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NOW CLOSED: Post-natal pelvic floor and bladder problems - the last great taboo? Talk and you could win £100 voucher

(160 Posts)
AnnMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 17-Jul-12 09:34:15

There is a Pelvic Floor Toner that is on GP prescription but it is not being offered to new mothers as a matter of course - how would you sell it? How would you get it 'out there'? Share your ideas and you could win a £100 High Street voucher.

We've been asked by the team behind the PelvicToner to find out what Mums think about their product and to ask how they would market it if they were in charge of the product.

The team say "The PelvicToner is the only clinically-proven pelvic floor exercise device that is available on GP prescription and therefore free of charge to any women holding a Maternity Exemption Certificate. The incidence of Urinary Stress Incontinence (USI) in women outweighs practically all other health conditions (put together) yet the reaction of women at large, lobby groups and many in the medical profession, is just to accept it as a tribulation to bear - something to get used to or one that can't be resolved. This is just not true, and over 80% of cases can be quickly and simply cured with an effective exercise programme."

"The scale of the problem is enormous. There are approximately 15,000 births each week and clinical estimates are that 5,000 of these mothers each week will go on to develop USI. The problem typically starts with childbirth but just gets worst after the menopause. Since January 2011 GPs have been able to prescribe the PelvicToner which in clinical trials proved to be at least as effective as supervised pelvic floor training with a physiotherapist, but to offer significant advantages in that it 'enabled the confident identification of the correct muscles and provided effective exercise using a mild resistance'. It was also recognised that the PelvicToner improved compliance with the exercise programme not least because the patient noted significant improvements within a matter of days, unlike the physiotherapy programme where improvement was not expected within three months."

So - the team behind the product know it's good (they have sold over 100,000) and have loads of evidence to prove it can help with this widespread condition, but face issues from GP's not prescribing it and women not knowing it is either available or effective.

As a way of getting folks talking about this topic we wanted to ask Mumsnetters - if you were in charge of marketing this product what would you do?

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
~ What information would you like to know about the product?
~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

Any other comments on this issue welcome - PelvicToner very much want to get folks talking about this issue.

Everyone who adds their thoughts to this thread will be entered into a prize draw where one winner will get £100 in High Street vouchers.

thanks
MNHQ

CMOTDibbler Tue 17-Jul-12 09:40:38

I guess the problem is that women just aren't given a lot (any ?) medical followup after birth, so no one asks them about urine leakage. Certainly in my experience the 6 week check did not check me at all, and no one asks you after that if you are ok. And women often expect to have a weak pelvic floor after birth and think not much can be done for them.

ithastobeNAICEham Tue 17-Jul-12 10:16:54

Having had this issue after my first pregnancy and having some of the same issues during this pregnancy (I'm 33 weeks), I'd be very interested to see what this prooduct could do!

I have been to the doctors regarding this issue and been fobbed off by them, I went as I thought there might be help available, if there was a discount to buy this product on here, I'd get it!!

I think it could be advertised in mother and baby magazines, in the press. There are adverts on tv to advertise such issues now, I think an actual product like this would be received well and encourage people to seek help. If people know we could get help then we could do more to get this subject less taboo!

I'm not sure how much it would cost but I wouldn't pay more than £20 for it, I'd think it encourage more people to buy if it was cheaper. Plus, if its cheap then the NHS are going to be more inclined to prescribe the product.

Tbh, I don't know how to get GP's to prescribe this product.

I'd like to see how this progresses and see what comes from this.

BedHog Tue 17-Jul-12 10:20:43

I can see this might be a good starting point for people not used to doing pelvic floor exercises, or for women already suffering USI, to regain pelvic floor tone.

However, as I understand it, pelvic floor exercises are most effective if done in short sessions several times a day. I do mine when driving, watching telly, cooking dinner, lying in bed etc. It would be difficult to find the time or inclination to slink off to the bathroom on my own, strip from the waist down and do whatever I had to do with this implement and its accompanying lubricant gel <boak>.

