Anyone who is willing to listen/give advice to a selfish old bag!

[gingerbreadlady]

Hi There, nervous about posting as I do know I am not being very nice and am embarrassed to admit it but here goes.
I have 3 DD's and DP has 2 DS's. We also have a baby of our own on the way due in October. Im going to try keeping a very long story brief here. DPs ex wife and mother to the DS's is an alcoholic and drug user. The 2 boys got removed from her care over a year ago and have been either staying with maternal Grandparents where they were happy and settled as this was/is near the school they attend and in the same village as Mum- we live over an hour away.
After a year, sadly 1 G'parent died and the Boys have gone into temporary foster care as it looks like Mum is finally ready after completing various parenting courses and drying out clinics, to have them awarded back to her albeit on a very highly supervised care order. The problem comes in here, Its still a little sketchy as to whether they will go back, not 100% yet and so DP has been asked by the courts and his solicitor if in the event of her not being seen fit can they come and live with him, ie us. If we dont have them this scenario coming into play, they will go into long term care which of COURSE he as a loving and responsible Father does not want and yes, he wants to say they can live with us permantely and we will bring them up. In case you havn't guessed it, I am most firmly NOT in agreement. I do care about them am not without feeling, id be sad and of course feel guilty if they do go into care and I would also hate to let DP down in this way as he has been a wonderful and supportive step father to my own DD's making me as I said, very selfish and its very one sided I know but there is a reason.
Through no fault of their own, bad parenting and being moved house, time in and out of care etc these 2 boys are just horrendous.
The eldest especially who is 11 is intolerable. He swears, steals, lies ALL the time and is extremely manipulative. All to be expected I guess with what hes been through.The younger little boy who is 7 is a bit better but also completely unruly and also swears a lot. I just in all truth cannot cope with them full time and neither can my own 3 DD's. I have a baby on the way and my partner himself is suffering depression and having counselling so I have a lot on my plate and honestly dont think I could survive 2 more kids let alone those 2. The problem is that my DP and rightly so, would leave our home, me, my 3 DD's and our new baby to raise his boys rather than let them go into care. He is a good Dad and says he cannot just abandon them as they are his responsibility so he would have no choice but to "chose" them over me/us even though its a dreadful position for the poor man to be in and we have had some almighty rows about it and my refusal to change my mind and give into to agreeing to give the boys a home. I just know in my heart I cannot do it and I certainly cannot give them the specialist care that they need. SO fully prepared for any comments but and dont really know what I am hoping for by posting except to hopefully find some listening ears as I am quite desperate : (

[Iblameba]

I just pity the two poor boys - it would appear what ever happens they are condemned.

Likelihood of Mum keeping them small.

Best place would be with their Dad and yes life would be hard for a while but may be a more stable home environmnt may help their behaviour.

You are prepared to do everything for your own DCs but expect your DP to abandon his kids and look after your 3 DDs- whilst I can see your point of view,

I am flabbergasted at your selfishness. His DCs will never forget this and I feel so sorry for your DP being put in this position.

There are 6 vulnerable children involved not just your 4 - you do not get the luxury of picking and choosing which ones you want.

Sorry if I sound harsh - would not want you as my DCS step.

[boohoohoo]

Sorry, Im going to be really harsh, your DP needs to put his sons first, if you wont have them then he needs to step up find a home for him and his sons, they must come first, not being a step dad to your two.

God, I know that sounds hard but bloody hell these two need someone to be there for them. (Im a SP by the way, if my DH didnt put his DS first then I would`nt be with him)

[gingerbreadlady]

Totally understand what you are saying and thankyou for your honesty.
I dont expect him to abandon his kids and look after mine, no. I fully understand and support his decision to leave should it come to that. He is doing what any good parent should and if he did turn a blind eye and stay with me whilst his boys went into care I wouldnt love or respect him as much as I do. As I said I feel really sorry for him too, what an awful position to be in.
I too have shocked myself at my feelings, im not the person I thouht I was but I m honest about it. I agree to an extent about not getting the luxury to pick and chose, except we are not married and Yes I do still get a choice who I spend my life with as selfish as that attitude is
Really I dont think it would be at all health for the boys to come and live with someone who cannot tolerate them for more than a weekend- and even that is a struggle. Having call my kids names, stick uo their middle finger at me and steal stuff from my home to mention just the tip of it, is just not something I could do on a fulltime basis and I actually think I would be doing them a worse favour bringing them to live in a house with me, they deserve better but I do have to put my own kids first and for that I wont apologise.

[gingerbreadlady]

Sorry for the awful spelling its not an easy thing to post at best of times but I did come here for a reality check so Im pleased to at least get some responses however harsh and honest

[boohoohoo]

ginger I think youve answered your own question and been really honest too, not easy to do and I admire you for that.<br /> <br /> Look, not everyone is cut out to be a SP, its bloody hard and thankless a lot of the time. Ive worked really hard over the years and its paid off, when I met my DH I married him fully aware of his and my baggage, but I always put the children first be it mine, his or ours.

Of course you have to put your own children first, totally natural if you feel you cant cope, but so has he, so really theres your answer. If you force him to lose his sons, there will come a time that it will bite you on the bum, and vice versa.

