will DSC always hate me?

[syllabub1]

So DH is a recovering Disney Dad and the DSC don't like their father's new parenting style.

To give a bit of background, I have DS to my ex, me and DH have DD together and he has 2 children from past relationship.

Before DH was with me he would let them do whatever they wanted to, they could eat an endless amount of sweets and chocolate, they went to bed after they had fallen asleep on the sofa at 11pm, and there were few rules, boundaries and no discipline.

When DH first moved in with me it was crap, there were two sets of rules, one for my DS and another set of non-existent rules for DSC.
Then DD came along and things got worse, they were then all fighting for attention etc.

It used to cause so many arguments between DH and I, that DSC would often torment DS for ages and then the second he would retaliate DH would discipline him, usually put on 'the step'. They would just get away with their bad behaviour.

Anyway over time DH realised that it couldn't continue and he's changed things. Nothing major, but he now treats them more as he would do if they lived here full time, and we now ask them to follow our house rules.
It's just little things like they don't help themselves to food out of the fridge, they have 3 proper meals and snacks are limited. We use manners. We don't talk with food in our mouths. We don't swear (I never knew such little people could know such words). We're kind to each other. They now have a bed time.
I understand that when they are used to not having any rules it is going to take a bit of time to get used to but I'm confident that our rules are not unreasonable and are rules that most households have.

I have never ever told DSC off or disciplined them, I leave that to DH to deal with, but if they are calling someone an idiot or a mong (I HATE that word) or a fat bitch etc etc then I am going to pull them up on it, if they are talking with their mouths full then I will tell them 'I can't tell what you're saying darling, tell me when you've finished what's in your mouth'. If we are out and they ask for us to buy them xyz then 99% of the time the answer is no because we're skint and the chances are they are asking for something they don't need. DH does the same.

So they've gone home to their Mum telling her that I'm a cow, they don't like me and they don't want to stay at our house any more - they want to stay at DH's Mum's where they can do whatever they want.

Well their Mum has had a rant at me for being horrible to her kids, when actually all I'm doing is treating them the same as my own children.

I understand that the children hate me because in their eyes it is all my fault that their Dad has changed and they now have to share him with me and 2 other children.

DSD does seem very jealous of me, she spends a good chunk of her time sat on DH's knee, grooming him, almost suffocating him. She's 9. We never kiss or cuddle in front of her, I think if we did I woulde have diggers in my back.

So really my question is, is it going to be like this forever? Will they always hate me or will they adjust?

[yoyo27]

No advice really, just sending a huge hug! My DSCs are similar though nowhere near as bad. I often wonder what is said about me when the go back, though I am well prepared for any kind of argument!!!

Could your dh have a word with their mum ?

[Mrsbhouse07]

I know exactly how you feel! I have 2 DSD and they absolutely hate me, no matter how hard I try nothing works. The eldest acts like his mini wife and the younger one literally hangs off him! We are into our second week of contact and I literally can't wait till Friday and they've gone home. I wish it wasn't like this but they just don't want to know, I feel like a stranger in my own home!

[syllabub1]

Tbh there is no talking or reasoning with this woman, she is always right, her children are angels, she is a perfect mother, she has done nothing wrong, they have done nothing wrong, me and DH are a pair of useless bastards and she will tell this to anybody who will listen.

[purpleroses]

Do you have much positive interaction with them?

I find the amount you can get away with pulling DSC up on bad behaviour, house rules etc is roughly proportional to how much positive time you spend together. One of my DSC was much harder to get a good relationship up with than the others, and I still tend to do less stuff with him, and also find I need to get DH to step in a lot more to discipline him. Whereas the younger ones who I do a lot of things with (shopping trips, taking them to the park, cooking, etc) I am more confident pulling up on bad behaviour - it's about them knowing that even though you've just told them off for something, you still like them - a security your own DC just have automatically with you as their parent, but your DSC don't. I see the same thing with my own DD - she used to run to me crying if DH (who's not her dad) told her off, but now sh has a closer bond with him she can cope with him being snappy at her if he's in a bad mood much better.

[Y0rkshirePudding]

Oh poor you. I can empathise. When I met my OH I waited 2 yrs to meet DSS as I wanted to make sure our relationship would last before I became involved in his life. I had no children of my own. When I met him he was 10 yrs old and we hit it off and I looked forward to the weekends he stayed with us. He was polite and affectionate, we'd snuggle on the sofa and play games together.