I'm also unsure if it benefits the whole pelvic floor. It looks as if it concentrates solely on the vaginal area while ignoring the urethral and anal parts of the pelvic floor muscles.

Having said that, anything that encourages women to exercise their pelvic floors and realise the importance of them is a good thing. My mother-in-law's friends used to laugh at her for religiously doing her PF exercises every day - now she's the only one who doesn't need tena lady!!

firawla Tue 17-Jul-12 10:27:33

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

yeah why not

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

pelvic floor toning things is something i always mean to buy but i dont get round to it. i havent suffered any problems in this area so far but i have had 3 children close together, one big baby, one forceps delivery, mums had a prolapse and mil keeps telling me dont forget to do pelvic floor exercise as she also has problems after 3 kids, but i still just forget to get round to it!!

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

web advertising would be good, that way one day when u see it might actually click and get round to buying

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

that it helps for long term, so you wont get problems in future

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

i have no idea but i would rather pay under 50 quid and if its over 100 dont think i would ever get it, as its too expensive

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

how does it actually works?

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

i would talk to people im close to, maybe not random mums who i dont know too well! some people have talked to me about it.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

im not too embarrased to go to gp. but i dont think they will prescribe it if i dont have problems currently or if they would prescribe it as a preventive type thing then i would go and get it

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

im not sure

Gillianfl Tue 17-Jul-12 10:28:35

Why would you not pay more than £20 for something that could cure your dribbles for ever. You would spend more than that every month on Tena pads! Anyway, it's pretty academic because if you are a new mother with a Maternity Exemption Certificate it's free of charge anyway.

And from my experience it has a pretty positive impact in the babymaking department as well, so whilst that may not be the first thing on your mind at the moment, it should be something to look forward to!!

A big part of the problem is that mums and women at large have been conditioned not to expect any real help and to suffer in silence. That is rubbish. A comprehensive cure is just a couple of weeks away and it just involves 5 minutes of effort a day. A small price to pay and, as they say, the benefits are priceless.wink

Gillianfl Tue 17-Jul-12 10:35:47

Just a note to BedHog. A couple of factual issues.

The way the pelvic floor is constructed means that exercising the vaginal muscles strengthens the whole pelvic floor. And doing short sessions several times a day is definitely admirable but doing anything while you are driving or watching tv etc is a complete waste of time for the simple reason that the only way to really strengthen your muscles is to use a resistance device such as the PelvicToner.

Squeezing thin air is of no benefit. Certainly no other exercise you do in the gym or anywhere else delivers benefit without effort. Arnold Kegel who is the man behind Kegel exercises was absolutely adamant that resistance was key.

The PelvicToner follows his principles which is why it cures the problem in a couple of weeks and why it is the only pelvic floor toner on GP prescription - even if your GP won't give it to you!

notcitrus Tue 17-Jul-12 11:10:37

I've had SPD in both my pregnancies, which meant I was referred to obstetric physiotherapists both antenatally and postnatally. Both groups repeatedly mentioned the importance of pelvic floor exercises, and in particular the postnatal ones explained that if you have problems with stress or urge incontinence, to come back to them as they can help (firstly with exercises, then with devices like described here, and if necessary surgery), and not to suffer in silence.

So given that squeezing muscles is generally sufficient for most women, I think the problem is women not being told either when pregnant or shortly after that help is available, not a widget that may be necessary for some women. My hospital gave me a leaflet about postnatal exercises and incontinence but as it was badly photocopied and looked very boring I imagine most women would have thrown it away among all the Bounty and other bumf you get on leaving hospital.

If women aren't aware there is help, they aren't going to go to the GP or phone the hospital physios in the first place - that's what needs fixing.

