Really Need Advice Please :-(

[surreyrachel]

My DH sees his two children (14 and 13) one weekend a month (due to distance - 640 mile round trip) as well as for a week at Easter, a week in the Summer and a week at Christmas. The kids are at that age where they just want to be with their friends now and dont even really want to be spending time with their mother, let alone with their father who has been constantly badmouthed and slagged off by their mother (unknown why, she finished with him 10 years ago). When DH does travel to spend the weekend with them, they barely speak to him and just spend the entire time on Facebook / mobile phone / Playstation. DH has put up with this for a couple of years now and after many "pissy fits" and silent treatment from both kids, he is at the end of his tether. He has tried to discuss things with their mother, saying that although he wants to see them, if they dont want to come then they shouldn't be forced, but she wont hear of it and insists that he has them to "give her a break" (she doesn't work and the kids spend most evenings out / at friends / at grandparents etc.). DH however, works a 60 hour week and works 2 weekends a month!! DH has tried everything to make the kids happy, but they have been so alienated that it is hard and very upsetting for us both to see. They have made it clear to us that they dont want to come and would rather be with their friends and DH has told them that although he desperately wants to see them, he doesn't want them to be there if they are unhappy and dont want to be there. He offers to take them on day trips, swimming, cinema, shops to buy them clothes and stuff, but they are just not interested. Then their mother phones complaining that she has to buy them this that and the other and why didn't DH buy it while he was with them. When he explains that he offered but they weren't interested, she doesn't believe him! On last visit DH left half hour earlier as there was no point in sitting in silence and the kids were moaning they wanted to go back home. Their mother phoned DH and gave him a right mouthful because the kids went back to her house slightly earlier and ruined her weekend off! What is DH to do? Are the kids not old enough to be listened to? If they really do not want to spend the weekend with their father, should they be forced, just because their mother wants to go out on the beer? Dont get me wrong, DH desperately wants to see his kids, but it is very upsetting for him, when he tries so hard and they are so cold towards him. Then to get abuse from their mother too, is just getting too much for him. It upsets me seeing him so upset, but I just dont know what else he can do. Sorry for the long rant, but any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

[DuelingFanjo]

he should keep making the effort to see them. Teenagers are like this. Perhaps he could have them to stay with you sometimes rather than doing all the traveling up to see them.

[surreyrachel]

Thank you DF. Yes he definately wants to keep seeing them, that has never been an issue, hence why this has been going on for over 2 years now. The 640 mile round trip is them coming to stay with us. If they stay with his family near where the kids live then it is a 320 mile round trip for DH but no travel for the kids. He has been staying with his family more recently to prevent the large amounts of travel for the kids. DH moved due to his job hence why he lives so far away from them, but at the time he had no choice as it was a good job or no job and he relies on the good job he has to pay for his children, mortgage etc. It really doesn't matter if the kids are near their home or at our home, they act exactly the same. What is happening more now is that when he has them near their home, they are starting to go out with their friends more, go to clubs etc. (understandably at that age). So out of a whole weekend, he is only seeing them for say 2 hours in the evening between them being out and going to bed. Then during that time they are not speaking to DH, so I think sometimes he wonders why he bothers making the journey, although he loves them dearly. They have told their mother they dont want to go each month and the youngest cries and screams not to go, but she physically forces them into the car. The youngest even rings her during the weekend saying she wants to come home, but their mother just says "tough you have to stay because Im out". This is so upsetting for DH and for me :-(

[surreyrachel]

I agree, it is awful, that is what is upsetting DH and myself so much. I dont feel that any kid should be forced to do something they do not want to do, but in the same breath DH does want to see them, so he is between a rock and a hard place and doesn't know what to do for the best. I do feel that at their ages they are old enough to choose what they want to do, but if they were given the choice then I know that DH would never see them :-(

[PhillipeFlop]

He can't stop seeing them though. Honestly, that would be really damaging for them.

[surreyrachel]

Oh PhillipeFlop I know that and as I have mentioned before he doesn't want to stop seeing them, he loves them so much and doesn't want to miss out on seeing them. He just feels that over the last 2 years it has got so bad and the kids are now resenting him for messing up their weekends. He used to have a good relationship with them, but that has deteriorated and it seems to be getting worse. He will carry on going to see them, that goes without saying, but it is so upsetting for him, for me seeing him upset and most importantly, for the children.

[PhillipeFlop]

The thing is that teenagers are just basically massive pains in the arse, and in the main - during this period - most parents' relationship "deteriorates". That's just the way it is, I'm afraid.

I think that their mother is entitled to a break as well and I think she is probably "forcing" them to see their father in their own best interests.

Really, I think I'm saying that your husband just needs to suck it up - if he's finding it hard, then just imagine how hard the mum is finding it, having to deal with them for the majority of the time!

