Dreading SS asking to live with us..again

[WkdSM]

Am feeling a bit guilty and confused.

Background - married with 2 SS - one is 19 and is fine - has a job, his own place, the other is 16.

SS2 has always had issues - firestarting, consitent lying, stealing from a reasonably young age.

When he was 13/14 he was not getting on with his mum and StepDad. He asked to live with my DH and I

Whilst this was a big change for us (we are used to being on our own and although we had SS's to stay holidays and every weekend living together is different) - we agreed as he was so unhappy.

He moved in with us - we sorted a new school furnished bedroom etc. His mother did not even phone him for 8 months.

We started haveing issues after about 3 months and went to family counselling and then got referred to a youth mental health team as the relate councillor said his issues were too deep roooted for her to deal with.

His behaviour got worse - some of the 'highlights' were -
Stealing my underwear and wanking into it
Stealing money from a charity account we ran for a local group
Internet viewing of underage sex sites and other sites that were illegal (police had to approve computer for cleaning otherwise DH could have been arrested as he was adult male in house with access to computer)
Stealing so many things we had to put locks on our bedroom door and advise visitors not to leave bags anywhere
Police advised me that I was likely target of violence (based on relationship with mother, councelling, and sexual behaviour
Telling so many lies about everything we could not trust a word he said.

I could go on but you het the idea - our lives were hell.

As a family we agreed he should go to boarding school - he choose the school after long and frank discussions with the head master and child psychologists on staff.

He has now finished his GCSE's at boarding school and wanted to go back and live with his mother to do A levels. She agreed and he has been there since June.

However, all does not seem well from posts on Facebook and texts to my DH.

I am terrified that he will ask to move back with us or she will throw him out. Neither DH or I want him to live with us. He is so destructive.

I know some people will say 'he is only a child' - but his behaviour goes beyond the bounds of anything you would usually expect to deal with.

Would you take him back - honestly?

[theredhen]

The short answer is no, I would not. At 16 he is old enough in the eyes of the law to leave home if need be.

I presume social services have been involved? I think you will find that they may have a responsibility to house him if either you or their Mum refuses to do so.

If he was your child by birth, based on what you have said above, I would still say the same thing.

[sallyseton]

Normally Inwould advocate tolerence.

In this case, I'm afraid I would not. How deeply upsetting and traumatic for you.

However, I do think your dh has a duty of care towards his son. Could he rent a 2- bedroomed place temporarily for him and ds if it came to it?

[Pioneer]

I'm afraid in those circumstances I would feel it would be a threat to me - emotionally and physically.

I think at 16 I would no longer view him as a child - I left home myself at 17 to go to university and I managed perfectly well to cope on my own.

Completely agree with theredhen - it wouldn't matter if he were your own child, his behaviour is beyond the normal realms of "teenagerism" (yes I know that's not a word!)

[2rebecca]

Agree with mjinhiding. At 16 he'd be an adult here in Scotland so I'd have meeting with the 3 of you discussing house rules etc. Zero tolerance to violence or aggressive behaviour or stealing.
2 years is alot of time at that age and he may have matured alot.
If he'd just been with you 6 months ago I'd say no.

[WkdSM]

Thanks for your understanding ladies.

He won't be accepted back in old school because he was suspended for a week just before GCSE's and their 6th form is full.

We did try and get Social Services involved but they were less than useless - they took the view that as he was not in any physical danger they would not house him or help us at all. The only thing they could suggest was that I move out from my home and live in a bedsit until he was 18. How DH and I were to pay for this, maintain a relationship, and how he was going to manage the house on his own (he worked long hours in London at that point and sometimes had to work away) was not thought relevant.

He has not changed as far as we can see - and if we did agree to take him back we would then be responsible for his housing until he was 18. We can refuse to house him but once he is in that is it.

His mother has her own issues - she has remarried but had an 18 mth affair that came to light last year and she and her husband split up for a bit. They are back together now but obviously that has put pressure on her family relationships.

I think I feel better knowing that others can see the issue. I can only hope that things settle down with his mum and that he manages to maintain a relationship with her for a couple of years.

I know when we married I took on the SS's as well as DH but none of us expected this.

[2rebecca]

Is boarding school (same or different) for A levels an option? You said he wanted to come back to be with his mum. If he decides not to be with his mum then why not boarding school?
From his behaviour when he was with you it doesn't sound as though he enjoyed living with you much as he made no effort to make it work.

[Petal02]

What a dreadful situation ? I certainly wouldn?t want him in the house, if I were in your position.

WKDSM, you said in your first post that your husband shares you views (thank GOD). If you did let him come back for a trial period, it?s going to be very difficult to move him out if things don?t work out. And even if he did come back for a trial period, it only takes one bad outburst and you could be badly injured (or worse).

I don?t mean to sound offensive (nor to I have prejudices about mental health) but the boy sounds like he?s quite ill, and should possibly be in some sort of sheltered accommodation? To put it bluntly, I don?t think anyone should be expected to live with threats of violence, even if they are brought about by psychiatric illness.

[2rebecca]

I disagree and know lots of parents who had problems with violence and minor delinquant behaviour in teenage boys. In general things improved as the boy matured and hormones calmed down.
If you can afford boarding school then that seems a good option if he only came back to see his mum and has now changed his mind.
Seeing a psychologist re his antisocial behaviour will only work if he thinks there is a problem and is willing to put in alot of work to change things. How did he get on at boarding school?

[sallyseton]

I'm sorry but this- "Stealing my underwear and wanking into it" is way outside the realm of normal teenage behaviour. If you had reported that to the police he could have gone to prison.

