Finances

[theredhen]

Ok, so after a "discussion" with dp last night about our heating bill where I felt he was being an arse slightly unreasonable and accusing me of using too much heating in our new home because of the way I had set up the heating controls. He claims he's just worried about the cost but it felt like he was blaming me.

It's time to get the household expenses sorted properly. We've been working on a system where I buy all the food (which is half our total household costs) and pay for own car, clothes and anything for ds etc. He pays the bills, his car and anything for his kids.

My income is made up of part time employment, part time self employment and rental income from my old house.

Dp is employed and earns over three times what I do.

My ds lives with us pretty much full time with occasional weekends at his dads. Dsd2 lives with us 6 days a week, dsd1 and dsd4 2 to 3 days a week. So obviously his kids eat more, use more heating etc because there are more of them. However, I don't really want to get into the detail of who uses more electric or water etc.as I feel that seems petty.

So would a 1/3 split of household expenses seem fair with dp paying 2/3? Based on him earning three times what I do.

Currently dp pays for nearly all our going out, holidays etc (which we do a lot) but I would actually prefer to stay in sometimes which he seems to think is boring and as he works mainly from home, he says he likes a change of scenery. I'm prepared to contribute a bit more than I do now but would actually prefer some soft furnishings than constant meals out.

Thoughts please?

[Feelingbetterbyfar]

Redhen, even after maintenance etc has been deducted from dh income, he still earns about twice as much as me overall (bonuses etc).
I don't get to see his bank statements but am given a fair idea.

He pays a bit more than me into our extra joint account to pay for bills, food and any extras we all need/ use. My ds lives with us, his ds 50:50, his dd "visits" regularly. Both dsc greatly appreciate the generous amounts of food offered here (and I've occasionally jokingly remarked that the only reason dsc like come over is to eat, not because he is the "better" parent).

We don't go out much, but only because I want to spend our money on the house, furnishings, garden stuff... Dh would I think like to go out more. His dc also like him spending on their entertainment.
When we can agree on extras, we take care of our own kids, so that's fair.

I've come to realize that being a partner means being entitled to the same generosity dh shows to dc. Otherwise you are merely the housekeeper.
Money signifies too much in our culture, and if a dad wants to spoil dc materially, he'd better be in a position to do same for partner (and perhaps occasionally for dsc as well). Otherwise its not on.

Your ideas on finances seem very sound. Get it sorted so that you feel respected and appreciated, you probably do more for all kids/ round the house anyway... (Dh takes me on a weekend trip once or even twice a year to "thank" me for my incredibly staggeringly large input regarding raising his dc.

[ladydeedy]

I think you need an honest chat. Sometimes it is not about actual money in or out from each party, but perception. And the other work/input done by each parent. For example, I am the main earner and my DH does a lot of work on our home and cares for his DS and our dog, garden etc, does all the housework, washing, shopping, cooking ironing, general organising whilst I work full time and he is freelance/parttime. Sometimes it is just about appreciating the other person's input. But if you feel it is not valued or you are being criticised, you need to have an honest chat and get the books/bank statements on the table and agree to a budget, not least any big expenditure such as holidays etc....

[purpleroses]

Not sure I know the answers, but feel I'm struggling with similar issues as to how you actually blend your finances (or don't) when you are living together but don't have any joint DCs and have unequal incomes (very unequal in our case). If people have joint DCs, then it seems easier in a way, as you need to merge finances in a way - though DP tells me his parents (who're still married) never had joint finances. That's his model of how things work. He's generous if needs be and I don't go without, but struggle to find how you have a conversation about it without seeming like I'm trying to get his money

I've come to realize that being a partner means being entitled to the same generosity dh shows to dc. Otherwise you are merely the housekeeper. - that's a really interesting point, feelingbetter Do you think you have a right to expect to be treated equally? Part of me feels I ought to be grateful to DP if he chooses to spend his money on things for me or my DCs. But part of me thinks that it would be unworkable not to, so I should expect him to do so.

Sounds like you're stuck between two models of how to do things redhen - on the one hand you're a couple whose finances are inter-related, but on the other hand you're both responsible for your own DCs, and therefore keeping separate finances but within the one household budget.

When one person earns more, is it fair to share the essentials on a 50-50 basis, and for them to have their "spare" money to spend as they like? If so, then it would be fair enough for your DP to decide what the extra's spent on (going out, rather than furniture). Or is it fair to split the essentials in line with the amounts you both earn (ie your DP pays 2/3 or whatever), so that you both have some spare money for luxuries? I'm really not sure what the right answer is here. If you were a family with just joint DCs and/or one of you was earning less because you were at home looking after them, then it certainly wouldn't be fair for the higher earner to control all the luxury spending. But if you're both earning and both have separate DCs then it's more difficult.

Is it possible to feel like you're a team but both have entirely separate finances?

[witchofmiddx]

I don't think it's possible to feel like a team and have seperate finances because does that not then create a divide between children's lifestyles, even more marked if they live together?