[theredhen]

The issue here is that the kids want to see their friends and not either their mother or father, by the sounds of it.

I think the Mother may well be encouraging the children to see their father, because she knows that it's important that they maintain contact.

The kids don't want to go home to be with her, but she will be the one doing all the donkey work for them.

Teen kids can be very negative and insular only grunting and sitting on facebook all day - that's the nature of the beast. Some are better than others, but I wouldn't take it personally.

Could you not invite some of the DSC friends to come with them for the weekend?

I think they are testing the love of both their parents - their Mother making it clear she won't listen to their needs and then if they ignore their father, they hope they will get want they want. I don't believe that they really don't want to see their Dad. They just want to have a voice in the family set up.

[surreyrachel]

Thank you PhillipeFlop, I do appreciate your comments. There is a lot more to it than I have gone into. This has been an issue since they split up 10 years ago. The children have been constantly alienated against DH, so although it has got worse the last 2 years, the children have never wanted to go with DH from day one, so its not just a matter of they are typical teenagers, although I know that probably isn't helping.

I agree, every mother is entitled to a break, but what I haven't mentioned is that they live with their grandparents or their auntie or stay at friends houses most of the time as their mother is always out (she does like a drink or 20) and is constantly passing them from pillar to post. They are also left at home alone a lot of the time too, so although I dont want to slag their mother off, as that is not in my nature and she is their mother and loves them, she probably doesn't spend, in total, a lot more time with them than DH does. She is constantly telling the children what a bad father DH is and does not have a good word to say about him and she regularly admits to them and DH that she is only "forcing" them to go to DH so that she can go "out on the lash" (she goes out every weekend and during the week). She is often drunk around them and we have had to get solicitors involved due to her phoning DH and shouting and swearing at him in front of the children upsetting them, she was warned regarding the constant harrassment by solicitors. Police were also called to her house where she was very drunk with a male who was also on drugs and the male beat her up in front of the kids and also assaulted one of the children. There is so much more I could go into, but I really didn't want to go into all this stuff and start slagging of their mother, I just wanted advice on the current situation and what was best for the children. I at no time suggested that DH stop seeing his children, that would not be an option, I just want to know how we can make this situation easier and happier for everyone involved.

[PhillipeFlop]

Hmm. OK, I think I'm going to have to back away from this as I have no advice to give you really.

I do think that if your husband has these very real and legitimate causes for concern for his children and has not been making moves towards getting help for them, (I would want custody of my children if they were being neglected and abused in the manner you are describing) then I am not surprised that they are unwilling to want to see him. Those children are in a terrible, terrible place and I feel very very sorry for them.

[theredhen]

Sounds like the children are quite emotionally damaged and are trying very hard to gain some sort of proper love and care from their Mother which they are not getting.

[surreyrachel]

I am beginning to wish I hadn't posted on here now. I just genuinely wanted advice on what my DH or I could do to make things better for us all during visitations. I certainly didn't expect my DH to come out looking like a bad parent here!. For your information, DH and I have spent thousands of pounds on solicitors and advice trying to help his children's situation over several years. But as in so many cases, the mother always seems to get the upper hand and the benefit of the doubt. She was granted custody of them, not for the want of DH fighting for it, so I think it is totally unfair of you to judge DH and say that you are not surprised they are unwilling to see him when you have no idea exactly what he has done or our situation!. Trying to get proof of a lot of things that are going on in their house is not easy, Police were called on that instance but their mother dropped all charges against the male even though he hurt her child. Apart from that one instance, I dont remember mentioning that the children were "neglected and abused"? I just said that she didn't spend much more time with the kids than DH does in response to your comment that she "deals with them the majority of the time".

[surreyrachel]

Thank you RedHen, yes I agree, I think the children are quite emotionally damaged, a lot of which I believe has been caused (not necessarily intentionally) by the mother and the break up. I just wish I knew what we could do to help, we hate seeing the kids so upset, but there is a limit to what else we can do. The children love their mum and I know, for all her faults, that she does love them, she is just very bitter and needs to stop slagging DH off to them and let them make up their own opinions. Incidentally, she finished it with DH 10 years ago and I think she always thought he would go back to her, but he moved on with someone else (not me) quite soon afterwards and she has never moved on and I think she resents that a bit or regrets finishing with him.

[theredhen]

Rachel,

If this went to court, I'm, sure the kids wishes would be taken into account and contact would be reduced. I don't think you can really force kids of this age and this temperament to see someone they don't want to.

However, it really does sound like they are only saying this to try and get some attention from their Mum, who really doesn't want them.

I really think your DP needs to instill a feeling that he is their Dad and he will always be there for them - walking away would only damage these children even further. I know it's hard when they seem so disinterested but I really don't think this is about your DP but it's about their relationship with their Mother.