However when he turned 12 we had a baby. He was excited and told everyone that would listen about his new brother. We made sure he never felt pushed out, but the boundaries and rules remained the same.

But OH's ex appeared jealous that OH had moved on and had a new family (she dumped him) and started being off-hand when previously we'd all been amicable. By the time DSS was 13 he became a different child.

He's rude, I get a grunt as a forced 'hello', I get filthy looks, he tells lies, refuses to be in the same room as us and barely acknowledges his brother, often telling him to go away, he tells blatant lies as excuses for not wanting to come and stay with us - we must see him once every 6 weeks now. OH's ex keeps trying to demand more money and totally blanks OH when he drops off DSS when she had initially congratulated us when we advised her of my pregnancy.

Im at a loss as to what to do too. Instead if looking forward to seeing DSS I am now pleased when he says he can't come and dread the odd weekends when he does... If you find a solution that works pls share it with me because its very upsetting

[ClashCityRocker]

That sounds tough syllabub.

It sounds like ex-p is encouraging the perception that 'it's all your fault' with her children and as you say, they will already have there nose firmly put out of joint by the change in rules.

I agree, try and make sure that you have positive interactions with the children too - it's very easy to slip into your DH being 'fun dad' whilst you get cast as the parental party pooper. I also wonder if they're saying things like the words you mentioned as they know it gets a response. They then have titbits they can take home to their mother - 'ooh, syllabub says I'm rude' which they won't put into context.

Be consistent, make time for them as individuals rather than 'the stepchildren'; it can sometimes be helpful to 'divide and conquer' rather than face two siblings who will egg each other on.

They still sound quite young, i suspect that the tittle-tattling to mum makes them feel like they are supporting her and that saying anything good about you feels like a betrayal of their mum; which of course, isn't the case. They may come to realise this as they mature a bit.

[syllabub1]

Thanks.

The DSC even bitch about their Mum to me, especially DSD, eg when we went shopping together she was pointing at dresses saying "that's like something my Mum would wear, very short, bit tarty really isn't it?". I swear to God I have never said anything like that in front of DSD, I've never said a bad word about her, but I suspect DSD was only saying it as she thought it was what I would want to hear. And I think that's what she's doing with bitching to her mum about me.

Tbh I don't get a great deal of positive time with DSC, they are here alternate weekends, I work all day on Saturdays so when I get in through the door at 8.30pm we get half an hour or so all together and then I'm telling them to go to bed.
DSD gets upset about bedtimes on a Saturday night, DH has usually got us a nice tea cooking when I get in which we'll enjoy with a bottle glass of wine and some candles. She sees it like she's being pushed out of the way so we can enjoy some alone time, but actually we just need an hour chilling out before we go to bed ourselves, and they need to get to bed at a decent time or else they are grumpy

[TheMumsRush]

Not much to add but sending hugs. How long have the new rules been in place for them? It might just be they still need to get use to it. As for the mum having a go? Does she contact you often? Is it always negative? If so, don't answer again. The only reason my DH ex would call me is if it was an absolute emergency regarding the kids.

[ClashCityRocker]

Ah I see. In that case, I suspect it will get easier as they get older. If she's saying things that she thinks you want to hear, albeit misguided on her part, I would take it as indicative that she doesn't hate you - in fact, it sounds like she values your opinion.

Do you have them on the Sundays too? is there any way you can orchestrate some more positive time together as a family?

Whilst what you're doing is exactly what I'd do after a day at work til 8.30 on a Saturday and for the same reasons (ie, the kids need to be in bed and you need time to unwind before bed), from the kids point of view I can see how a child would maybe think that 'I've had a great time with dad, now SM has come back and I'm being sent straight to bed!'

I don't mean that as a criticism, it's not unreasonable to do that at all, just trying to look at it from the kid's perspective - particularly if bedtimes don't happen at home! I think spending some time together will help balance that feeling a bit without having to sacrifice your chill time - and god knows I wouldn't want to come home fairly late on a Saturday nigh and have to deal with four kids!

Also, you say it's you sending them to bed - would it be better if DH did it? That way, it's not 'you' that's sending them to bed because you want to hog DH all to yourself (as a child might think), it's dad sending them to bed because it's bedtime.

