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Step-parenting

Grown and not Grown??

53 replies

Wdigin2this · 30/08/2015 03:15

What would other posters do in my position? DH has a fully grown-up child whom I've known for many years, since early teens. The child (calling them X) has been unlucky in that they don't earn much money and lives alone. However for many years X has been coming to my DH with requests for financial help, started small and boy, is it getting bigger, it appears we are now at the point where we are actually financing X's life......I mean right down to weekly grocery shopping! None of my DC have ever, or would ever ask for cash, if we see they're strughling we try to help, my DH is always willing to do this, but they rarely accept, as they are very independent.
It's a difficult topic for us to discuss, because a) it makes me angry to see him being treated like a cash cow, and b) because although he's admitted he's fed up with the situation, he gets defensive about X, (which I really do get) and changes the subject...but the fact remains, he still goes along with it! I really don't know how to speak to him about it, and he insists that I must NOT, under any circs discuss it with X! Help!!

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TheHouseOnTheLane · 30/08/2015 07:33

How old is fully grown up though? Is X unemployed? As a parent it's incredibly hard to walk away from an adult child....one who is struggling, perhaps due to mental health issues. My Mother still finances my 50 year old brother....nothing anyone said would stop her. She can't bear to see him withhout the basics.

Why is X so short of cash? Does he have his own dc?

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Stompylongnose · 30/08/2015 09:26

I'm sorry but its irresponsible not to help because what will he do if you h and you aren't around for money?

By help I mean sit down and do a budget. What % is spent on rent? Food? Can he reduce utilities?

If all this seems in order where does his money go? Gambling? gadgets?

Does he have anything that he can sell to make money? I took s bunch of old CDs, games and DVDs to CEX recently. Some were only worth 20p but others were worth 3 or 4 pounds so I left with a nice early Xmas bonus,

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Bananasinpyjamas1 · 30/08/2015 15:44

OP this sounds a really difficult position for you, and all too familiar! DH is defensive I imagine because he knows it isn't a healthy situation for either him or child. Helping out a child temporarily, in an emergency, as a springboard for later independence is one thing, but you've said it is escalating to the point where they sound like they have regressed to being a child - and probably have no incentive now to learn those painful lessons most of us had to learn in becoming an adult.

But as you said, your DH wants to bury his head in the sand. Does the financial help cause a strain to you both? Is there anyone else, a friend of his - would he listen to someone else? It is hard because it is horrible to see someone taken advantage of, my OH gets treated like that from all his kids and his ex wife still - gets super defensive - but won't admit it as it is too much for him to see that he is getting walked all over - to him it is an opportunity to feel needed and he loves feeling like a provider. Is there any way of talking to him, saying that you know how hard it is, but that you are concerned that his child is becoming more dependent and it is not good for the child? Putting it that way?

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Wdigin2this · 31/08/2015 00:43

Well, I'll explain...the 'child' is a mother of a teen daughter, and has been married but isn't now, so she's not exactly young, she works regularly, but is a low earner! Stompy, you say it's irresponsible not to help, but when do you stop being the main source of financial support for a daughter passed her 40's?? There are no mental health issues, it's more a case of DF has never said no, so his DD feels she can expect everything to be paid for, simply because her father just cannot refuse her!
Bananas, you've hit the nail on the head...DH does pretend it's all normal even whilst complaining he's had enough of the whole thing! However, from my own DC's attitudes, I know it's not normal, they would move mountains rather than be a drain on us!
The financial strain, will begin to take affect, as we get older and are less able to keep this up! Stomps, we have tried many times to explain the basic format of...you can't spend more out, than you've got coming in...brick walls come to mind! But I think the attitude is, if she's in trouble DF will bale her out..over and over again, so why should she make any real effort..she can go on living a life she can't afford?! This is getting to ludicrous proportions now, and I'm at my wits end! But DH will not discuss it sensibly with me or anyone else!!

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Wdigin2this · 31/08/2015 00:46

Bananas, have I spoken to you under another name?

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HormonalHeap · 31/08/2015 05:39

Oh Wdigin I feel your pain. The reason he's not listening to you is because you're not his dd's mother- and even if you were, he probably still wouldn't. Is her mother still alive and if so, what does she think? You're lucky he even tells you about it- I'm not sure mine would.

