ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.

CSA payments when a full time student?

(72 Posts)
cherryonthetop2013 Mon 22-Apr-13 18:38:21

I've also posted in the student bit but it doesn't seem very busy over there so wondered if anybody in step parents would be able to answer my question.

I'm in the process of applying for a uni place and now DP has caught the bug and wants to do it also.
I'm just number crunching to see whether we would be able to afford for us both to be studying full time and I think we might JUST be able to manage, but I can't find any info online about whether the CSA would consider student loans and grants to be income and how much we'd have to pay for his 2 children to his previous marriage.

Before anybody has a go at me or DP, this is purely a case of whether we would be able to make ends meet if chooses to do this. But if he does then he'll be earning double what he currently does once qualified which is then going to benefit all the children.

swingofthings Sun 03-Jan-16 17:52:46

kjface123 resurrected the thread to state her views on the matter, clearly thinking that her OH is doing the right thing considering giving up a well paid job to go back to studying, and if the ex doesn't like it, that's tough.

She hasn't been back herself though only posted a few days ago

Learningtoletgo Sun 03-Jan-16 12:34:33

Neither did I Rude elf blush

Oops!

SoapandGloryisDivine Sun 03-Jan-16 12:33:09

Easily done! grin

RudeElf Sun 03-Jan-16 12:25:05

blush oops! Didnt realise this was an old thread.

SoapandGloryisDivine Sun 03-Jan-16 12:09:19

Learning this is an old thread, started back in 2013. so I don't think the OP would be coming back anyway.

Learningtoletgo Sun 03-Jan-16 12:00:46

I don't think the OP is coming back. We weren't saying what she wanted to hear.

Sad thing is from the sound of it they'll probably go through with it thinking that they are doing the right thing sad

I feel sorry for the RP.

swingofthings Sun 03-Jan-16 08:49:19

What is most incredible is that kjface actually states that her OH is currently owning a good salary, so it's not even a case of looking to earn more so that the children are better off.

It amazes me how so many parents seem to think that being a mature student is an entitlement. Everyone has the opportunity to study and have a career before having children. The moment you decide to have the children first, you accept they come first, end of. If you can fit studying around continuing to support your children, then great, if not, you accept that something has to give (or wait until children are grown up) and that has to be work satisfaction.

RudeElf Sat 02-Jan-16 20:13:45

it doesn't make him any less of a dad since when does money come into his fathering abilities?

You think its free to parent kids? How do they eat and have clothes and beds to sleep in without money?

RudeElf Sat 02-Jan-16 20:06:55

I think if you opt out of paying for your DC's upbringing then you are actually depending on their other parent picking up the slack and so essentially they are subbing you. (So the man in the OP would be supported in his degree by his ex wife) If it is unavoidable due to becoming unemployed (redundancy or illness) then that is unfortunate but nothing can be done about it and you've nothing to feel ashamed about. However actually choosing not to support them is shameful and if it was my partner choosing to do it i would be very worried about where my own children lay on his list of priorities. Tbh i dont think i'd stick around to find out.

Fwiw i studied as a single parent, i found it incredibly tough to fit in work around the classes and also to find time in the evenings to study. In the end i gave up as my priorities are parenting DC then money to feed them. me studying comes way down the list. I think OP could be in for a shock if she thinks both of them studying at the same time will be easier! Everything i experienced tells me that will be one stressed out household for the next 3 years. Two parents stressing over exams and essays, two parents trying to juggle work and childcare at the same time as fitting in studying at home, especially with a baby! It will be tough going. In your shoes i would suggest one of you doing it now and one of you doing it when the first one is qualified and working in the neely acquired higher paying job.

yankeecandle4 Sat 02-Jan-16 19:27:16

As an aside issue OP do not bank on these "great jobs" that will be waiting for you post graduation. "Starter" jobs for PhD graduates aren't even that great nowadays, let alone a mature under graduate with 4 dependents.