BedHog Tue 17-Jul-12 11:14:16

You're not squeezing thin air (unless you've got an exceptionally flappy fanjo grin), you're flexing and relaxing muscles. So saying it is of no benefit is like saying that running won't tone up your legs unless you have weights strapped to your ankles, or there's no point to doing sit ups unless someone is pushing against your shoulders.

brendaf Tue 17-Jul-12 11:19:24

my doc certainly didn't offer much help and I was desperate for help. Eventually I was referred to physio and that didn't help much

A friend recommended this pelvic toner and it was fantastic - improvement in no time.

I showed it my doc and she pleaded ignorance but I think she is now offering to others

turkeyboots Tue 17-Jul-12 11:20:51

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

Why not?

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

Only if I was experiencing severe problems, as they tend not to be useful for minor complaints.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

Parenting and female orinated magazines, all the usual places

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

How well it works, what type of long term issues it might helps avoid.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

Its £29.99, which iseems a bit steep. £15 ish would make me inclided to have a go.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

Size, your website makes it look HUGE. How to fit its use into daily life.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

No really, but not taboo by any means.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

Buy online, definatly not through toddler groups!!

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

No idea, but my friends who have given birth abroad were all issued with one after birth.

TheLaineyWayIsEssex Tue 17-Jul-12 11:32:20

I think more in general needs to be done to raise awareness of the issue of post natal pelvic floor and bladder problems. It needs to be something that is spoken about with women - during their pregnancy. I got a leaflet that told me to do pevlic floor exercises - but not how to do them, or what issues could arise if I didn't.
Having had a long labour and forceps delivery - I took a long time to recover, and my pelvic floor is certainly not the same as it was.
I think products such as this toner - sounds fabulous but should be in used in conjunction with better post natal care.
We should take a leave out of France's book. Women there are routinely prescribe (not offered) multiple sessional with a gynae physio for pernineal and pelvic floor strengthening. This is standard practice there, and I can bet that far few women have ongoing problems with incontinence, pain etc as they do here.

TheLaineyWayIsEssex Tue 17-Jul-12 11:34:56

Just to add, I wish I had known about this product as when trying to do pelvic floor exercises a few weeks post birth, I couldn't even isolate my muscles as they had been destroyed by the victorian torture instruments. I feel something like this would have really helped.
Can imagine it being advertised in the pregnancy magazines given in the bounty packs - posters at the ante-natal clinic, and generally just more visible.

I have a rubbish pelvic floor. I bought an electronic toner just before Christmas and try to use it daily. However I still leak when exercising even with what i consider an empty bladder. It is quite depressing. I do think it has helped a bit though. I tried the cones first but couldn't hold them in at all didn't get on with them very well.

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
yes

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
I hate going to the doctor, I find them patronising, so no probably not, I would rather just buy it

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
magazines aimed at women

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
a timescale for using it after which you should notice a difference

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
I spent £50 on my current one so £29.99 looks good to me!

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
how often to use it, how to tell if you are using it correctly, what to do if you feel it is not doing any good

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
I would talk about it with other mums, but I am an unsociable old cow so don't go out much

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
no, although buying from a chemist, pharmacist would be good, without having to talk to anyone, online would be best

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
prove that it is effective by asking for feedback from users

TheTempest Tue 17-Jul-12 11:58:43

We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

- I think it would be a good thing, and could be used to raise awareness of the issue too.
~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

I would buy it, I don't think I would go to the GP for it as I don't go to the GP for much. My GP is very insensitive, and I don't think he'd be too impressed if I went to see it for that.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

Back of toilet doors, with those bladder irritation adverts.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

That it's not normal after having a baby and can be resolved.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

probably in the £15-25 mark.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

Whether it hurts, what it's made of, that it's a common issue.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

I have definitely talked about it with people before, mostly people I know well though.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

None of the above! A pharmacy would be better that a random woman at toddler group amongst tea, biscuits and babies!!

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

More incentives for them? A rep system type thing like the big companies?

TerracottaPie Tue 17-Jul-12 12:01:26

I think a product like this has the potential to just be lumped in with the 'It's a nice idea, but I haven't got the time, haven't got the money and isn't a bit of stress incontinence something everyone has. It's not like I want to go trampolining or anything.' thoughts that many women have.