Is the money he's 'helping' her with, money you've earned jointly? If so, I think you have every right to bring it up with her and explain that it isn't a bottomless pit and although you won't see her and her teen starve, she'll have to start taking responsibility.

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Wdigin2this · 31/08/2015 06:44

Hi Hormone! Her mother has no input into this, perfectly nice person, but doesn't get involved....I don't blame her! The thing is, I know that what I'm getting told is just the tip of the iceberg, and we sort of earn the money together....but have separate B/A's apart from the household account! I have no complaints about money generally, he is very generous to all of our combined family! It's just this incidideous, expectation of entitlement, which is getting worse that I find infuriating!

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Bananasinpyjamas1 · 31/08/2015 20:36

OP - I do feel for you it is a horrible dynamic - basically having to sit and watch your DP being drained emotionally and financially, it's no joke. And without having any power to do anything about it as there are to listen to you would be to confront something that sounds like it has happened for a very long time.

It is very devisive for the DSC but also probably became a habit because your DP let it happen.. So hard! It is not possible to completely detach is it, well I've tried many, many times! I have asked DP not to tell me certain things but I know it goes on and it still rankles me - he is taken for granted and got roped in emotionally to his eldest DDs messy break up with father of her child - my DP was at her beck and call in a way that I found really disturbing. She started lying about stuff and demanding he provide solititors/move her/fund everything but I couldn't say a thing because it was too sensitive an issue.

Do you think it will eventually start to dawn on your DP? Will he realise that he's part of bad dynamic? I feel for you but am not optimistic you will get through because I didn't!

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HormonalHeap · 01/09/2015 05:42

The funny thing is, another family member came to dh asking for financial help. Dh made a big deal of discussing it with me first "as we're a team". Funny how we're not a team when it comes to his kids. Mine yes- just not his.

As someone said unthread, your dh seems to need this. I like your sd am in my 40's. I had to once ask my parents for help when i had no choice but have been unclsuccesfully trying to pay them back ever since. I just don't get how someone middle aged can do this.

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Wdigin2this · 15/09/2015 02:09

Thanks for all your replies! I don't get how she can do it either, I had no dependency on my parents after the age of 16!
DH realises that it's not appropriate, but just can't bring himself to say no, it would appear, the more he gives the more he is asked for, and so it's getting to ridiculous levels now...I really don't know what to do, I've tried talking to him, but he won't discuss it!

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Wdigin2this · 15/09/2015 10:28

I have recently found out' that a (very large) sum of money is regularly being transferred into DSD's account! We are not talking a couple of quid here, more like a huge mortgage payment, and as far as I could find out it has been going on for some time, and looks like it will continue for some time further!
It has never been discussed with me, and I only found out through surreptitiously checking some paperwork, for which I make NO apology....but what the hell do I do now?!

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swingofthings · 15/09/2015 10:48

You need to stop thinking that because you're independent and so are your children that your sd should be too.

In the end, it is up to him what he wants to do if it comes out of his disposable income. If it makes him happier to ensure that his daughter and grand daughter have a decent life, then that's his choice. He is probably not discussing it with you because he knows that you'll go mad and try to get him to stop it. Clearly however much he wishes she was self-reliant, he wants to do it.

Like you, it would annoy me, but everyone can spend their disposable money as they wish. I am choosing for specific reasons not to pursue my ex for child maintenance. It isn't right, he should be paying (he is working and see the kids weekly) and I know that it gets to my OH that I wouldn't do it. However, I am emotional reasons for it (I can't take the stress of his mental bullying, and much more, impose the mental pressure he will transfer on to the kids) and I can afford to do without, so that's it.

I am lucky that although he totally disagree with me, he respects my decision. I think you should do the same for the benefit of your marriage.

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Wdigin2this · 15/09/2015 11:43

Do you really Swing....even though this DD is being treated completely differently from his other DC and mine?! I wouldn't mind if it was an occasional leg up, but we are talking here about someone who seems to think they are entitled to a very high standard of living, which she would have no hope of attaining on her own! Whenever we're out as a family she expects and asks for the very best of everything but is the ONLY one to NEVER put a hand in her purse! Whatever happened to 'cut your coat according to your cloth'....we all have had to do that in our time, haven't we?
Having said all of that, I have generally kept my mouth shut...for the sake of my marriage, and because I know he would do the same for my DC....but they would NEVER ask!!! However, it has escalated alarmingly of late, and I'm about to explode!!!