I was a mature student and it was very tough working around growing kids. It isn't just lectures during the day, my degree involved group collaboration etc which often had to happen on evenings (when I would usually be driving several children to different clubs) that I wasn't aware of. My co-students were all uni aged so would not factor in my responsibilities.

I would second the idea of distance learning for your OH. I don't want to go into the lack of maintenance issue as it is upsetting to me. My DF "caught a bug" of sorts and maintenance dropped considerably leaving my Mum (who had a good job) in financial diffs. I can still feel the anxiety that I had as a child watching my Mum cry worrying about bills being paid on time.

SoapandGloryisDivine Sat 02-Jan-16 19:13:16

Even people in couples can't just decide that one or both of them want to do a course and reduce their income temporarily in order to do so.

Children may benefit in the longterm, but if they suffer in the mean time then it's not worth it. They could fall behind at school because they aren't eating properly for example, and I would feel an immense guilt if I saw my children suffering whilst I "pursued my dreams".

Bananasinpyjamas1 Sat 02-Jan-16 16:36:37

I've nothing against anyone wanting to better themselves and learn. But there is a selfish way to do it and an unselfish way. My DP supports his Ex and kids and works himself to the bone to make sure they are all OK, to the point where we scrimp and save. He wouldn't think of taking a course and dropping the responsibility onto his Ex.

My Ex, has frequently reduced payments and just puts his head in the sand, while I have worked constantly as a single mother - I'd have loved to take a course but my child needs feeding.

If your DP works out something fairly with his Ex then fine but he's fooling himself if he thinks his kids are magically going to be housed, fed and clothed on less.

lookluv Sat 02-Jan-16 13:07:32

Please agree that we should freeload off his EX!

Good that he wants to better himself, but not to the point that for 3 yrs, he expects to effectively take monies from his children to fund this. His children MAY see a benefit in the future but with an attitude like this, I doubt they will.

In the mean time his EX will have paid for everything and given him effectively a lump sum that he does not have to repay. I am sure you will of course pay her the monies you should have paid for the duration of the course, once he is back in employment.

The main carer parent does not get to do that and that you and your partner think it is morally wrong to stop supporting his DCs, speaks more about you both as people. This is not the same as losing your job, taking a pay cut etc.

Xalla and her partner had it right they continued to pay. ( the issue of contact being withdrawn is wrong)

Morally wrong - whatever way you look at it.

swingofthings Fri 01-Jan-16 14:32:47

My husband has a great job and the pay is great, however he is miserable and wants a different career I support him all the way and if his ex partner doesn't ( his sons mum) then it's tough!

Then do it part-time in the evening like most caring parents do. Others who are miserable at their job (me included), bear it because they know that supporting their children comes way higher as a priority than loving their job.

I thing nrp deciding to return to studying resulting in a significant increase in support for their children are amongst the most selfish parents around. It makes me laugh when they then go and say that their ex alienated their kids against them when it most cases, it is the children who realise what a selfish choice it is.
It also makes me laugh that adults who go back to studying for a degree seem so confident that they will get a much more enjoyable job that will pay more! Most people with degrees are not happy in their job or with the pay and that's after years of experience. Thinking that coming out of a degree, employers will line up to beg you to take on a high paid job is total utopia.

People are so caught up in money these days it's so upsetting to read such negativity about someone that wants to better themselves!
Do you have the same attitude towards the government that wants to cut down on tax credits? I very much bet not, but then when it is other's money, it doesn't matter half as much!

Learningtoletgo Fri 01-Jan-16 11:02:05

Why can't he work full time and do a distance learning degree? I did. That how I got my Masters. It's hard work with kids but is doable. Several of my friends did this successfully as well. We all have demanding stressful jobs that involve travel and have small children to juggle as well. You just need to be really organised and disciplined.