Women are busy with newborns. Simple fact. They're not really thinking about themselves much at this point. So ante and postnatally is when it needs to be pushed that stress incontinence is not just something to put up with indefinitely after the birth. Everyone knows they are supposed to do their pelvic floor exercises but it's almost like you switch off when they are mentioned.

I don't see talking about bladder problems as anything to be embarrassed about. I have had physio for other gynae problems for a couple of years now for a birth related problem and don't see why I shouldn't talk about it. Maybe GPs should be talking about it all more. Like at the postnatal check. Rather than it be on the woman to bring it up first. Cut out the embarrassement factor that some women might have.

And re getting GPs to prescribe it. That's for the company to push with their reps isn't it?

Oh and no, I wouldn't buy it. If it's something available on prescription then that is where I would obtain it. I don't see why I should have to pay for it. I don't pay my physio for the work done on pelvic floor thus far.

RedSquizzle Tue 17-Jul-12 12:24:56

I think focussing on women who have a Maternity Exemption Cert if a bit of a red herring in a way - a lot of women assume that their bodies will take a long time to recover after birth, and wouldn't even consider it a problem until well after a year after birth, long after your Mat Exemption has run out.

Great to market it to new mums, but there are plenty of women whose babies/toddlers are over 1yo who are finally realising that their pelvic floors are shot!

- if you were in charge of marketing this product what would you do? Run a magazine campaign such as the Clinique giveaways - first howevermany to reply get a free/discounted product, or a short run of free ones with mags, word of mouth would be the best advert afterwards
~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product? Absolutely
~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why? Only if I was suffering severely with it, otherwise id just put up with it
~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo? Very occasionally, not a common topic tho
~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc? If it wasn't thru GP I'd buy direct online, or thru Amazon etc, def not thru a toddler group etc!
~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner? By pointing out what a common and unmentioned problem it is - I think GPs forget its an issue as women don't talk about it freely enough. Get the stats on the packaging, to remind us all how common it is.

bagelmonkey Tue 17-Jul-12 12:32:20

I'd be embarrassed to talk to my GP, mostly because I'd feel my problem wasn't serious enough and that I'd be most likely to get a negative response because it's too expensive, not because incontinence is embarrassing. I think that although it's available on prescription it still means the GP will be aware of joe much it vista and of their own budget. I wouldn't make an appointment to discuss incontinence unless I thought it was very bad, because I'd expect to just be told to do pelvic floor exercises, which are free.
I think there should be routine follow up of mothers by GPs to discuss issues like this that you wouldn't have time to notice by the 6-8 week check, because that may be the only time you see a doctor for years.

I'd be more likely to try to buy it online than to buy it of anyone in person.

CakesnKids Tue 17-Jul-12 12:48:15

Well in my case despite being only 24, and both gap and the physio I saw knowing about my pelvic floor issues I have kept being told just do the exercises, that's all you need.
I've been just doing the exercises for 5 months now since the birth of dd2 (did them during PG and after dd1 too) and am still having issues sad

Where can I get this from? Do I need to see my gap or can I just buy it?

Intermediate of what your asking, I think better gap training and knowledge post dc

<goes off to click links>

strandednomore Tue 17-Jul-12 13:25:30

Pelvic floor exercises - and what's available to help - could be discussed in antenatal classes.
Now if only there were the funds for every woman to get free, decent antental classes....

We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

Sure, we like discounts

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

I wouldn't because I wouldn't know about the product and would expect to be told to wait/exercise/lose weight/fobbed off

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
Those gawdawful pregnancy magazines, online generally, Surestart groups etc

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
Telling me a problem could be fixed for a reasonable cost = sold

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

I'd not buy it for over £50 without a serious recommendation

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

If it worked, how it worked, sizes (?), cold it be bought discreetly and over the counter or online.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

In a jokey sort of way or on MN - sure. As a real problem - no, nobody really admits to it. We all make jokes about weeing on trampolines but nothing more.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

No, you'd want someone who doesn't gossip so NOT a toddler group person!