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titchy · 15/09/2015 11:57

Can you suggest that you support the grandchild instead? Personally I'd send a rocket up his arse and walk away unless he agreed to stop, but you might not want to do that yet

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Saltedcaramel4 · 15/09/2015 12:05

Maybe she's unsure of how to budget because she's been proped up for years!

Try giving her some Alivin Hall financial books. Very readable. You don't have to pass comment but can just say you thought of her when you saw it in waterstones

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Wdigin2this · 15/09/2015 12:05

It's all supposed to be about the DGD, that's the code for spend, spend, spend!

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Wdigin2this · 15/09/2015 12:09

If only it was that simple Salt....I'm not supposed to know about more than half of it, so it's difficult to broach!! And it's more about, what she thinks she's entitled to!

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Saltedcaramel4 · 15/09/2015 12:13

Maybe she thinks everything she buys is essential? She might think she can't live without certain luxuries? Is there a way to question that? Maybe she should keep a diary of her expenditure for a month and then your DH or other financial person can review and work out cutbacks. If your DH is financing get, he is entitled to a breakdown

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Wdigin2this · 15/09/2015 12:22

Yes Salt, that would be the perfect answer, but there is never any discussion about her lifestyle expectations, certainly not between me and DH....not even between DH and DD! He just pays and doesn't question, even his other DC think he's being taken advantage of, but it all seems to be cloaked in secrecy and even humour....'Oh you know what X is like, she's always been the same!' How do you handle that?

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swingofthings · 15/09/2015 13:40

I'm not supposed to know about more than half of it
Maybe it would be better if you didn't?

It sounds like it is more that you are annoyed with her attitude than the money itself. She might highly annoy you, but she is not annoying her dad, at least not enough that HE wants to explode.

It sounds like your OH is disappointed with her, but ultimately wants her and GC to be happy and if it means money, he is ok with that. I really think that ultimately it is his choice and you are probably better off not knowing too much about it!

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titchy · 15/09/2015 13:53

Errr swing - they are married. They both have every right to know about each others income and significant expenditure. Anything else is tantamount to financial abuse.

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Wdigin2this · 15/09/2015 13:59

Swing you are right, I don't generally go looking for evidence because it kills me, but this time it was practically in my lap and I couldn't ignore it! And yes it is the attitude of, 'I want/need this or that, I haven't any money but that's OK 'cos that's what daddy is there for...and I'm entitled!'
And yes, the very little he does say about the situation indicates he's very disappointed in her, but is totally unable to question or say no to her! I can't go in to too much detail on a public forum, but if I described some of the outrageous spending...it would take your breath away! I don't agree it's entirely his choice because we're a married couple and I've always worked and contributed to the household!
I've thought about just ignoring it and letting it go over my head, but we've had this escalation before, and a few times he sort of reigned it in, but of course there's always another way, and tbh, I don't know how we will afford it after retirement...because I can't see DSD letting that stop her!

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SushiAndTheBanshees · 15/09/2015 14:07

Have you both had the conversation about what you are leaving to your DCs in your wills? Can this be framed in terms of wanting to ensure everyone receives what they deserve - perhaps she is getting her share up front?

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Wdigin2this · 15/09/2015 14:10

Yes Sush, but only in so much as he's agreed to see a solicitor with a view to making our wills...Which I'm going to do very soon!!

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swingofthings · 15/09/2015 16:21

I don't agree it's entirely his choice because we're a married couple and I've always worked and contributed to the household!

It should be his choice out if his disposable income, not joint funds. I totally understand your frustration, I hate people who play victim and manipulate others to get their way, but there are many people around like this and they just don't change. It sounds like her dad has accepted that she is like that and won't change, so he doesn't care anymore, but still wants her to be happy. It's not that uncommon behaviour, even at that age!

However, if he is accepting it and getting on with it, what more can you do that do the same? The more you will try to push him to give her less, the more she'll play the victim, the more he will feel guilty and then he will blame you for feeling the way he does. It's not worth it and I would really close my eyes to it.

But again, it needs to come out of the money that he has left to spend, so not out of the joint bills, not the saving account, not even the holiday fund, whatever there is left, that you might be spending on clothing, make-up, girlie days out or whatever else, whilst he'll have nothing or much less left to spend on himself. Maybe when he doesn't have money left to do something he wants to do because there is nothing left, he will start to reconsider how much he gives her.

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