Dss and his ex

(39 Posts)
AuntyVirus Mon 14-Oct-13 03:07:40

My Dss has a five month old baby with a woman who is now his ex , she also has a dd from previous relationship.

His ex decided 2 month ago that Dss was no longer allowed to visit the children , and that he was no longer a part of their lives .

Out of the blue last week ex contacted Dss to see if he wanted to go visit the children which he did . He visited them on Saturday where after an hour of her demanding money from him and been verbally abusive to him she asked him to leave.

Dss has been putting money aside for his son plus this woman never named Dss on birth certificate so he is now in the process of going through the courts for a parental responsibility order ( I think it's called ) .

Yesterday he received a text message of ex , of what her children would like for Christmas, this included £100 off Dss dad and myself aswell as clothes and toys for both her children.

We really don't know what to do , We don't want to give into this woman's demands , after all she has refused to let us see our grandson since he was 2 weeks old .We did intend to open a bank account for grandson and buy him some gifts that would stay at our house in the hope that one day we will be allowed to have him visit us , but I don't want to feel as though we are denying our grandson if we don't buy him something that she wants .

ThisWayForCrazy Mon 14-Oct-13 12:35:57

My parents had this with my brothers ex. Demanding money in order for anyone to see my nephew, expensive toys/presents list given, if we didn't include her children from previous relationships she would say we were no longer allowed to see him. It was 3 years of emotional abuse from her. In the end we all just stopped pandering. His birthday/Christmas money goes in a bank account and he gets a small gift. She was told that if she wanted to continue on this path we would go to court for access. She soon changed.

ThisWayForCrazy Mon 14-Oct-13 12:36:45

My parents had this with my brothers ex. Demanding money in order for anyone to see my nephew, expensive toys/presents list given, if we didn't include her children from previous relationships she would say we were no longer allowed to see him. It was 3 years of emotional abuse from her. In the end we all just stopped pandering. His birthday/Christmas money goes in a bank account and he gets a small gift. She was told that if she wanted to continue on this path we would go to court for access. She soon changed.

Totallyblurred Mon 14-Oct-13 12:46:03

No I wouldn't give in to her demands, like you said open an account/buy gifts for your house. Pandering to her demands Is just going to enable her behaviour in the future. She sounds charming shock

professorgrommit Mon 14-Oct-13 13:51:42

Is dp paying maintenance? He should be and should be paying it to his childrens mother.

AuntyVirus Mon 14-Oct-13 14:15:34

Thank you for replies , I think we will keep to our original idea of opening account for grandson. Not sure what we will do with regards to buying for her daughter . Part of me is thinking why should we bother as her mother has created this situation where we are not part of their family, so why should we make the effort , but at the same time I know it's not her dd fault .

Dss had been putting money away for his son which he gave to his ex on Saturday . Paying for his son is not the issue it's the way his ex has treat dss , not putting name on bc then stopping all contact because she felt like it is the problem .

mumsforjustice Mon 14-Oct-13 19:17:31

If he withholding maintenance from his sons mother, he's in the wrong. He should pay on time in full. No wonder she does not want to involve him.

AuntyVirus Mon 14-Oct-13 19:52:59

He hadn't been withholding maintenance from him, she just decided one day that she no longer wanted Dss to be part of their family .
Saturday was the first chance that he had seen her to give her the money . Given her track record I think it was only right that he should hand it to her , what would stop her saying she hadn't received it if he just posted it , or left it with someone .

balia Mon 14-Oct-13 19:53:38

Did he give her cash? Not a good idea as she can deny it. I'd advise DSS to go to the CSA himself - having a third party deal with money can reduce conflict. There is no reason why you should contribute anything directly if you would rather put money in an account. If your DSS is going through the courts for PR he could also apply for contact so he can build a relationship with his child away from the conflict situation.

AuntyVirus Mon 14-Oct-13 19:54:49

Previous to her contacting Dss last week , she refused to anwser his calls , texts or the door to him .

LineRunner Mon 14-Oct-13 20:05:38

He must owe her child support, then?

He needs to be paying it every week or month, into her bank account; or he should be doing this via CSA who will organise it all, as balia says. This has no connection with contact.

It will put things on a much more stable - and legal - footing.

AuntyVirus Mon 14-Oct-13 20:16:21

He does not owe her as far as I am aware. He gave her lump sum on Saturday which he had been putting away every week and was for her dd ( who btw he does not have to legally provide for)and his ds.
They did live together before they split , and Dss paid for everything as ex does not work .
I will tell him that he should now go through the csa .

mumandboys123 Mon 14-Oct-13 20:17:35

whilst the courts separate maintenance and contact (you will get contact with a child you don't support financially, for example, on the basis that it's not the child's fault and the child deserves a relationship with both of his/her parents), if you are going to end up in court, you need to be seen to be 'whiter than white'. Any half decent solicitor will throw in the 'sir, he has not paid maintenance for 1 week/month/year' as a method by which the father's commitment to his child is clearly called into question. You need to be the one whose solicitor says 'sir, despite not seeing his child for 1 week/month/year, he has continued to do right by the child and ensure he is financially supported'. The difference is huge and whilst it shouldnt' make any difference, anecdotal evidence would suggest it does.

Contact the CSA and start paying maintenance regularly before any legal paperwork is filed.

AuntyVirus Mon 14-Oct-13 20:23:02

Thank you for your advice I will make sure Dss goes through all the correct procedures from now on .

My original post was more about the demands ex wanted from myself and Dss fatherr . Wanting a £100 each for her dd and our grandson plus gifts and clothes for Xmas. Even though she does not want us to be part of their lives .

ChinaCupsandSaucers Mon 14-Oct-13 20:25:16

Can a NRP apply to pay via the CSA when the RP hasn't actually made a claim?

