to check he had one and he wasnt just wanting to visit anyway for a chat or anything iyswim cos he said he couldnt stop. Last week it was a small philips screwdriver and DH sent him away with a selection as he wanted one quite small. He came back again that time too to ask for another one as they werent right - did he bring first lot back - did he fuck no!
Disclaimers now - he drives and has a well paid job and pays regular visits just to see his dad seperate from these 'B&Q' visits as l call them.
DH is a builder so son knows his dad will always have most things you can think of in the diy dept. l cant talk to DH about it cos he gets defensive - the most l can get away with is the odd sarky comment about having the B&Q sign removed etc. But he and his son just laugh

The other adult SS treats his dad like a cashpoint - £40. £50 here and there - even up to a £100 recently. Never pays him back and a third pay day has just gone past when he's said he would repay £50 and nothing. DH again just gets defensive so l can only say so much. Last month at a relatives house l had nagged him into bringing it up and he said 'you owe me some money btw' and SS said 'yeah l know l'll pay you some back when l get paid on 15th' 15th came and went - no mention. But SS did come round specially to get his Christmas present (we had gone away but he asked especially to have them left somewhere for him so he wouldnt have to wait till we came back ) - £50 worth of vouchers for a computer chain. Disclaimers - he too can drive and has good well paid job and no family etc to support.

Is it me or would you if your son owed you over £150 give him £50 for Christmas or just write off part of the debt? That's what l did last year when my son was buying my car off me - l just sent him a card and wrote off two £50 repayments for his birthday and then for Xmas. He was happy with that and wouldnt have taken money off me when he owed me money.

I just feel like we cant have anything - DH bought me a quite expensive piece of jewellry for Xmas and told me to say to his family that he'd saved up for it (WTAF?) It's like he doesnt want them to know mean daddy has some money and he's not sharing it with us - boo-hoo. We recently bought a few new kitchen appliances and SS1 commented - have you two won the lottery or something ?? I feel we cant have a joint bank account because l would go apeshit if he drew some out to 'lend' SS2. We were recently going to buy a carpet shampooer/vacuum but l 'changed my mind' after SS1 had already booked it before even bought.

Sorry am just rambling now and l dont hold out much hope for changing my DHs What's mine is theirs' attitude or their entitled attitude so dont know what any of you can suggest really.

sudaname Sun 30-Dec-12 13:11:24

bump sad somebody must have a suggestion - l feel like l live in a commune sometimes.

sudaname Sun 30-Dec-12 13:12:52

Sudaname l think the only solution is to emigrate.

HTH.

grin

I personally don't see the issue with the tool borrowing. My dad is also a builder and if need anything for doing up the house or repairs i ask him.

I owe my dad money yet he still gave me some for Xmas.

badguider Sun 30-Dec-12 13:15:59

tbh i think the b&q thing is fine, i still borrow baking stuff from my mum and ask her about baking and stuff even though i can go go lakeland myself or look online but i think about baking and i think fondly of my mum and it's a wee bonding thing even just to drop in for a particular size of cake tin even if i don't stay to chat..

but the money is another issue, your dh can be as generous as he wants to but asking you to lie about the present to you is out of order i'd say - it's fine for him to care for and be generous to his dc but he should be making it clear to them that he also cares for and wants to be generous to you as his partner. if i were you i'd takle that point only (how he treats you and tells them he treats you) and not worry about how he treats his dc.

sudaname Sun 30-Dec-12 14:05:52

But SP it's really more the fact he never ever brings it back so whenever l want to do anything or in the unlikely event DH (you know what some of these builders are like at home !) wants to do a job he or l are always missing something we need cos it's always something that's gone to SSs house. It is incredibly frustrating. l mean one time l cleaned out the garage and went to sweep up and and yeah youve guessed it the bloody sweeping brush had even been 'borrowed' because we had the audacity to have two - one for kitchen, one for garage or outside use. So off we'll trot to buy another screwdriver,wallpaper scraper, new paintbrushes whatever rather than him ask for it back. l know it sounds like l am being petty but l feel l just cant build up a household iykwim. Surely everybody should have their own basic tools in their own house.
I can not even imagine or wouldnt dream of driving past a diy shop as in OP to 'borrow' a 3amp fuse or some stanley knife blades (last weeks visit) ffs.
I dont mind at all DH doing jobs for his son - of course not - when your dad has a skill like that l wouldnt expect him to look in Yellow Pages for a builder.
Neither would l expect him to pay to hire an industrial sander for example when his dad has one.