I am a sham with no joint children with my dh, but before we married we agreed that the 5 had to be treated equally- how can u possibly blend a family but not finances?

[ivykaty44]

Ok this is how I see things being fair

work out the bills for 12 months

for food have a weekly average and take it to 52 weeks

so if the bills council tax, mortgage, house insurance water bill etc come to 24000 then divide by 12 and the bills are 2400 per month.

Now you have to find the percentage each that covers this figure, so if you both pay 25% of your wages would that cover the figure or would it need to be 33% from each of your monthly wage figure to cover it?

That way you are both paying the same

so if you make 20k net and your dp makes 60k net

so you 1666 and him 4998

so it may be you both pay 36% of your wages into the bill pot to cover the 2400 per month

At the end of the day though you will both have paid the same amount

what is left from your income is yours, but it means you both pay your way equally according to what your earnings/income is and doens't leave one of you financially strapped or the other ver well off as they don't have to pay their share of the bills

[stepmooster]

For me having been the higher earner and having paid quite a fair amount of my ex's debts off and never see it return once we split I was damn sure I wasn't go to be taken for a ride again. Maybe I could have taken my ex to court, but I was about to work abroad and I just had to let it go.

Fast forward to my DH and I, we used to bicker over whose turn it was to pay for shopping and before we married he paid me a fixed sum each month as rent and I covered the bills out my account.

When we married the first monday afterwards we went to the bank and set up a joint account. We still have our own separate accounts with our savings etc, but all pay goes into this one joint account.

I think the security of being married has allowed me to view us as being one financial entity. For instance I view the CM and credit card DH has to pay as a joint responsibilty. There is no way I would have ever thought like that before being married.

For me at least it was simple, if DH was not willing to make a commitment to me in law then I was not willing to become one financial entity. It wasn't the reason we got married, just I wanted the security that marriage brings especially when kids are involved.

Do you think that your DP may feel the same?

[Feelingbetterbyfar]

Purple, just to answer your question, yes, now I do feel this right quite distinctly.
We first lived together for a year and put equal amounts into joint account for bills, food shopping, etc. Wasn't really fair of then dp because he and his 2 dc who came to eat/ watch tv/ use pcs... every second day or so were clearly consuming more on food/ electricity than me and my ds (who still eats like a bird...). Meanwhile most of his relatively high earnings were going to ex to cover maintenance plus additional funding of private schools and anything else she felt she could guilt him into paying . In time this really pissed me off because I felt I was helping to fund dsc lifestyle.

Once we got married I insisted dh pay more into joint funds to which he reluctantly agreed, reluctant because he felt he had to prove to ex that he was not a deadbeat dad but an over the top fantastic provider!!

Our situation has since changed quite dramatically, dsd has left private education (both dsc hated the school and but dss must stay another year according to ex wishes, fine with me, none of my business). Dss now lives with us 50:50. Dh now keeps most of his earnings but is loathe to share information with me.
As I married him while he was practically penniless and put all my savings into our present home (he needed a loan he will be paying back for years to come) I don't he think he can accuse me of wanting his money. But what I want is respect and not the feeling he is using me (and he would, maybe most men would take advantage of a woman? Like stepmooster I got burned once and vowed never again).
I have the advantage of couple counseling atm and basically get a lot of backing, but I don't push dh into anything, I just make my position clear and he can deal with it or not.

[Kaluki]

You have the heating on now???
DP earns twice as much as me so he puts twice as much as me into the joint account each month which pays for all bills/food etc
He usually pays for things when we go out and we each pay for stuff for our respective dc.
So I think the split of 1/3 (you) and 2/3 (him) seems absolutely fair.

[theredhen]

Thanks for all the replies.

Kaluki, we did a check on the first quarter heating costs in out new home and it was a lot more than we expected. He blamed me for not turning setting the heating controls "properly". Basically he thinks we've used heating when we didn't need to, ie when we are asleep or at work. I disagree and pointed out he was the one who got the plumber out to look at the controls and explain how they worked and I didn't even see him!

Anyway, I think I just felt that because I'm not physically contributing to the heating bills, that he felt it was all his problem and insinuated that I won't care be because I don't pay the bill. He denies that so it may just be me being a bit paranoid and sensitive.

We set up a joint account three years ago with the intention of using it as a bills account. However, we have never used it because he hasn't got round to transferring the bills into joint names or changing the direct debits. I've reminded him a few times but he hasn't bothered. I honestly think he just can't be bothered and there no other reason. I felt its worked ok because I buy the food but I also know I'm putting far more in percentage terms of my income into the pot.

It also means I can't phone electric suppliers etc which just reinforces the feeling that I'm not part of the family and its dp's home still.

So we've had a chat and I've told him i would really like to get things sorted for the 1st August. He's said, he's fine with that, but I'm sure I will need to give him a kick up the backside.

Dp is very generous and never complains about money. However, it's important to me that I'm contributing to all aspects of our life despite that not being with as much as dp.

[LittleFrieda]

You aren't really a couple/family, you are flatsharers.