He makes you feel unsafe in your own home. If there's no way you and your husband can live separately for a while (I know this would be a great sacrifice) then it's a no.

I would however set aside a budget for his therapy- could you pay for a session a week for him, and a session a week for you, dh and him to resolve your issues? Maybe start having him round for a Sunday lunch or to watch a film one evening a week- take it slow, and maybe in a few years he will have regained your trust.

[2rebecca]

Depends how interesting the underwear is.
I don't regard it as that weird. Different if the OP was his mum, but he hasn't grown up with her and it may have been the first time he'd came across exciting underwear, and just pinched a bit of lacy stuff from washing line and hoped he wouldn't get caught.
I find that far less concerning than the stealing, although I used to shoplift as a teenager I wouldn't steal from family.
We have had this as a problem within the extended family though. Plus my sister now admits she used to nick money from my purse.
We are all now fairly well adjusted adults.
He needs to clearly know this isn't acceptable behaviour though and I'd be reluctant to have him stay if there isn't an easy get out for 2 years if he's a pain.

[Petal02]

God help us all if I ever found my stepson w*nking into my underwear. I know that teenage boys will always masturbate, but there's something quite sinister and disturbing about your stepson's actions. It would make me feel quite violated.

[Pioneer]

I agree that I think he needs some psychological help.

Did you get to the bottom of why he was stealing? I mean, was it to fund something or for attention?

[WkdSM]

Once again - thank you are for being so understanding.

Boarding school - the one he was at (a state school with boarding house attached) is a no go as they are full and would have to take into account his behaviour when he was suspended (they would not chuck him out when he was just about to take exams)

Stealing - he has stolen since he was quite small - from family, from friends. He just seems to think he is 'entitled' to take whatever he wants. Whetehr it is money, games for a console he does not own, jewellery, it does not seem to matter.

Psychologist - the Relate councellor we saw confirmed his issues were too deep rooted and he needed specialist help. I think this was after 5 months of telling her how his mother was to blame for everything and he hated her, to the next week (after he had seen mum for first time in 9 months) saying she was his best friend in the world and always had been. He saw Youth Mental Health Team and there were 2 child psycholigists on staff at his school.

Problem with councelling is that he just lies all the time. And boy is he convincing. He also will not admit to there now being a problem. He seems to now believe that we (DH and I) have made all this up and that he never stole / lied / did anything wrong. He lies so well I think he convinces himself. And to the outside world he is charming.

One of my friends said to me he reminded her of those serial killers you read about - when they are caught all the neighbours go on about how lovely they were and always but their bins out on the right day.

Put the record straight on the knickers - cotton M and S. I think he just used them when he was watching the porn (we had to take all cables out of computers when we left the house) - I don't think it was specifically aimed at me.

Yes, I felt violated and disgusted (I actually threw up when I saw one of the websites he had loked at and been repeatedly revisiting). Mum does not help as she tends to play things down when it happens with us - DH asked her how she would feel if some of the pictures / porn were of her daughter (8/9 at the time) - she just said 'well they are not so it's OK'

He starts college this week so we are hoping he settles down. Fingers legs and eyes all crossed.

[Pioneer]

"I think this was after 5 months of telling her how his mother was to blame for everything and he hated her, to the next week (after he had seen mum for first time in 9 months) saying she was his best friend in the world and always had been"

I'm not sure if this is common or not, but my DSD comes out with stuff like this all the time. I find it very difficult to get close to her as I never know where her true feelings lie. She is also tells a lot of lies and then denies it until she is blue in the face, getting all angry because she's been "caught out", but still continuing to lie. She has also commented several times on wishing that certain people were dead or that she could kill them. She's only 10 as well .

[WkdSM]

Sorry

Forgot to say he lives a 6 hour round trip away from us and so evening visits etc would not work.

Also, he has decided that I am the root cause of all his problems and last time he came to stay we had to ask my mother to come and stay as well so that he could not make things up about what I had said or done. He objected to this quite violently and DH had to tell him it was our home and that we were entitled to ask whoever we wanted to stay. My mother has never been anything but really nice to him.

I have accepted that I will not be able to have a real relationship with him (somewhat of a relief) as the Youth Mental Health Team lady said that for my own emotional well being I needed to just do what I had to for him (physically and organisationally) but try not to get emotionally involved as every time we forgave him and tried to start again he would do something progressively worse. She said there are only so many times you can take that kind of emotional betrayal in any relationship.

At the moment, he can only maintain a relationship wth DH (by text, phone, emails etc) if he feels he can blame everything on me. He has to see himself as the victim (as he did with his mother when he came to live with us and before) to enable him to justify his behaviour.

The silver lining is I love DH, he loves me - and SS2 will grow up.

[2rebecca]

If he has decided you are the root of all his problems then he won't be staying with you will he? Your husband would be mad to even contemplate it. It sounds as though unfortunately he has a sociopathic personality disorder.

[nomedoit]

Don't take him back, it will end in tears or worse. Reading this whole thread it sounds as though he has severe problems and will continue to need specialist help.

[WkdSM]

DH suggested we go out last night for a meal (bless) so we had time to chat through quite a few things.
We talked about SS and he before I said anything he said that he was going to call SS and make it clear to him that whatever happened he could not move back with us. 'He has burnt his bridges' I thought this might just start up a row, but DH said it would make things easier on him when he gets the phone call from SS saying mum has chucked him out again. Who knows when but high probability.

DH thinks SS will react with a 'so what' now, but when the poo hits the fan DH can say to him - well I told you that you were not coming back here so what are you going to do?

DH loves SS2 but I don't think he actually likes him very much at the moment.