Also badguider l know what you mean about the bonding thing but as l say he doesnt stop and he never returns things - he just gets what he needs and goes. I might be wrong but am sure you return your mums baking tins at some point even if you forget until she needs them again or even has to ask for them. Also l dont think constantly lending money to someone and them constantly renaging on paying it back and letting them off is being generous. It impacts on our household finances and limits our ability to run them as a couple. l have even suggested to DH that we have a joint bank account for extras etc and when his son or mine want to borrow money we lend it to them out of that account only (my son does borrow occasionally but very good at paying back) and then l can 'remind' his son if he doesnt repay. DH wont hear of it - it's like he is scared of offending either of them by asking for anything back. Sick of the pussyfooting around tbh.

I have a tool kit and some ladders at mine that are my dads. Been here nearly a year grin i also have Allan keys that belong to my step dad so its just my dad I ask grin

My dad lies to his girlfriend about lending me money. She doesn't agree with it as in not biologically his. She can go fuck her self tbh. The lying annoys me and i understand why it would bother you

PuggyMum Sun 30-Dec-12 14:17:48

Hmmm. I don't think think either money or the lending off items should wind you up as much as they seem to.

We've got tools that belong to pil at our house and there's always money being owed for birthdays etc between DH and his dad / brother. I don't get involved at all.

I do agree that asking you to lie about your gift is a bit off but why should you need to say anything at all? It was a gift to you and how your DH paid for it is his business.

My advice is leave them to it. In the scheme of family annoyances, I wouldn't let this kind of thing rock the boat.

Its not just*

Oh and my dad wouldn't go buy more. He would come collect them from mine if he needs them. Think he is using my house has storage tbh grin

sudaname Sun 30-Dec-12 14:22:48

Badguider sorry - meant to say thanks for very good words re: DH feeling he has to hide any generosity to me from his sons. I am going to memorise them and say them to DH at the appropriate moment. smile I have been struggling to put it into words how to broach this with DH.

RubyrooUK Sun 30-Dec-12 14:27:38

Sorry, think borrowing stuff is part of being in a family. I'd definitely borrow stuff like that if my dad was a builder. If I forgot to bring it back, I'd expect my dad to pop round rather than buy a new set.

As for the money, well, it is annoying if sums aren't paid back.

My mum and stepdad have an account each and a joint one. The joint one pays their household bills or covers their joint purchases and they contribute the same amount each month to it. The individual ones they do use sometimes to buy their kids things or lend money. None of the joint money is used for this and if either of them want to use their own earned money for their children, the other one is fine with that. Couldn't you try that?

sudaname Sun 30-Dec-12 14:42:48

SPs grin @ storage. l think that's one of things that winds me up - the fact that DH pussyfoots around them both so much to the point where he cant even say to them 'Ere, have you still got my plane/battery charger/whatever son cos l need it' Or when his other son who basically just lives beyond his means safe in the knowledge he can always fall back on his dad - asks for yet another 'loan' why cant he just say to him 'Yes, but l want it paying back this time - youve still not paid me back the last six lots lot'. Or even some jokey remark to draw attention to his previous 'defaults'.

I guess it's DH l should be just as annoyed at really for enabling their piss taking forgetfulness.

SP l bet you do genuinely borrow it though and not just take it with no intention of paying it back. Thinking of it what you think of your dads girlfriend is probably what my SSs think about me in all this grin
.

I very much doubt they think of you the way i think of her. Just because Im not bologically his she thinks even though he adopted me he shouldn't bother with me. Fucking loon she is grin

sudaname Sun 30-Dec-12 15:04:36

Yes Rooby we already have a joint account but it's for bills etc. I would love to have a joint account with both paying money for extras in as l say but then it would cause problems as then l would resent money going on a one way trip to my SS out of it - but on the upside as l've said l then would feel more entitled to remind him that he owed that money as he would then owe it to both of us.

TBH l get the impression most people on here wont agree with me but l feel that as his wife it is my business now whether from joint acct or not and does affect me financially and in other ways and i often feel like just saying to DSS 'Stop keep borrowing money off your dad and not paying it back you little shit'. There has been times when he has hit him for a lot of money (car fines etc- to avoid bailiffs taking his car on one occasion) and l know for a fact (though could never prove it) that DH has cancelled a weekend away or a purchase we were about to make he has suddenly 'changed his mind ' about and l know full well the real reason is the earmarked money has been 'loaned' out. He will always say - no its not that i- l was going to pay for that weekend/purchase/whatever out of some other money. But the timing is so obvious.

