Should we 'force' DSS to go to his mums?

[NoMoreRoom]

I'll try and be brief.

DS, DSS1 and DTS live with DH and I, DSS2 lives with his mum and comes Fri after school and I drop him off Monday and his mum collects him. (all 3 children go to same school)

DSS1 has lived with us since Novemeber when his mums DP and his DD moved in. DSS1 goes to his mums every other weekend.

So far this has been fine and we are flexible - eg DSS2 will come Fri-Thurs in half term and not that weekend and DSS1 will go home that weekend so both boys with their mum.

DSS1 is due to go to his mums tomorrow but is saying he doesn't want to. We have no specific plans so it's not that he's missing something particular - he just says he doesn't want to go. I know he doesn't like his mums DP's DD, who seems OK to me, so I'm not entirely sure how much truth there is in his description of her!

DH at work atm but I have spoken to him quickly after DSS1 spoke to me and DH says it's his choice.

I think, as a mum, he should go and see her tomorrow at least and come back at the end of the day if he wants - although I really feel he should go as planned.

I really don't want to upset DSS1 and make him feel pushed out of his own home - any advice?

[EverybodyKnows]

I'm with you on this- he should go

I'm always reluctant to let children make those calls TBH- it's a minefield because, once you start, you've set a precedent, what next, not going for holidays etc ?

How old is he ?

[Eglu]

It really depends on his age whether or not he should go, but I would lean towards making him unless he came up with a very good reason not to.

[NotaDisneyMum]

Would you have called your DH at work had your DSS said that he didn't want to go to school?

What would your DH have said?

Sorry, this is a non-negotiable for me - DC's do not "choose" whether or not to have a relationship with their parents until they are adults. Just because their parents have separated doesn't change this.

A RP failing to support a NRP's relationship with their DC by allowing the DC to "opt out" of contact is something I would never be able to accept in a partner

[NoMoreRoom]

Good point disney about the school - and no!

DH got home at 6 ish and spoke to DSS1. He said he would not force him as it's his choice but that he expects him to go as that was the arrangement we made when he moved in. He asked DSS1 how he would feel if DSS2 suddenly decided he didn't want to come at weekends.

DSS1 cried at this point and said he'd be really sad and missses his brother and that's why he wants to stay at weekends when DSS2 will be there. He has said he misses his mum but his mums DP's DD makes things really difficult and he has more fun at home with us.

I then spoke to DH and said from a mums point of view I really think he should make DSS1 go - that it must have been really hard for his XW when DSS1 moved out and that so far things have been really amicable. DH and his XW have 50:50 care (court order decided), hence why DSS2 comes from school Friday, and during the day Friday we are his carers, so once DSS2 dropped off at school he becomes our responsibility until his mum collects him Monday iyswim? DSS1 currently only goes to his mums every other weekend Sat am until Sun pm and during the holidays when DSS2 is there.

So DSS1 is going tomorrow, DH will drop him off as usual and we have said nothing about the collection - we will wait and see what happens when he's at his mums and have said nothing to her.

[NoMoreRoom]

Oh sorry someone asked ages.

DS is 9
DSS1 is 9
DSS2 is 5
DTS are 9 months

[RandomMess]

How old is the dd and what are the specific things dss1 doesn't like about her?

[NoMoreRoom]

The DD is 9 too

He says she is spoilt and whingy. That her dad always gives into her. He said that everytime they go out she basically ruins the day by being miserable. I have met her a few times briefly and she doesn't come across this way to me - but then I have to be very careful not to make judgements or be seen to take sides. Plus the only times I've ever met her are when I've picked DSS1 up from his mums - so if the feelings mutual between them that may be why!

When they moved in though DSS2 moved into DSS1 room (so they had to share) so the DD could have the other room. I think he resented this in a way - although him and DS wanted to share at ours.

[theredhen]

I think we all know people who are nice enough as acquaintances but we wouldn't wasn't to live with them! My own dsc are well behaved in outside company but different to live with. How much does his mum know about this?

[NotaDisneyMum]

NoMoreRoom -it sounds like it's annoying sibling stuff rather than bullying or something more sinister, though?
Its likely to be a phase - my DD has been through periods when she finds DSS annoying and difficult, and then a few months later, DSS has matured a bit more or DD becomes more tolerant and they are as thick as thieves again

I hope your DP doesn't fall into the trap of giving your DSS the choice in this matter - would he perhaps be prepared to read the article by Karen Woodall that I've linked to in my other thread?