Love, move on, stay friends and see what happens in time. Take care x

[Lovetats]

Perhaps the boys' behaviour would improve in a loving but firm family environment.

I'd take them in - in a heartbeat - but just not tolerate any naughtiness or bad language. It's what most people would do, isn't it? Are you sure this isn't an excuse to get rid of your partner?

Plus, why post about this if you're so sure you're right?

[Smurfy1]

It is a very tough situation that I was put in, in January we got DSD 10 fulltime she is VERY emotionally abused and the symptoms are very much akin to ADHD, BUT we have no kids involved but I think my OH would have walked if I had ever thought NO she's not coming, every kid needs a chance and they can be turned around with consistancy and rules and love, unfortunately because their father let them go in care they probably act out like you have described as they probably think whats the point noone wants me/us which is very sad, bad behaviour in children is and should always be seen as a cry for help in my eyes and 5 months with us DSD is a different child, don't get me wrong it's bloody hard but getting asked if she coiuld call me mum made everything worth it for me

I am in a very lucky situation that OH & me work side by side and back each other up which if you take these damaged boys in you will have to with your OH.

Can i ask how would you feel the scenario involved your kids? If your daughters father refused to take them and they ended up in care

[gingerbreadlady]

lovetats, no I adore my DP and as ive said only got praise for him. Unfortunately he himself is quite ill and I am his carer so I have been struggling with that as its coming up a year since hes been very ill,plus the usuals of being a busy Mum and being pregnant, exhausted and hormonal so I just feel I cannot cope as it is let alone with any more.
And no, Im not so sure Im right, I have said all the way through my posts Im being selfish and not defended mself or my descision at all. I dont know why I posted really, just confused, lonely, scared and feeling like a prize bitch

[Lostinsuffolk]

Whilst ur honesty is admirable, I think u should take them in. They're children ffs. They need good care and discipline. Ur dp needs to stand up and take on them and their troubles and it's sad that u don't feel u can join him but if I've made ur decision, why ask for our thoughts?? Yes ur being selfish but it is ur life. Maybe separate homes for a while and see how it goes?? Or have u totally resigned ur self to letting ur dp go?

[NotaDisneyMum]

I'd take them in - in a heartbeat - but just not tolerate any naughtiness or bad language. It's what most people would do, isn't it?

Oh, if only it were that simple

Children who are damaged like this need years of therapy, support and time to heal them - they are violent, abusive, show no respect for authority and will deliberately disregard boundaries in order to test whether the adults in their lives are committed to them.
If their Dad is already being treated from depression, I is likely that it will get worse once he becomes primary parent, with or without the OP's support

I admire your honesty gingerbreadlady - I believe that it is far better to recognise your limitations and accept that you cannot give your DSC what they need right now, than try and manage, fail, and make things worse.

But, living apart need not mean that you and your DP lose your own relationship - it could just be different, and unconventional, but no less important. If you love each other, and are committed, then perhaps relationship counselling could help you find a way of staying connected while raising your own families?
In particular, you will have to make some difficult decisions about your shared yet-to-be-born child, but I am a great believer in making things work for you, rather than behaving in a way that is socially acceptable and "normal".
I feel for you all - it must be a horrendous time for your family

[Lovetats]

Ok, then I guess you really need to talk with your partner, if you're afraid that the bulk of the parenting would fall to you. He needs to step up and work out a plan of action/compromise that will be acceptable to both of you.

I do understand how daunting this must be - I was a step parent myself but my ex-partner was the most horrendous Disney dad and it caused huge ructions between us. It's just that the boys really do deserve a chance to have a happy family life, don't they?

[rosycheeksmum]

OP, I feel for you. I am a mum and a stepmum and I know it's not easy - and my DSD is a lovely little girl who I get on well with.

It's all very well calling you selfish and a bad stepmother, but you're pregnant ffs, you've got to think of your new baby and your DDs and how life will be for them, having to live with two emotionally damaged children.

So yes, it would be the right thing for these boys to come and live with you all, but may not be the best thing for your DDs and new baby, and your family as a whole. I'm not sure how many people would be willing to take two damaged kids in in your situation - how will your DDs feel, having to share a house with two older boys who behave like this?

Your DP doesn't sound like he is putting you first, you are about to have a baby! I don't think you are being a bitch at all,people have such high expectations of stepmothers, you're expected to suck up all the shitty behaviour and crappy treatment from your stepkids and not utter a word of complaint - and if you don't love your stepkids as you do your own, you're a monster. Don't be so hard on yourself. You do what feels right for your family as a whole, not just these two boys. That's not being selfish, it's giving consideration to EVERY member of your household. I wish you all the best.xx

[gingerbreadlady]

Thankyou very much for ALL who posted, rosycheeks you are very kind and notdisneymum, you sound like you have a lot of experience and hit the nail on the head. What I dont want to do is cause them more damage by taking them in because I know its the right thing to do only to realise exactly what I knew in my heart all along that I cannot cope and for it to tear our family apart and let those poor boys down again. I want better for them than I know I can give as they deserve it. And yes as has been said they do deserve a chance at a happy life but they are more likely to get that with their Dad alone than with a stressed out mum with pnd!!