Dinosaurhunter Sun 30-Dec-12 15:09:39

Op I understand what you mean but I think your maybe over reacting about the tool borrowing , my dad always borrows things off my dh but never gives them back !
In terms of the money I'm a step parent to a 19 ds . He recently borrowed £400 off us until pay day but never paid it back , never even mentioned it or said sorry , so Xmas day he had a shock when he had no presents and we said lets call it quits with the money . However after the shock had worn off he was fine and seemed pleased tO not have to pay it back ( he still got lots of things from family , mums side , step dads side etc ...
I think the key here is that you and your dp work together .

Arisbottle Sun 30-Dec-12 15:12:30

Families borrow things .

I would hate to think that my stepson was facing bailiffs and we refused to help so we could have a dirty weekend away .

sudaname Sun 30-Dec-12 15:17:50

SP Ahh - thanks, that's the nicest thing anyones ever said to me hmm

grin

I understand your last post now - it did confuse me a little when you said not biologically 'his' when you mentioned you had a stepdad aswell l thought you meant his girlfriend.
[easily confused]

Now she sounds the sort who gives us stepmums their bad name. I would never ever try and stop my DH from seeing or having a relationship with his two sons. l just wish everytime they visited they didnt have to want something and always walk out the door with goods or a wad of money in their pocket angry

Thats another aspect that's upset me lately. DH is such a lovely lovely man and l know its par for the course to take advantage of your parents etc but one of them in particuliar never ever comes to just see his dad or wont go for a drink with him - which l know upsets DH greatly as his dad died when he was a teenager so he never got chance - but just uses him - only comes when he wants something , no 'social' calls or visits ever.

I have a bio dad, my dad who adopted me when he was with my mum and now a step dad my mum is with. It is confusing tbh grin

my dad will only lend me money if i really need it. Never lends me more then necessary. I don't ask him often. Only twice in the past 3\4 year.

i understand it bothering you if they are just intouch when they want something.

sudaname Sun 30-Dec-12 15:42:15

Dinosaur - yes about the tool borrowing - l think l have now realised that it's as much DHs fault for feeling he cant 'offend' by asking for things back as it is my DSS1s fault for not bringing them back. lm presuming obviously if your DH asked he would get them back and probably my DH would too - so lhave distributed my annoyance a little bit on that one now.

As for the money that's exactly what l suggested DH do this year and as stated in OP thats what l have done with my son in the past and he was fine with it - but DH once again was worried about upsetting his little darling so wouldnt be 'that mean' to quote him.

Arisbottle Nah - l'd have let them take his car. He had plenty of warnings and broken payment arrangements and told plenty of lies to his dad about being on top of it etc despite the stream of debt collector letters coming through the door which despite our nagging to deal with we later found in a pile unopened in his bedroom (he lived with us at time). He also lied to us about two court appearances he chose to ignore about this unpaid fine and first we knew was when bailiffs rolled up at door to take the car (his dad bought him btw).

Sorry but l'd have let him stand at bus stop in wind and rain to 'reflect' for a year or so while he saved up to pay it off/ buy another car and how undeserving he was of being bought something that valuable in the first place to allow it to crushed/sold at auction whatever they do with them.

Arisbottle Sun 30-Dec-12 15:46:27

I would want to try and help him maintain as good a credit rating as possible. So I may pay for the car but then keep it until he has paid me back.

sudaname Sun 30-Dec-12 15:58:55

Oh no, not a bit of it - DH just paid it - think it was about £800 - escalated from a riduculously small amount and SS just could jump back in it and go out in it an hour later as if nothing had happened. He then went on to run up more escalated parking/speeding/driving without insurance fines and penalties over the following months again as if nothing had happened. You see l think the only favour DH can do him is to remove himself as a crutch. DH unfortunately thinks the only way is to keep bailing him out. I dont think he will ever learn to live within his means or avoid getting into debt or unnecessarily escalated debt while he's always got 'Daddys overdraft' to fall back on

onedev Sun 30-Dec-12 16:28:18

I think the problem sounds like its with your DH, not your stepchildren, sorry. If he's lying to you & lying to them, he doesn't sound too great tbh.

Borrowing stuff happens all the time in families I know & like others have said, we don't buy new but go & pick up the stuff or ask for it to be dropped round.