[chelen]

Oh this is such a hard area. There are people (I know on here some have very relevant personal experiences) who say kids should be made to go. There are others who say kids should be able to make their own choices.

I have to say I am utterly terrified of DSS saying this. He said it a couple of times when young and we just made him go as he was waaaay to young to understand the choice even.

I don't know what to do if he says it at 14 or similar. We just keep hoping he doesn't!

That sounds like such a cop out doesn't it?

My personal belief though is that generally kids should try to talk through/express their POV within the household it relates to - so if the issue is with one of the kids in the other house, he needs to talk that through in that house and get resolution. If no-one listens to him or tries to find solutions, he may become more entrenched. But I don't think he can just 'not go' without taking some (age appropriate) responsibility for trying to work things through.

[NotaDisneyMum]

I don't know what to do if he says it at 14 or similar. We just keep hoping he doesn't!

That sounds like such a cop out doesn't it?

Not a cop out, but what would you do if he said he didn't want to go to school?

I know that some parents do allow their teen DC to make that choice, as well - often resulting in significant consequences for themselves, such as fines/court action etc. But, if you would ensure that a DC went to school, using consequences and punishment if they refused or played truant, then the same thing applies to contact with their NRP as well, surely? A relationship with a parents is just as important as schooling - and once contact has ceased, it is almost impossible to re-establish it without professional intervention and support.

If there are issues that need resolving (either in school or the home) such as abuse, bullying, neglect that mean the DC does not want to go - then that is totally different and should be addressed by the parent in the appropriate manner. If a situation is significant enough for the DC to want to avoid it, then they are not equipped to deal with it themselves and parental intervention is necessary.

Being bored, feeling put upon by having to do chores, not being the centre of attention, having to put up with an annoying step/half sibling are not good reasons to cease contact, and are certainly circumstances that many children also face in their resident household (whether they live with one or both parents). The difference is, they have to tolerate it because there isn't a choice to opt out, and there shouldn't be when they have two homes, either.

[NoMoreRoom]

Thanks everyone.

DSS1 went yesterday and DH took DSS2 out for the morning as they have 'their' time. In the afternoon we all went to the pub a resturant for some dinner.

DSS1 rang his dad and said he'd had a good day with his mum/ her DP and that the DD was at her nans for the day.

No mention of coming home.

He rang an hour ago sobbing that he wanted to come home as the DD is making things really miserable, and the DP is blaming DSS1. DH has gone there to talk to his XW - with strict instructions from me to consider that DSS1 may play 50% part in this problem.

DS and DSS2 are in the garden and twins asleep atm, DSS1 due home at 5pm anyway so I am sorting roast out now (well when off MN!). I'll try and update after speaking to DH but may be chaos here later as usual but will definatly update, and beg for advice this evening.

Thanks everyone.

[purpleroses]

Sounds like the right thing to do to make him go in the circumstances. But if I were you I would encourage your DP to let his ex and her DP sort the problems out themselves - you tell them if DSS is saying he's unhappy - but encourage him to tell them directly what the problems are, rather than come crying to his dad. Your DP has very little chance of finding out the cause of the fall outs, and still less chance of being impartial about it all.

My DD (8.5) is having a really tough time getting along with DP's DS (9) at the moment - they squabble and when noone is looking she winds him up and he hits/thumps/pokes/etc her often quite hard and she comes running to us in distress. It is REALLY hard to establish who's really in the wrong. Both me and DP want to treat both kids fairly, but I find myself instinctivly siding with my DD, and she expects me to take her side (because I'm her mum) so finds it really hard when I try and treat them fairly, I don't want to let DP's DS get away with being nasty, but often am not 100% sure what has really gone on... it's really hard - they're squabbling like siblings but don't have the underlying closeness that real siblings do - and like your DSS and his step sister, they're too close in age to have any natural hierarchy. DD gets really distressed by it sometimes :(

But what I'm really saying is that's it's really hard as one of the parents involved trying to sort out these kids of tensions. If either my DD or DP's DS was phoning up their other parent who was charging over trying to sort it out, or threatening to take them away early, I think that would just antagonise the situation ten fold. I really would encourage your DP to stay out of it, and keep the contact as it has always been. Then take time to listen to DSS, give him some quality attention that he may be lacking in the new family of his mum's and relay back to her anything he tells you that gives real cause for concern.