There is no reason why he has to give up work and go full time with a bit of bar work or whatever on the side. Depends on how much he wants the qualification or does he just want to be a full time student

BTW a little hypocritical OP posting on MN asking for advice then slagging everyone off for being on MN hmm

cannotlogin Thu 31-Dec-15 16:17:06

If I stopped supporting my children, they would be removed from my care. It is an absolute injustice to all the hardworking PWC out there that it is accepted in law that a NRP can do whatever they wish financially to their child and still have a legal right to a relationship with them.

lunar1 Thu 31-Dec-15 15:24:22

People are saying what they are because children still need to be fed. Yes dh and I could fuck off back to uni, not pay the bills and not put food on the table. Would anyone think that is ok?

Why is it ok to not provide for your children just because you don't live with them? Such a double standard.

And unless the op has hired a PI id love to know how she has so much information on the children's mothers finances and circumstances, especially as there has been no contact for a year.

A resident parent can't just abdicate responsibility for years, they would be prosecuted. The same should apply for a NRP.

Kjface123 Thu 31-Dec-15 12:11:13

I have just been googling Csa payments and my husband want to go back to college, I cannot believe the bull that people think they have a right to say on here! If your partner wants to go back to full time education hats off to him, it doesn't make him any less of a dad since when does money come into his fathering abilities? I'm a student and have been for many years, I'm not throwned upon because my income is low for my son? Why should a man be!? I'm sure if your partners ex ( the mother of the children ) went back into education she wouldn't be looked down on neither, so why can't their dad do it? Having kids doesn't mean you can't follow your dreams! My husband has a great job and the pay is great, however he is miserable and wants a different career I support him all the way and if his ex partner doesn't ( his sons mum) then it's tough! We have him 3 nights a week, pay for clothes shoes hair cuts and holidays! So what if he can't pay her anything while he is at uni! Like this lady said afterward they will be paying double maintenance anyway! People are so caught up in money these days it's so upsetting to read such negativity about someone that wants to better themselves!

breaktheroutine Fri 17-May-13 22:33:49

hmm I asked a poster a specific factual question about her circumstances shed posted about

mumandboys123 Fri 17-May-13 22:07:38

no breaktheroutine, it isn't. but then you're the one who shifted the conversation to maintenance and household income and tax credits.

breaktheroutine Fri 17-May-13 21:08:25

How does he have access to the account if you set it up? Did you give him a passbook/password? That would seem quite foolish if you have such a low opinion of his use of money

Theydeserve Fri 17-May-13 20:50:17

Sorry did not explain myself well - EX thinks that when he does pay that the money should go into an account just for the DCs, so they can see later that he did help.

We did this for a while and on the few occasions he came to see his DCs/ had them stay (11nights in one year) he used the monies in that account to buy them supper, take out for a drink and entertain! not exactly maintenance.

It now goes into an account for their Uni education( his not my suggestion) but as it currently has £161 in one year I think you get the picture that not much is being contributed.This is from the man who complained DC had short jeans and in 18 months has bought 1 sweatshirt, 3 pairs of pants and pair of walking boots between 2 kids.

Did I forget he earns £70K +

breaktheroutine Fri 17-May-13 20:22:52

Mumandboys this isn't a thread about the rights or wrongs if maintenance disregard

mumandboys123 Fri 17-May-13 20:14:23

yes, it can be understated. But it also used to be possible that a bloody mined NRP could stop start and stop start payments causing constant re-assessment of tax credits - usually meaning they were stopped altogether (often for weeks at a time) whilst a new amount was calculated...only for that to change again a few weeks later. The difficulties this could cause in the PWC's household is well documented anecdotally and in a worse case scenario can result in the PWC not being able to pay for childcare resulting in the loss of paid work.

breaktheroutine Fri 17-May-13 19:41:00

The effect is exactly the same. Someone could claim max tax credits even if they received hundreds of pounds a month in maintenance. So the household income for tax credit purposes can be massively understated in a PWC household

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