It sounds like he feels guilty or is trying to make amends for something, hence why he's so worried about upsetting them. I really think you should be directing your feelings to him, not them. Sorry, hope things get better.

NotaDisneyMum Sun 30-Dec-12 16:31:32

So it really is your DP you are mad at, not your SDC? wink

Your DSC don't know any different - they've been brought up knowing that part of life is that Daddy will bail them out when they need it - so why on earth would you expect anything more of them?

Your DP, on the other hand, has a choice every time he hands money over, or replaces yet another item that has been "borrowed".

I don't think they will ever change until he does - your DSC are now adults with independent lives and income, and part of their life is having Daddy as a safety net. My exH has lived his life in the same way - and he is still living the same lifestyle now he's in his 40's. Debts/loans are written off a "christmas presents", house deposits are paid and holidays subsidised. It was one of the reasons we split - I wanted to live our lives financially independent from them, but he didn't see why we needed to, and spent his way into debt in the secure knowledge that his parents would bail us out. I hated it.

Your DP is not doing them any favours at all. One day, he won't be able to bail them out - especially if he sacrifices his life with you in order to do so.

Are you the same poster whose ss wanted to come round for a bath with his kids when you were just about to go on your Sunday drive?

mumandboys123 Sun 30-Dec-12 17:31:00

sounds like a normal family to me and I'm not sure that any parent 'lends' money to their children with the expectation that they will see it again. I think most parents like to help out - some have less to lose than others, I guess, and others are perhaps cleverer in the way that they lend so it is clearly seen as a loan and not a 'loan' IYSWIM.

If your husband is lying to you, it's him that you need to tackle, not your step son. Sorry.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Sun 30-Dec-12 17:35:36

I think it all sounds pretty normal, I probably wouldn't take your DHs approach but his is fairly common

Petal02 Sun 30-Dec-12 18:03:39

I remember the poster whose adult stepson used to arrive on a Sunday morning, with his wife and numerous children in tow, to have baths. I took up the best part of the day, and used to mean the OP and her DH couldn't go out for the day on Sundays.

I don't think it was Suda who posted about it - however knowing the history of Suda's DSS, it's exactly the sort of stunt he'd pull, and his Dad would let him get away with it!

sudaname Sun 30-Dec-12 20:15:53

Hiya Petal smile. No twasnt moi -or 'HWSBM' they havent any DCs for one but youre right about last bit. My DH would probably chuck me out the bath if he turned up for one ! confused

grin - grim times for me but we had some laughs though.

Bonsoir Mon 31-Dec-12 08:50:10

That's what families are for. You seem to be very resentful of the nice relationship your H has with his son.

Mosman Mon 31-Dec-12 08:59:39

I have adult brothers who when they ask to lend anything I consider I will never see it again and make the decision to lend accordingly.

AmberLeaf Mon 31-Dec-12 09:04:05

The tool thing is very normal.

I agree with whoever said about the storage thing!

The money thing is different, but, that is down to your DH as he has made it so they feel they can ask him. can he afford it?

If it impacts on family finances then its a problem, but if your DH can afford to do it, its up to him?

sudaname Tue 01-Jan-13 15:40:38

Bonsoir - l dont think constantly 'borrowing' money off your father even though you have a good job yourself and have no family commitments and very low outgoings but just want to live outside your means and telling him you are definitely going to pay him back when you have no intention of doing is enabling dishonesty and encouraging entitlement. Nothing 'nice' about that imo.
As for 'his nice relationship with his son' - as l have already said SS never ever comes near - ever - and l am not exaggerating - unless he wants something , usually money and l'm not talking about a tenner here a tenner there - l am talking about £30 to £50 minimum - owes him in the hundreds for last few months alone. His dad is constantly asking him to come round for tea or come for a drink or whatever but he always has an excuse.
I hate seeing the man l love having the piss taken out of him constantly - he was even asked by his son to put on a football bet for him cos son was at work and couldnt put it on. The stake totalled £30 (an accumulator type bet over the period of a football tournament) and of course next few times they spoke it wasnt mentioned. l was especially furious as he had borrowed money FOR A BET and when his dad casually mentioned it in our kitchen - months after the tournament had finished he actually got all arsey with his dad and called him a 'tight wad' and said 'ok ok you'll get your money dont worry' etc. Still waiting !
I just think the whole thing isnt healthy and his dad would serve him much better by not making it so readily available for him thereby forcing him to deal with whatever debts/problems he has. For example he keeps getting payday/very high interest loans etc - his dad knows this from the type of mail son received when he lived with us and he admitted it . Also as previously mentioned if he gets a £30 parking ticket for example he just ignores it till it escalates into hundreds or whatever.
Also it has a knock on effect on our finances/lifestyle as l've said where money earmarked for something for our house or whatever suddnely vanishes into this black hole.
But l'm just a wicked stepmother apparently. hmm

sudaname Tue 01-Jan-13 15:48:23

'I think' not 'l dont think'. Sorry.