[WakeyCakey45]

My own experience is that it will only get worse as the DCs get older - not only will they be more vulnerable to emotional manipulation from their Mum but they'll have more independence, so able to "vote with their feet" in a way they may not be able to right now.

Sadly, what started as a dislike of the perceived influence I had over their Dad, has evolved into complete rejection of me and DH (apart from superficial contact between him and his DS secured by court order which is breaking down already). We have navigated allegations of abuse, social services involvement, arrest of and paramedic attendance to DSD. I have not spoken to either DC for 10 months and DH has had no contact at all, not even electronic, from his DD for 9 months.

Our hope is that one day, they may change their minds. In the meantime, we are trying to manage the gap that has been left in our lives and family.

[syllabub1]

Sorry I had to abandon my post half way yesterday to go and sort out the kids.

Yes we do get some quality time on a Sunday but on the weeks that their Mum picks them up she often comes from them in the morning meaning I have spent just two bedtimes and one morning time with them in a whole weekend, and on the weekends DH takes them home (usually late afternoon/early evening) we often have nice time together but that means it's only once a month.

I spoke to DH about it last night and he thinks their Mum is poisoning their minds against me. Me and her really do not get on and we've had a couple of run-ins over the past couple of years. It's always been that she has tried to cause trouble between me and DH, making unreasonable demands, being a total bitch to him, threatens to stop him seeing the kids if she doesn't get her way, she slags us off on fb etc...and then I tell her to leave DH alone and stop bullying him...and now she hates me. I'm not bothered in the slightest that she hates me, the feeling is mutual but it would seem that she's now saying things to the kids to influence how they feel about me. Because they used to love me, but recently it's changed and they now get upset at the slightest thing I say.

[LeftHandedMouse]

Ooh sounds familiar!

Two things.

Stick to your guns, they'll get used to it. It's tough love but they need boundaries, and so do you for your own sanity! Take some reassurance that they will actually be happier/more secure having some rules, they just won't realise for ten or twenty years!

They grow older and more independent so the claustrophobic behaviour will ease off.

I would keep doing exactly as you seem to be. I can't say I've made a roaring success of it but if your DP is backing you up on the rules then you're doing great.

It's difficult when you get drawn into an argument over something to step back and let DP deal with it later but that's about your only resort if you don't want the 'you're not my mum' thrown at you.

In my expereience you can often think you're getting on fine then something will go wrong and you start all over again. Often it's not anything of your making but you get the fallout.

Or that could just be teens!

But boundaries, once understood mean you can move on to nice things like having sensible conversations at meal times. Asking the DSC to tidy up or help out.

Good luck.

[shey03]

I am sending hugs, hugs, hugs!

I would not change the boundaries, they must accept that two different houses, have two different sets of rules..... Stick to your guns. At the very least this is fair to the dc that live in your house full time.

In my situation in the years that I have known my dp, my relationship with his dc has not changed, not improved over time. The influence of the hostile ex has proved too great. I was finding this extremely hard to deal with, heartbreaking, detaching is what has helped me alot. I realise it's not me, it's how they are raised. I do find it hard to see my dp treated like shit and have good and bad days, but I accept now that it probably will never change. I channel all my energy into my own dc and my dp, who really does need my support. Any positive's that come from that re. the dsc are just that, lucky positives to be happy for. But I try not to dwell on the negatives nor kid myself that a few happy days will change their attitude long term, because it will not.

[Eliza22]

Oh dear. Well, it's a possibility. One of mine hates me and now, years on, I can't feel anything but dislike and indifference toward her. There's no middle ground now. I'm done with her.

You need support from you DH. Don't be manipulated. Hugs and good luck!

[WakeyCakey45]

nor kid myself that a few happy days will change their attitude long term, because it will not.

I agree, it feels very cynical, but even when there is civility and positive interactions between DH and his DCs (or their mum) I am inwardly thinking "it won't last" or "what are they after?".

[purpleroses]

I'd try and remove yourself from whatever hostility there is between your DP and his ex - leave him to fight his own battles, don't get involved. It'll be far to tempting for her to blame you for everything if you do.

And either try to step back from disciplining the DSC a bit, or step up the positive times with them. You're going to make yourself an enemy of them if you discipline, enforce rules and send to bed, but don't have any fun times with them.