[NoMoreRoom]

Thankyou. That's very interesting and certainly food for thought.

So anyhow as promised an update.

DH went to XW and asked if she, him and DSS1 could all sit together and talk so they took him to a local pub for a drink. They told him to tell his side and they would support him together, but that they both consider there's 2 sides to every story and wouldn't be making any decisions/ taking action until they had both.

Turns out the DD has been goading DSS1 saying he had to move out because she moved in because he is a PITA and they didn't want him there, and that DSS2 only stays half the week at that house because he's a PITA too but nicer than DSS1. And that she deserved his room, because she was better and her dad earnt more money than his mum and paid for everything - which isn't actually true.

She has the smaller of the 2 rooms as DSS 1&2 had to share when DSS1 lived there but apparently she has asked her dad if she could have the larger room now because she's there the most and older than DSS2 who lives there and her dad said he'd discuss it with the boys mum.

So seems DSS1 was telling the truth about this girl re her behaviour. But I guess there may be a root cause because this girl lives with her dad and only gets to see her mum every other Saturday, whereas the boys have 2 families they flit between - and both love it usually. Also we have been a blended family for nearly 5 years whereas her ( and her dad) have just come into it iyswim?

So XW talked to her DP and his DD tonight after DSS1 came home. The girl admitted saying it but still thinks she's right re room and said she'll not stop saying it because she believes she's right. The rest of stuff talked about I don't know what was decided as that's between XW, her DP and the 2 DC's and I've told DH to butt out and leave it that way.

I spoke to DSS1 and told him that I will always listen if something is upsetting him, that I love him and love having him living with us, and that him and his brother are always welcome. But that he has a mum and needs to talk to her about issues in her home, and that if he feels unlistened to he can talk to us but we can't dictate what she does or how she deals with it. I did say he may just have to suck some of it up.

XW rang whilst DH was putting twins down and I answered, so spoke to her a bit and told her what I'd said to DSS1 - she thanked me, admitted she finds the DD hard work. I said that I didn't expect her to tell me stuff that wasn't mine (or DH's!) business but she said her DP agreed his DD was wrong, that he knows she's being a madam and she admitted to her dad it's jealousy because the boys have 2 'mums' and she hardly has one who cares.

I am due another child in 15 weeks and we have said that before then we will look again at contact, and are looking at DSS1 having mid week contact at his mums on the weeks he doesn't do weekends. We have not mentioned this to DSS1 but feel he needs more time at his mums (and she misses him like crazy ) for him to feel he can communicate with her and see her as equal parent to DH and I. They have a 50/50 access agreement anyhow.

Think this is just a storm we'll have to weather as the blended family re blends!

[RandomMess]

I did wonder if it was all sort of "settling in stuff" it is far easier for DSS1 to opt out (get pushed out) than fight his corner and risk feeling that he is unwanted/less important than the dd.

Tough one but hopefully the ex and her dp will now have their radar switched on to how the dd is reacting to the situation and put some boundaries on her behaviour in place.

[chelen]

Not a cop out, but what would you do if he said he didn't want to go to school?

I wonder if this is one of the things behind my uncertainty around this issue - I was a relatively frequent truant, despite my Mum's best efforts and worst threats/punishments.

I think some kids achieve independence (I do not mean maturity, I was not mature when I made those choices but I was independent enough to carry them through to the nth degree, fighting all the way) before others.

I think what I worry about is running battles, if he said it once and we could nip it in the bud, then of course.

Being bored, feeling put upon by having to do chores, not being the centre of attention, having to put up with an annoying step/half sibling are not good reasons to cease contact, and are certainly circumstances that many children also face in their resident household (whether they live with one or both parents). The difference is, they have to tolerate it because there isn't a choice to opt out, and there shouldn't be when they have two homes, either. I utterly agree with this, but sometimes there is considerably more to it than this.

One of the tricks with parenting is working out when to listen and when to overrule. I just know this is such a huge issue I am not confident of being able to say 'I know this is the right course of action'. DSS occasionally expresses what I believe to be appropriate anger and frustration at times and I have no idea how that will change/manifest itself in the years to come.

Oh I hope it goes ok, that DSS and his Mum find a good way to communicate so this issue doesn't arise [hopeful emoticon]

[chelen]

NoMoreRoom sounds like you and all the adults did a good job there, all talking. Hope it all calms down and DSS1 feels happier.