sudaname Tue 01-Jan-13 16:12:02

Notadisneymum l could have written your post. It can actually split a couple up cant it, l can well imagine. l want financial independence from our adult families but practically have to count these 'loans' as a regular outgoing from our household so as stated l cant even have joint savings for anything or joint finances as a married couple as l know where a lot of it would end up going !
l recently had a bit of a windfall from a relative and l would have loved nothing more than to have shared it 50/50 with my lovely DH but there is no way l could have watched his son closing in on him with some conveniently timed 'crisis'. lnstead l just booked us a break and spent some money on our home on something mainly for DHs benefit.
Disclaimer - would have been fine with and fully expected DH to 'treat' his DCs - but trust me he would have been hit for more and wouldnt have got it back.

AmberLeaf Tue 01-Jan-13 16:36:28

I can see why it bothers you so much about the money, but don't you see it as a situation of your husbands creation?

He has made it that way.

It's like a grown up version of Disney parenting!

allnewtaketwo Tue 01-Jan-13 16:59:44

Yes it probably does happen in non step families, but at least that is of BOTH adults making. But in a step situation, the SP probably saw it coming a mile off, yet could either say nothing, or not be listened to (as parents tend to want to hear no I'll of their children from a non-parent, and are very protective of the children if the separated family). That makes it doubly frustrating for the SP. OP I feel your pain

sudaname Tue 01-Jan-13 23:01:04

Thank you Allnew that's it exactly. As said before l sometimes feel as though everything in our home and all our finances are communal. Whereas as you so eloquently explain - if they were 'our' adult children l would have a voice. As it is l am just badmouthing his son, whereas if it were our son it would be motherly concern ! I would categorically say 'No' we dont just 'lend' him more money without question. We sit down with him and help him get his debts sorted out - l even offered after my little windfall that if SS handed over all his debt collector/fines letters etc over and wrote a letter of permission for me to deal with them all on his behalf l would get it all sorted for him - make offers of settlement etc, see what debts l could get reduced or even written off for him and then he could pay me back without interest, which would save him a fortune, then he would have a fresh start.I have a background in the financial industry so know how to deal with all this.

But he wouldnt hear of it cos he knows l unlike his dad would insist on being paid back he would rather just keep getting hassle free money off his dad.

Amberleaf yes sure l do - l think l said as much a while back that l know it's my DHs fault to a large degree for not wanting to ask for things or money back. His sons have obviously caught on to this and become entitled.
But l dont accept that the son who keeps scrounging for the money is blameless, the other son l can now see should get benefit of the doubt that if his dad asked for tools etc back he would l'm sure return them. I accept now this is just normal among families and although annoying at times not worth getting stressed about. He could also keep hitting on his dad for money aswell and l know he would get it - but he doesnt so at least he is independant financially.

But the other son as an adult and intelligent enough must know that if you borrow money you should pay it back and to keep borrowing it with no intention of paying it back because it's someone who you know loves you and wont like to ask for it back , then when they do you simply lie to them or guilt trip them to fob them off. That is exploitatative and dishonest and selfish. He also is very aware of my feelings and the problems it causes between me and his dad. But he really doesnt care if he is causing problems between a husband and wife, which again l think is selfish and immoral and he just carries on regardless. Sorry but l cant accept this is all my DHs doing but l do know what you mean. I will at least concede that DH 'created the monster'.

FrameyMcFrame Wed 02-Jan-13 00:24:23

I don't see the problem tbh. If I had to pay my parents back all the money they have 'lent' me over the years I would be bankrupt. They wouldn't ask for it back anyway!
This is what being a parent of adult kids is like, being there when you are needed. He sounds like a good dad to me

FrameyMcFrame Wed 02-Jan-13 00:26:15

Scarletwoman, I remember that thread about the step kids coming round for a bath at an inconvenient time grin

allnewtaketwo Wed 02-Jan-13 06:05:36

No, being a parent is supporting your children WHILST encouraging them to be able to live independently. Encouraging consistent dependency into adulthood is more about the parents making themselves feel better IMO (unless the family is mega rich and no-one in it will ever need to fend for themselves)

catsmother Wed 02-Jan-13 07:46:08

The very few times in my life I have asked my parents to lend me money I have approached them honestly about it, and have always suggested a repayment plan at the same time. At that point my parents could have refused of course, or indeed, could have offered to give me the money if they so wished. Instead, they have lent me money on the understanding that it would be paid back - as indeed it was, as promised.