[NewYearsDaysie]

gingerbread I think you are a very brave lady. Both for posting and for dealing with the situation you find yourself in. I had a similar situation and it can cause you so much bad feeling but you are right..sometimes saying no is best for everyone despite it not being seen as the 'right' thing to do.

[brdgrl]

I'm sorry this is your situation. No, you aren't being selfish. And no, it's not as simple or straightforward as just 'taking the boys in a heartbeat'.

I think notadisneymum is right. Is there any possibility of continuing a relationship but not sharing a home?

You can't put your own children at risk. You are stretched to your limits already. Just as your DP has to provide the best environment he can for his sons, you must do the same for your children.

[gingerbreadlady]

THANKYOU for those kind words and understanding.
Its never clear cut in these situations and there is so much more to the situation than I have the time or space to write. It has been nice to offload and I have taken on board ALL of the comments. We still hope they will be able to back to Mum, as this is their choice and what all concerned have been working towards since they were removed a year ago.
The final court case looking at her progress and willingness to stick to her new clean lifestyle on a longterm basis and put the Boys first will determine if they go back or that option is not deemed suitable any longer. We just wanted to be prepared with what we would do should the latter happen

[Iblameba]

I think the knee jerk reaction is what a selfish person you are but nothing is ever that simple and I do not envy you or your DP the position you are in.

No one knows how they would react if they were in your position.

Your heart just hurts for two totally innocent boys whose life has been messed up through no fault of their own.

[Kaluki]

Well maybe it is selfish of you, but it is honest and its better you say it now than in a years time when the boys are in your home and have them feel responsible for your and DPs breakup.
Your priority has to be your Dds and your baby.
If I am completely honest I couldn't take on my DC full time and in your situation I really think I would have to walk away rather than have my DP put them in care.
I really don't envy you

[chelen]

Hi there, so sorry for you all being faced with this very difficult situation.

I think NADM has good suggestions.

I would say that it is possible a good home could turn these children around, it is possible that a good home will make no difference and all that will happen is they will cause chaos for the other children. It all depends on how deeply they have been affected. Have the children had ongoing SS involvement, have they been in trouble at school etc?

Very, very difficult - and to anyone who thinks of judging your response, I would say step parenting is so hard in the best of circumstances, this would be like fostering and step parenting all at once - outside the experience of all but a very small number of people I would say. You are a brave person for facing up to the reality of what potentially lies ahead.

[purpleroses]

I know of another family in a not dis-similar position to you (the gran is actually still caring for the boys most of the time at present, but getting very old) - one thing that was looked into was the possibility of boarding school. There was actually a charity that they knew of that would fund boarding school places for kids from very difficult backgrounds (ie where going into care was a real possibility). Not sure what you or your DP's views on this would be (or what your DSSs would think) but for some kids that might work - or possibly just the 11 year old for now - would give them some structure to their week, and you could provide a home for them at weekends/holiday whilst also getting some breaks.

[nkf]

You don't sound up to the job of parenting very needy children. You have too many children as it is. And if he's depressed, he will probably make a bad job of it too. Why are the children in temporary foster care? They need long term and they need stability and neither you nor your partner sound in a stable place.

[Hopefullyrecovering]

Reading your OP, I think that honestly the best solution for EVERYONE, and taking all needs into account, would be if your DP left and raised his own two boys on his own, whilst providing you and your baby (and your girls) with as much support as he is capable of.

I think this is the best solution because:

1. The boys get some proper continuous care that they can depend upon. It sounds as though their Mum is not able to cope and it must be worse for them to be shuttled in and out of care.
   

1. Your DP does not then have to cope with lifelong guilt at having abandoned his children.
   

1. You do not have to cope with the children that you feel you cannot cope with
   

I'm still in shock that the boys were allowed to go into foster care at all. I'm proud of your DP for stepping up to his responsibilities, despite someone urging him not to.

[glasscompletelybroken]

I am in shock that anyone would think you are selfish.

How is the dad going to care for these 2 difficult boys alone when he is currently depressed and being cared for by the OP?

I have a lot of experience in looking after children who have been through this kind of dificult start in life and what no-one here is considering is the needs of the other children. The impact on their lives is immeasurable.

I wish I had some answers for you but it's a very sad and difficult situation. I think you could look into the boarding school idea of purpleroses. If they boarded during the week and came for weekends it would be slightly more manageable.

[gingerbreadlady]

Thankyou for that glass and also purpleroses for the helpful suggestion and post. I guess anything which involves children, especially vunerable ones does evoke strong emotions and I do undertsand that but really unless youve been through the same situation and know ALL the details of which there were too many to post, then maybe try not to judge what you think you would do as its never that simple and I too thought I would react differently to how I have and I guess we never know what we will do in these situations. Again thankyou to all who posted

[MsIngaFewmarbles]

I really feel for you, what a horrible situation to be put in :( No advice really, just that I think you are very brave and sensible to admit that it is too much for you. Much better than trying knowing it isn't going to work, at least the boys can have a long term plan as soon as the court case is resolved one way or another.