So, whilst I think you could reduce contact, I think DP needs to see the bigger picture and not take things so personally.

[theredhen]

Rachel,

My DP ex is the same. Left him for someone else and hasn't moved on and yet she is the bitter one who makes sure he/we does all the donkey work because she "needs her break".

So, I do know where you are coming from on this!

[PhillipeFlop]

Er. You need to check yourself. I haven't accused your husband of anything - I have expressed concern and sympathy for those children. If that makes you uncomfortable then I'm going to have to throw you a great fat face.

If you don't think those children are being neglected and abused then Re read your post. Would you want your children to be growing up with an alcoholic mother who hangs around with drug users who beat her up, and the children?

I'm not sure what you expect people to say? You say that you both want to continue to see the children, but that it's hard, the responses have been...Yes, teenagers are hard work, but these children need to see their father, there is no easy answer. Such is parenthood.

[surreyrachel]

Hi RedHen, thank you so much. Yes I totally agree, and as I have mentioned several times now and want to make clear once again, DH does NOT want to reduce contact, if anything he would like to see them more, but that is proving difficult as they dont want this. He is always telling the kids that he is there for them and constantly texts and rings them, although the youngest doesn't ever reply or speak to him on the phone, the eldest responds if he feels like it. I agree a lot of this could be to do with their age but do feel that a lot is to do with things that are put in their heads. Thank you for your advice, we will stick with it and at least know that DH is being the best father he can be and doing everything that he can do in his power to be there for them.

[theredhen]

My DP speaks to his kids every night. Sometimes they don't bother answering the phone, they never phone back if one child isn't available, they only text him if they want something. He usually skulks off to make the phone call because I think he is ashamed to admit how rude they are to him on the phone. Sometimes they completely ignore him and he is shouting down the phone to try and get them to listen.

As a Mum, I think their Mother should be encouraging them to be respectful to their Father (or anyone that phones), but she doesn't and I suspect, she likes the fact and actively encourages it.

I have to admire his determination and love for them, even though sometimes I am a bit when I hear the conversations.

[surreyrachel]

Can I ask PhillipeFlop, are you a stepparent too. It doesn't matter if you are not, I was just interested to see if you were speaking from experience?

I have re-read my post thanks, yes I said that their mother drinks a lot and is often drunk around them, yes the guy who beat her up was on drugs, she hardly knew him and met him off the internet and brought him into her house with her kids. No of course we do not want the kids being in that kind of environment, we only knew about that instance because when this happened the kids phoned DH and DH was the one who called the Police then got in his car and did the 3 hours journey to their house to take the kids away from the property to safety. No charges were made and the male has not been seen since. As I said before, she was granted custody of the kids, we have fought hand, tooth and nail for custody, we have no idea why she has custody, she has been done for benefit fraud 3 times and was done for drink driving whilst twice over the limit with the kids in the car (this was several years ago), so she hasn't exactly got an exemplary record. DH is an excellent father and is always there for them and always will be.

[surreyrachel]

Thanks again RedHen, I think your situation seems very similar to ours so can tell that you can relate to it. DH is exactly the same, he rings them and the eldest will speak to him if he feels like it, but often wont if he cant be bothered (typical teenager I know). The youngest wont speak to him at all and if he asks their mother to speak to her she just tells him that she doesn't want to speak to him, she doesn't try to encourage her. The kids never ring him, not even on his birthday or fathers day. They too will only ring DH if they want something (again typical teenagers). I think from certain other posts on here, I was reading too much into it and should just let things go on the way they are going. DH will keep trying to see them more and they know that he is always there for them if they do want to talk, I think that is the most important things.

[surreyrachel]

Hi Magicjamas, RedHens / your idea of having friends over is a good one, we have suggested it before but when we stay with family where children live there is no spare rooms for any other kids to stay in as the two children share a tiny bedroom as it is and I think it would be a lot to ask for kids to travel all the way to ours, however I will definately suggest it, we will try anything to help. When we have them at their families, we do offer to take them to friend's houses, parties, the park, fair etc. with their friends, so at least they dont feel they are missing out too much. LMSO at "holy teens" surely there is no such thing? :)

[surreyrachel]

LMAO even, not LMSO..............although that could mean "laugh my socks off" Lol :)

[Petal02]

Hi Surreyrachel - I've been reading your thread, and just wanted to send you some moral support. I can see that your DH is really stuck between the devil and the deep blue see, and there's no wonder you find it upsetting. I think it's important that he still tries to maintain some sort of contact with his children, even if it's a bumpy ride for the next few years. I don't have anything to add that hasn't been suggested already, but didn't want to ignore your thread, as I can really see your predicament.