To ask for a "loan", with no intention of paying it back is terribly wrong and a complete piss take. As I said, at that point, parents who want to help out with a gift instead of a loan have ample opportunity to say so right there and then. The fact that they later "don't ask" for it back probably has a lot more to do with family politics - fear of causing a row, fear of losing contact (yes, even with "adult" children) - than being able to write off the money lent. After all, even if circumstances change and parents decide they don't want a loan repaid after all - why not just come right out and say so ?

I'm sure the adult son referred to in this post knows - for whatever reason - his father is somehow scared to raise the issue and/or to demand repayment with any real conviction, and is taking full advantage of this. As is anyone else who goes to a parent for a "loan" they don't plan to pay back.

Yes - the father is enabling the situation by not being more sensible and assertive but good god at what age exactly are "adult" children also expected to take at least some responsibility for doing something which is wrong ? Just because you can get away with doing something unacceptable doesn't make it right does it ? It's akin to shoplifting when the shopkeeper's out the back in a little shop with no CCTV - you get away with it because the shopkeeper hasn't protected themselves with decent security and/or a staff member on the floor at all times - but it's still bloody wrong! The father must obviously accept some of the blame for what's going on but so should this "child".

And absolutely this is the OP's business ... unless they are both mega rich with completely independent finances where this constant haemmorage wouldn't make any difference, then these regular "loans" (ha ha) are bound to have an effect on the household sooner or later. In effect the OP then also ends up subsidising this irresponsible leech if she has to stump up her DH's share for things he can no longer afford to contribute fairly to. That would make me beyond mad - especially when it's not discussed and agreed with her - and particularly when this money isn't even for genuine emergencies or problems - which most people would be symapthetic to ... but for ridiculous fripperies - like bets FFS, and enhanced fines because the lazy little sod has buried his head in the sand and allowed penalties to accrue. What a bloody wicked waste of money. Even if DH was mega rich I'd still feel upset he was being taken for a ride - and however rich you are there's never any excuse (bar hospitalisation or similar) for recklessly creating more debt - repeatedly - through a stupid failure to deal with the situation asap. Something which the OP has offered to help him with (i.e. money management) BTW - which has been rejected. That money going down the drain needlessly like that - because this boy-man is selfish, entitled, and irresponsible - would really upset me ..... not only because it was impacting on my household but because it could have so easily been avoided. I'd rather see that money go to charity and do some good then see it go to the local council in fines.

The answer of course is - unless this boy-man finds a conscience - is for DH to say NO. Something is preventing him from doing this - the OP mentions fear of upsetting him. But quite obviously upsetting your wife is okay - and preferrable to putting a rocket up your adult child who's created most of the mess he's got himself into and refused all offers of help to deal with finances better. Suda - I really feel for you.

allnewtaketwo Wed 02-Jan-13 08:06:00

catsmother - as always, very well put!

Herrena Wed 02-Jan-13 08:26:12

OP, have you ever considered that maybe your DH keeps supplying SS with money simply because he knows that's the only way he will ever get to spend time with his son? That would explain why he's willing to let this unfair situation continue.

Petal02 Wed 02-Jan-13 09:30:44

Excellent post, Catsmother! Suda, you have my total sympathy.

Petal02 Wed 02-Jan-13 09:32:56

PS - what will Suda's stepson do if/when his father's money runs out? He'll be completely stuck because managing money is a basic life skill, which he's never been taught. Suda's DH is actually doing him a huge disservice.

NotaDisneyMum Wed 02-Jan-13 13:16:42

DCs take into adulthood the lessons they are taught as children.

Suda - your DSS has been taught that the 'bank of daddy' is never closed. He won't suddenly 'grow up' and realise that's not how he should treat his Dad - for him, this is normal - because its what he's been taught through words and actions as he's been growing up.