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

I guess cost? Or don't prescribe, make them heavily discounted in the pharmacies usually attached to GPs, (boots and lloyds here) - I often see tens machines and the like promoted this way.

Puddlet Tue 17-Jul-12 14:45:52

Just a comment on the marketing/ branding - the image on your website of a super toned torso being approached by a small torpedo heading for the navel area is unlikely to be one that appeals to many new mums. Had you thought of using an image of a mum holding a baby? Or perhaps taking inspiration from the Dove "real women" campaign with a "real mums" campaign? Perhaps images of mums at a buggyfit class so that you have the fitness element in there but in a more accessible way?
To me the super toned look is so unachievable that I would put your product in the same category as getting back to the weight I was at 21 - unachievable and therefore not worth trying.
It sounds as if you're trying to develop new distribution channels - I would have thought that the various buggyfit/ baby yoga franchises would be good potential partners for you. The product might work better in a context where women are focussing on getting fit than at a toddler group (although it might liven the conversation up a bit!).

YoulllaughAboutItOneDay Tue 17-Jul-12 14:47:32

I have had minor issues since the birth of DD1 three years ago. I have never been to the GP. I don't feel that there is any real interest in resolving 'minor' issues and would expect it to take many appointments to get any sort of serious resolution. I tried talking to the midwives during my second pregnancy and was pretty much dismissed.

I would want to know whether the product helped with minor problems and stress incontinence - as in leaking if I have to unexpectedly sprint after my toddler with a full bladder, having to tense when sneezing. It really is the final bit of improvement I need, not going from dreadful to better. Also how long you need to use it for each day - it doesn't look like you would do it in the bus queue!

I would want to buy online. Whilst I have spoken to a couple of friends who have similar issues, or participated in jokes about trampolining, no way would I want to buy it at a toddler group!

Cost looks ok to me. My maternity certificate has long run out and I'd pay the difference between prescription and £30 just for the privilege of not dragging two toddlers to the GP and the chemist!

3duracellbunnies Tue 17-Jul-12 14:53:31

I might go to the GP if it was a continuing problem, but more likely to buy something on internet. Probably wouldn't pay more than 40 quid. It is talked about, but usually as a joke, and associated with discussions of trampolines and bouncy castles (good advert material there). I wouldn't buy it through a friend/ toddler group, maybe at sure start centre/ 2yr check. I guess the GPs have other financial issues. I suppose if it reduces chance of prolapse that might be a marketting strategy for long term cost effectiveness.

nickelbarapasaurus Tue 17-Jul-12 15:03:15

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
I'd like to see my GP prescribe it, or at the very least let us know that it's available if we have problems with sorting out our Pelvic Floors.
~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
I don't know - the
~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
Women and childbirth magazines, Bounty pack, WI Life.
~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
I want to know if it actually works - it's the things like very minor control - the one where you don't want to get to the stage where yo uneed a wee, and does it work for the back end too?
~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
IRL - most of my friends in their 40s and 50s say that their PF has never returned to normal
~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
I'd talk to the GP if I knew it was available on prescription.
~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
dunno.
make them see that the Pelvic Floor problem is a real problem, and that it's not just as simple as a few squeezes here every day.

Let's see - my pelvic floor used to be made of steel - it was phenomenal!
After 1 DD (and an episiotomy), I can barely hold a wee or poo in.
this is the worst thing - I am getting better at holding the wee, but I don't get very long between that urge to wee and the need to go NOW
But when I need to poo, it's not even just that I have to go immediately, but it's that I can't push it all out - meaning that I end up with having to go again within an hour to finish it off.
But it doesn't matter how long I sit here and squeeze my muscles, it's been 7 months and I don't think they've improved much at all.
I can't tell how much I'm squeezing, or whether I'm squeezing the right muscles.
I also think the muscles are letting go by themselves (like I squeeze and try to count to 15, but by the time I've gone past 3 they're loose again)
What's worse, is that as I'm BFing, when I feed, I can't squeeze because it all gets swollen down there and I can't feel anything at all. That's the only time I'm sitting still long enough actually to do the exercises.

