Child support, family arrangement

[littlerayofsomething]

Hi,

Dh and I have dsd who's 9 for 3 nights a week she's with her GPs 1 night and her mum 3 nights. The relationship between dh and ex is amicable though I rarely see or speak to her.

Dh currently pays £70 a week to his ex, they have an arrangement between them however, as we have her half of the time and we are clothing her when she is with us which gets taken back to her mums and she re packs her bag to come back to us with none of the nice stuff we have bought (oh well)

we pay half of school uniform, supplies, trips, swimming lessons, drama and tennis and other payments for holidays etc.

At the end of the month when all our payments have left the account we are left with very little to enjoy ourselves with. I am certainly not suggesting sd goes without but I do think he is paying a little too much.

We have talked about this and he says he too feels it's a little much and it does over stretch us a bit. His ex works also and somehow manages to have 2 holidays a year. We don't go on holiday we've had 1 in 6 years due to the financial side. So do you think it's wrong to perhaps reduce her payments? What does child support cover?

[nambypambysm]

For starters, forget the holidays and your perception of her life being all roses. Maybe it is, maybe she's up to her eyes in debt, maybe she lives on baked beans on toast, maybe she's screwing your DH, the benefits system and has a rich boyfrined - at the end of the day the only person who will suffer each and every time you let the thought come in to your head, is you. So just forget that bit.

Then the "we pay half" bit. Does your DH have the kind of relationship where they can talk about this amicably so they can get a clear picture of the child's costs? My ex has no idea what costs our DD involves and beleives he pays me too much (190 a month with him havings 2/3rds contact) but in reality it covers half of her costs which is fair. Although, when I worked I had extortionate childcare costs which he didn't help me with so his maintenance didn't come close to half of her costs.

Does his ex have childcare costs? Does she get tax credits? If she does, they may cover 80% of the costs so it's worth taking in to account what they are too.

Of course, you could always take the guess work out and use the CSA maintenance calculator to work out what he needs to pay and go from there. What does he earn after tax?

IMO (and opinions vary) CM should cover the costs of "maintainign the child" so every cost that the child has bar gifts and extras. If the child never stays with Dad then the CM should cover half of all the necssary costs. If the child is with Dad 2 days a week then it should cover half the costs of the extra 3 days the child is with Mum.

Where it gets tricky is with 50/50... because although it would seem sensible to say that no maintenance should be paid, there is usually one parent left picking up the tab for most things. So CM is still appropriate.

I personally don't beleive that CM should cover any expenses of the other parent. But opinions are split there as I know a couple who decided that when they split the mum would stay at home rather than work as it was best for the child so Dad paid more to support her to do it. Then again I know a Mum who took it upon herself not to work well in to the child's teenage years and fully expected her ex husband to fund her decision... not cool IMO.

My advice would be to go down the CSA route, pay what's due and let go

[theredhen]

He should be paying 15 percent of his net salary as a minimum with reductions for the three overnights. Does he do that?

His ex will probably be getting child benefit and tax credits which can boost her income substantially. My dp used to feel sorry for his ex til I pointed out via an entitlement website what she gets in benefits. He couldn't believe it's as much as he earns!

Work out the CSA rate and use that as a starting point.

[purpleroses]

Either he should be paying her a reasonable contribution (CSA would work it out as around 9% of his net salary - 15% minus 3/7 for the overnights) and then should expect her to pay for all the costs like uniform, school trips, etc.

Or they should split everything equally, in which case he shouldn't be paying her anything.

Are they actually splitting everything though, do you think? Childcare? Shoes, coats, birthday parties, etc? If they are, then it doesn't really sound fair.

[littlerayofsomething]

We aren't intending to go the CSA route unless she objects to a reduction, so far it's amicable which is how we want to keep it. Purpleroses could you explain a little more. I thought CSA take 15% of net income which is what we are now looking at which does reduce her weekly payments some.

Everything is split 50/50 it comes out of our joint account so I am aware of each payment.

I'd like to find somewhere a clear definition of child support a break down of what the £70 pays for.

[planetpotty]

There is a CSA calculator on line that takes into account how many nights you have SDC and you're given the figure that is suggested by CSA you don't actually have use them IYSWIM it's simple takes a couple of mins. Of course this is not the whole answer to your OP, IMO its best if you can come to a figure all party's are at least ok with if not happy. Good luck

[NotaDisneyMum]

OP - There is no breakdown.