Even some people on this thread think its OK to repeatedly borrow off parents with no intention of repayment - so why would your DSS think differently when its been like this his whole life?

sudaname Wed 02-Jan-13 13:21:51

Thank you so much Catsmother on the nail. And Peta and Allnew,
Herrena you may well have something there as l am absolutely sure if 'D' SS never wanted anything DH would never see him for dust once he left home. Experience since he left has proven this over and over. l just feel so sad for DH as well as it being a bloody nuisance to me.

sudaname Wed 02-Jan-13 13:26:20

Notadisneymum because he is in his late twenties and doesnt live in a bubble. You only have to watch a few American soaps or whatever to grasp there are some basic morals in life. If one of my SSs mates then kept 'borrowing' money off him when out at night or whatever and never paying it back/fobbing him off - l bet he'd have a lightbulb moment then wouldnt he - and bollock his mate or refuse to lend him anymore !!

sudaname Wed 02-Jan-13 13:28:32

know what that random 'then' is for after 'SSs mates' confused

Ignore !

sudaname Wed 02-Jan-13 13:29:38

grrrrr - 'dont know...' - that should have read !

catsmother Wed 02-Jan-13 14:12:25

I do see what NADM is getting at and she's right in that SS has been "taught" - so far - to see his dad as an ever open cashpoint. But I also agree with you Suda - in that presumably he doesn't live in a cave and must surely know, from what he reads, from chatting with friends, from TV & film, that most people think asking to "borrow" money and then avoiding repayment is wrong. After all, if he has no intention of paying it back why doesn't he just come right out and ask for a gift ? ..... hmmm, I'd say that he knows full well he is less likely to be gifted money whereas a "loan" somehow sounds more acceptable - because it at least, at the time of asking, implies repayment and would therefore be more acceptable to his dad. Basically, when he asks for a loan he's lying isn't he - he's being dishonest right from the start ..... and I can't believe that he doesn't know that that at least is wrong ?!

I do however also agree with NADM in as much that this boy-man isn't going to grow up unless he's shocked into it. I think he's taking huge advantage here (obviously) but it's not done with some naiive innocence - he knows bloody well what he's doing because otherwise, why not just ask for a sub straight ...... bottom line is he's correctly sussed his dad is a soft touch and has no qualms in exploiting that. It's really a very unattractive and unpleasant trait regardless of the fact his dad has enabled this. The only way this is going to stop is either he gets a taste of his own medicine as suggested by Suda (very unlikely), or, his dad tells him enough's enough.

Suda - don't know if you already do this but I'd keep a record of all the "loans" I knew about (wouldn't be surprised if there's several you've been kept in the dark about sad to say) so at the very least at some point in the future you can clearly show DH how much has been lent and how much has been returned. Maybe at the moment it's all too easy for DH to dismiss what's been going on by talking about "only £30" or whatever - but it all adds up and you shouldn't have to make it up. Your DH needs to have it drummed into him that he's doing his son no favours at all by carrying on like this .... he's not dealing with stuff and making it ten times worse because he knows ultimately daddy will come to the rescue. What would he do if daddy wasn't there one day ? And what sort of partner is he going to make if he spends recklessly expecting other people to bail him out ? You certainly shouldn't have to hide and/or tell fibs about any purchases you and/or DH make. So bloody what if you spend some of the money you've earnt honestly on yourselves ? Do you have a tantrum if SS goes on holiday ? - guess not - it wouldn't really be any of your business (though you'd be entitled to be peed off if the debt was still outstanding). I really don't know what to suggest .... maybe sitting DH down, showing him this thread (??) and perhaps, in order to show you're not "getting at" SS (heaven forbid a stepmother should ever justifiably complain about a step "child") reiterate your offer of financial management lessons and, though it pains me to say it (but it's cutting your losses and you'd be no worse off as I don't think the little sod has any intention of paying anything back) suggesting to DH that all past loans are written off providing this stops NOW. That all future requests must be discussed with you - because it affects you too - even if it is "only" £30, and that "loans" for anything other than genuine emergencies won't be granted. That DH tells SS that all loans have now been written off because time has shown again and again they weren't actually loans at all but money obtained under false pretences and promises - and that he's very disappointed with him. That he's prepared to forgive and forget (for the sake of diplomacy) but moving on things are going to be different and SS needs to put his house in order as there'll be no more Bank of Dad. He doesn't need to know that emergencies might be considered.