If you only have them one night a fortnight, then maybe that's not the best night for a candlelit dinner and an early night for them. Could you compromise a bit and let your DP eat earlier with the kids, leave some food for you to heat up on your own, then join them all in whatever they're doing for an hour or so, still getting them off to bed by 9 or 10 so you get a bit of time alone with DP? Or have everyone go to bed early, and have a nice hour or so chatting together in bed (with some ) maybe?

Good to stick to your guns about house rules like not helping themselves to food, etc - but if the routine you have for the one night they visit is causing conflict every time, then it could be easier to accept that it's possible to relax some of your house rules on a Saturday night to something that's a bit easier on everyone.

[shey03]

Yep, being in this role has been a lesson in cynicism that I just am not used to, nor did I forsee.

Sad, because mostly it is the kids that are suffering, I have my loving dc and loving dp, who is still learning how to be a dad to these kids and his eyes are still not open wide enough to give me the support I need, but we will get there as a team. If you have that support already OP, then at least your relationship is not at risk. I feel sorry for his dc and the burden that is placed on them by their mum. But my patience will not run forever, one day I will feel the kids are old enough to be responsible for their own actions/feelings and I'm guessing it will be total detachment from me rather than a wonderfully, loving, regretful epiphany from them. Though I dearly hope it is not. Wish I had the chilled, relaxed, loving relationship that my dp has with my kids...

[WakeyCakey45]

Wish I had the chilled, relaxed, loving relationship that my dp has with my kids...

Oh yes. DH and I have talked about this - we both observe with regret what the other has; he would love to have the same relationship with his DCs as myself and my ex do with DD, and I can't help think "if only" when I see how close he is to my DD.
Sad thing is, I have been close to my DSC, but they "turned against me" in order to appease their mum. Saying that, we've never had a natural relationship, there have always been "elephants in the room" that we didn't talk about. Maybe if we had, things would be different now.

[shey03]

It's so unfair Wakey, the negativity just blights my dp's life. He has done nothing wrong and continues to put his dc first financially, logistically, emotionally, sees the dc as much as the ex 'will let him'. My heart breaks for him as it has changed us both, talk about elephants in the room, it's a herd!

I feel because I can talk about it here and I have got perspective from reading books on the subject, I feel I'm helping myself and stopping myself from making his situation worse. I want to support him better, however he finds it hard to separate the child from the behaviour. He is not rational when talking about his children and any slight criticism, no matter how carefully worded explodes into WW3. So now I say nothing, it's not a situation either of us deserve. In every other way, we are perfect together, best friends, but I've learnt that talking about his kids is totally counter productive sadly. I should probably start another thread on this subject. How to help my dp help himself and his dc and how to open up to me without feeling he is being disloyal/unloving by aknowledging and confronting the challenging/bad behaviours.

[Azzak]

Just in case my experiences might help......My kids are teens and they have a very difficult relationship with their stepfather. I feel there is lots of hate in the house which is awful for everyone. It's so tense that a spark can create a scene and that's what happened 2 months ago when I ran downstairs to find DH and DS swearing and shouting at each other over something very minor. Fearing a physical fight I asked DS to move out. He did for 2months and we're having counselling (me and with DH) because we've been so stuck for so long.

I feel so much guilt for causing all this and so hopeless for not being able to find a way for everyone to get on. Of course I side with my children cos they are my children and my loyalty will always be with them. Right from the start I said they were the most important thing for me. My parenting style is 'sloppy' (DH words).

He feels unsupported by me and feels all the 'requests' he makes of kids are reasonable and that they should respect them by complying immediately. He feels excluded because we get on well and is looking forwards to them leaving home.

They feel a grumpy man has invaded a perfectly happy home. They try everything to avoid him and they resent even having to acknowledge him when they see him. They remember every criticism from the past and this fuels their hate.

DH moved into my home with kids 5 years ago.

What could we have done differently?
Before moving in DH and I could have talked about our parenting styles. They are v different, me preferring to discuss, he's more traditional and expects immediate compliance without debate. We could have discussed how we might have dealt with various situations and agreed on the parenting style for the 'new world'.
Before DH moved in I could have discussed more with kids. Listened to their fears and concerns and agreed with them new ways of living.
When DH moved in we could have had family discussions as issues started to arise and thus would have enabled us all to learn how to discuss problems in a constructive way.

What can I do now to resolve issues? Counselling has helped us to understand each other. This is work in progress