The CSA explained to me (as the RP) that the expectation is that the RP in receipt of CM is financially responsible for the DC, in terms of supplying what they need, but admitted that it was not enforceable and if the DCs are going without essentials despite CM being paid then nothing can be done.

[purpleroses]

They work out what 15% of your net income is, and then they reduce this by 1/7 for each night of the week that you have the DCs. So they will reduce the 15% by 3/7, which will leave you paying roughly 9% of net income. The reduction is because it's assumed you're paying for some things when you have them. But you still pay something because it's assumed that the resident parent is responsible for all the things like clothes, school trips, etc. Sounds like you could offer her a choice of either splitting everything 50-50, or acknowledging that your DP's £70 a week is supposed to cover these things.

[Harbles]

Sorry, but they weren't married were they? I know that it gets a lot more complex than just the CSA total if they were. My DP and I are looking at much larger payments than the CSA calculator suggests when the settlement is finally agreed, even though they were only married for an exceedingly short time and we have DSD for 2 - 3 nights a week alternating.

Sorry, this has beeing going on for years for me and is one of the things that I'm not dealing well with anymore.

[nambypambysm]

Spousal maintenance is very very rare now, there may be an initial high settlement but monthly payments will almost always be child support only - unless he's very wealthy.

Court orders for child maintenance only last a year anyway, if either parent then wants to go through CSA they can.

[Harbles]

This really isn't what we're being advised. And we are definitely not wealthy (good grief I wish we were) and all of us (myself, my DP and his ex-wife) are all earning very similar amounts. DP and his ex have/had a mortgage together and he cannot just give his ex the property and the mortgage to pay herself because he is responsible for providing a home for his child - and therefore the resident parent. This has horrible repercussions for us because we won't be able to get a mortgage ourselves. And if she were made to leave the property she is likely to be driven miles out of London and then what about DSDs school and contact and all sorts...
As you say - it is highly unlikely to be classed as spousal maintenance, to be paid after DSD leaves home, but it will be an issue that drives up the maintenance payments. We are likely to have to pay more than twice the CSA calculation according to most of the legal people we have spoken to. If anyone knows differently I'd appreciate hearing. We are already wading into debt because of all this and to be honest... I can't stand the uncertainty anymore.

[NotaDisneyMum]

They are two totally different issues though - one is child maintenance; a payment to the RP to contribute to the expense of raising a child, and the other is part of the financial settlement put in place as part of their divorce to safeguard the DCs home.

Presumably the equity in the house will be split between your DP and his ex once the DCs have reached a certain age/left home?

[nambypambysm]

I'm no expert but yes - as NADM says. You don't want to tie the two figures in to one... If Mum hasn't worked and forfeited a career to raise the children, she deserves some grace time to get back on her feet and a higher proprtion of the settlement of the house if she will be the main carer of the child - else what is she supposes to do? Move in to a council property with the child?

You are right, your partner is responsible for making sure that the child is okay while she is with Mum and that may mean paying towards the mortgage (if the house isn't sold) which will benefit him as he will retain rights over any later sale of the property and get to help put a roof over his child's head. The court may agree higher payments than CSA and IMO that is fair to give Mum some time.

But once Mum has had chance to start working etc (i.e. after a year has passed), as far as I know, the payments can just revert to the CSA guidelines. unless there is spousal maintenace granted - which it won't be unless your DH is a footballer or similar

[nambypambysm]

Oh sorry, just saw that ex-wife is working. So the house will be sold and a higher percentage of the equity given to Mum (as primary carer) or she will choose to keep the house and will have to buy him out of his share (which again, may be small as she is main carer of child) and pay the mortgage herself.

He isn't responsible for putting a roof over the child's head, they both are. And once he has divorced her he certainly isn't responsible for putting a roof over the mother's head. He will be required to pay CM (potentialy at a higher rate if that is what the courts say, but only for a year - you can verify this with the CSA, they will tell you as much) but after that, I would be very surprised if he had to pay anything else. Most divorces are "clean-break" now - the 15% of his salary (minus pro rata when he has her) will be his contribution towards the mother's rent/ food/ bills etc for the child.

What kind of lawyers do you have #I'minthewrongjob