If DH baulks at all that I'd be pretty damned furious. What kind of "relationship" does he really have with his son if he effectively has to pay for crumbs of company which otherwise wouldn't be willingly given. I'm not sure how DH can take any pleasure from his company if he knows deep down it's been bought. Maybe SS would strop off - I don't know - but I very much doubt it would be forever, and if he did cut his dad off over him getting assertive then that surely says far more about him than it does his dad.

sudaname Wed 02-Jan-13 14:18:09

An extreme analogy this is l know but my DS was brought up in a DV household - that is what he witnessed over and over as his dads reaction if he didnt get his own way or something upset him in one way or another. He also witnessed mummy being nice to daddy and cooking his tea etc etc after he had been shouting horribly at mummy and even on occasion knocking her round kitchen sad.

Does my son now intimidate his partner or shout at/smack his kids to get what he wants at home ? No - not a bit of it - he is the original gentle giant (his fathers large intimidating physique is the only thing he has inherited from him thankfully). Because as an adult he now knows full well this behaviour is wrong and has chosen a better path.

SS could do the same. At his age my DH is no longer responsible for all SSs bad behaviour/traits. As l have said he now knows right from wrong and if one of his mates was taking the piss out of him in this way he would soon be saying 'No' to them and he would understand exactly why he was saying No and no doubt relay that reasoning to them.

sudaname Wed 02-Jan-13 14:37:42

Sorry x posts, Catsmother Yes l do keep track of all he owes and even keep every debt collector letter that he ever threw in but the binew or still comes here and he doesnt want it

sudaname Wed 02-Jan-13 14:38:01

sorry back soon !!!!

sudaname Wed 02-Jan-13 17:15:56

Sorry - DH sat next to me on settee so a bit self conscious a bout what am typing even tho he doesnt peek.

Yes *Catsmother l do keep track and record of everything he owes and all the debt collector letters he left in his room - many unopened l have shoved in a box and add any letters he gets now he has moved out into it as he says he doesnt want them - 'he's sorted it' yeah right but he obviously hasnt told anyone who he owes money to that he has moved. So he can never rewrite history or more to the point can his dad as l will just plonk the box down in front of him.
I couldnt show him this thread - he would go mental really. He is uber-defensive of his DCs particularly the 'money scrounger' one. l can get away with comments about us being like B&Q etc about his other son l think because l do like him very much. He is a very decent lad and has got many lovely traits. Just still got this mentality that whatever is in his fathers house is 'communal' even though he moved out many years ago (pre-me) and now has his own household and partner and income etc. even though over half things in here are mine from before l met DH or are jointly owned by his dad and me, so not even his dads to give away share. But apart from that - and it's unfortunate it was one of his such 'misdemeanours' that was straw that broke camels back and caused me to type my OP.

One excellent piece of coping advice l was once given on here was 'pick your battles' - might have been MJ but not sure - so l have decided to ignore this annoyance from SS1 as in bigger pic he is a good lad. Otherwise DH will be thinking 'Oh she just doesnt like either of my DCs' which is not true and l really like and am very fond of SS1 ( and SD1 mutual great relationship)
But It really is the other bugger one who's the problem. But he and l have a lot of bad history - many on here will remember but worse than that things came to a head just over a year ago just before he moved out (and l disappeared off here for a long time- too busy dealing with it all) so anything l even start to say about him - however commentworthy or reasonable it is, is cut off at the first mention of his name with a 'Dont start'.

hmm confused

sudaname Wed 02-Jan-13 17:35:20

Oh your last paragraph Catsmother - yes as stated in prev post SS does get arsey with his dad when he very occasionally does have the audacity to mention any money owed and DH does back down straight away and DH is a really tough 'mans man' (he's a builder) and l look at him and l think 'wow you really are scared of him arent you' (definitely not physically) because l know if it were anyone else stood in front of DH with that attitude then the air would be blue and they'd be shot down in flames in no uncertain terms.

For example when he called him a 'tight wad' in a mocking voice, when he mentioned the betting stake he'd not had back his son was so cocky and arrogant with him it was breathtaking and l just remember thinking l wanted to lamp him let alone DH is gonna lose it in a second. But DH just gave an uncomfortable little laugh and just left it. He didnt even say 'Who you callling a tight wad?' or anything.

sudaname Wed 02-Jan-13 18:08:17

Not suggesting or condoning violence btw. Dh isnt a violent man at all but he's not a pushover either and usually if someone was stood in his face in that condescending, aggressive provocative way he would react with more than the pathetic whimper he did with his son.

Neither am l suggesting all builders are sweary punch drunk thugs. Oh FFS (l'm digging a marvellous hole) - you know what l mean !!

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