AuntyVirus Mon 14-Oct-13 20:29:24

That is a good question china . I am also now wondering with Dss not named on birth certificate will it have to be his ex who has to contact them.

JammieMummy Mon 14-Oct-13 20:43:31

My biggest advice for your DSS is to go through the courts now. This woman will string him along for as long as it suits her and will always use your grandson as bribery. If you go to court you will have a court order about contact and that is legally enforceable if required (which I hope it won't be). If money is an issue he can represent himself or instruct a barrister directly (missing out a middleman solicitor and thereby cutting costs). In the interim I would send a gift or two (nothing extravagant) with a note saying that you have put a sum of money (no specific amount) in a savings account for your grandson when he turns 18. I would send similar gifts to her DD as I would not want a small child to feel left out at Christmas time especially as she is at an age where she knows about gifts etc and the baby is exactly that and so won't know what you got him.

I have considerable experience in this area and have never known a judge, considering a section 8 contact application, be in the least bit interested in if maintenance has been paid. If a resident parent even tries to raise it the Judge will often cut them off with a "we are only interested in what is best for the children Mrs Smith, there are other avenues for you to pursue that" and I do not know any solicitor or barrister who would advise that approach (if a client insists on it, it is another matter).

On the reverse I have known judges be heavily critical of fathers for leaving a considerable period of time between realising contact cannot be arranged between themselves and making the application. This would be a greater indication of commitment to a child. Before the matter is taken to court mediation is almost always the first step and I would hope that your DSS and ex could come to some agreement at this stage, but bear in mind that if she is playing you now she is likely to continue to do that.

mumsforjustice Mon 14-Oct-13 21:35:32

Sounds like a deadbeat dad whose refusing to support his children. the "keeping in an account" is just as much manipulative bs when you need to put food on table and buy school clothes; courts might ignore but in rl, no surprise ex is hostile is been left to provide and bring up their baby alone... Sorry op. But no sympathy to say the least

mumandboys123 Mon 14-Oct-13 22:05:07

I don't agree jammiemummy - I have been through the court system and the financial side of things played a huge part in the decisions that were made by CAFCASS in allowing me to relocate with the children, despite a history of shared care. In fact, my financial survival post-divorce was paramount given that the ex showed over a prolonged period that he had no interest whatsoever in supporting the children other than providing a meal or two when with him. My focus with CAFCASs was purely financial. The courts should not condone one parent who deliberately sets out to impoverish the other at the expensive of their children's welfare. And this is exactly the game my ex played with me.

You cannot stand up in court and point the finger if you are not playing the game properly yourself. I have seen countless posts which show that the non -payment of maintenance is routinely raised by solicitors and barristers in court. Of course a judge can't be seen to take it into account but it does show just what commitment is being made towards the children concerned. You cannot say you care for them if you are not prepared to provide a minimum, regular financial support.

elliebellys Mon 14-Oct-13 22:46:16

Yes an nrp can open a case with csa

AuntyVirus Tue 15-Oct-13 09:37:48

Mumsfor Dss is not a deadbeat dad, his ex was the one who decided that one day he was not to be involved in hers or her children's life . He tried contacting her went to her house every week even when she was in refusing to answer the door. It only now SHE has decided to respond .

What sort of a mother and partner would make an appointment to register sons birth and not tell his father. She done this whilst still in a relationship with Dss and he still stayed with her paying the bills in her house and providing for the family until she decided she had enough .

Dss is contacting csa today , will they contact his ex and let her know ?

YoureBeingADick Tue 15-Oct-13 09:42:45

just in regard to YOUR contact with the DC. it is possible for grandparents to be granted a contact order even if your son isn't seeing the child. or even if he is. it's worth considering if you think she's going to dick about with their contact with you. get it all formalised and sort xmases etc so you can aske the dcs yourself what they want.

UC Tue 15-Oct-13 10:23:31

AuntyV, I remember your previous threads on this sorry tale, and I think those who are criticising your son might perhaps do a search to find your previous threads on this. It all sounds dreadful for all of you.

I think the only thing you can do is try to sort this via the courts. See if you can get some free initial legal advice? Contact the CSA. Contact Citizens Advice?

Good luck.

JammieMummy Tue 15-Oct-13 10:49:56

mummyandboys you were applying for a Specific Issues Order to enable you to move, in those circumstances finances, the lifestyle afforded to the children, the mental wellbeing and support available to the mother if allowed/not allowed to move, new school location and even type of property relocating too would all be taken into consideration (along with many more points). That is not what is being discussed here, we are looking at a straight section 8 contact order with the addition of a PR Order. I deal with all of these applications on a daily basis.

OP - I would hate my post above to suggest that your DSS shouldn't pay child support and feel you are taking the right steps in contacting the CSA and begining the process, but my reading of your post was what you should do in relations to this Christmas and how you should manage the situation. I think I answered that above, I would almost meet the ex half way, in providing some gifts but also putting money in to a bank account for him.

This woman is clearly manipulative (from what you have said) and your grandson has a right to see his father (as long as he is not abusive in anyway) and have a reltaionship with his paternal family, if she will not allow that to happen, or place conditions on contact then, unfortunately, I feel you have no choice but to take the control out of her hands and put it in the hands of the court. Some CAB offices offer considerable help in preparing a contact case for either free or a reduced price so well worth checking with them.

Good luck to your son and I hope you get to see your grandson too.

mumandboys123 Tue 15-Oct-13 12:57:10

with all due respect, I think I know why I went to court and it wasn't for a Specific Issue Order. I went for - and obtained - a Residence Order within which my ex's application for a Prohibited Steps Order to stop me moving was initially granted and then revoked.

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