nickelbarapasaurus Tue 17-Jul-12 15:03:36

I would probably not pay more than £25-£30 for one.

nickelbarapasaurus Tue 17-Jul-12 15:05:24

taking on from even CMOT's first post - at my 6 week check, I was asked if I was doing my PFEs, of course I was. I answered yes, that's it. They didn't ask me what I was doing specifically, they didn't ask me how they were going, they didn't give me a leaflet showing me how to do them properly (so I still don't know), but most importantly, they didn't tell me that if I was worried about the progress within a certain period of time, that I could go back and discuss it.

Kveta Tue 17-Jul-12 15:17:22

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
yes - or how about a MN product test?

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
I will be asking my GP about it at my 6 week check next week - I would certainly start with my GP or HV (HV said at 2 week postnatal check that I should go to her if I still have issues after a few months)

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
through Health Visitors

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
the website you link to in the OP was pretty persuasive to me!!

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
£30

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
size, does it have a storage pod or something? can totally see my toddler getting hold of it...

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
with close friends, yes - not random toddler group mums

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
oh christ, not through a friend, how excruciating would that conversation be? "I am literally pissing myself laughing friend!" "oh well why not buy this plastic rocket to stick in your bits to stem the flow of piddle?" no thanks. would rather go to HCP or buy online

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
no idea, how do drug companies get their products promoted?

I think I lost my pelvic floor when I had my son. I still have issues now he's 5 sad

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
Discounts are always good.

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
If I had a female GP, then maybe, but my own GP (a man) would just tell me to lose weight, or do pelvic floor exercises, which I do religiously.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
Notice boards in GP's surgeries, with an 'ask your GP' sign.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
If it was available to me on prescription and was guaranteed to work if you used it properly.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
It says on your lovely link £29.99 If I couldn't get it on prescription (i.e. prescription charge only) then I wouldn't bother.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
How to use it, prices, different sizes (or even colours - I would buy something just because it was blue!)

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
I've never discussed this with anyone before blush

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
Not too embarrassed, just I know he would say 'lose weight, do exercises' but I would be tempted if they were available at the contact groups above.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
No idea. Turn them all into post-baby women? Then they'd understand. Not wanting to pigeon-hole male GP's but that's just my personal opinion.

mamij Tue 17-Jul-12 16:10:53

I had urine retention post natal with both pregnancies, and had a catheter and self catheter both times. I did pelvic floor exercise pre and post natal. I certainly would have been prepared to try something that would have helped me!

It's a bit of a taboo subject and I think most women are afraid to talk about it. Having 'real life' stories in parenting magazines, incorporating it into antenatal classes (was not mentioned in NHS or NCT classes I attended), might help.

It shouldn't been seen as a 'problem' but something that just may happen post natal.

Pinot Tue 17-Jul-12 16:27:20

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

Of course!

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

No - its a part of being a Mum, unless its v extreme.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

Back pages of womens magazines?

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

That it is effective - not a gadget. Mooncup would be an example.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

£19.99

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

The obvious - size, how you use it and independent reviews.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

Jokes not formal chat!

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

Noooooooo! Just online!

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

It's a waste of precious NHS funds. Private purchase only.

PostBellumBugsy Tue 17-Jul-12 16:30:07

We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product? Yes - goes without saying really!

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why? It is always worth going to the GP. "They get bad press, but they are medically qualified.*

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised? Women's magazines & other websites that women regularly use.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you? A message that conveys how useful and effective the product will be.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy? I don't know - very hard to answer without knowing how much it costs to make.

~ What information would you like to know about the product? How it works, how long it takes for the effects to be felt, any side effects

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo? Is anything taboo these days?

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc? No, I'm not embarrassed to talk to my GP - that is bonkers. There isn't a gruesome everyday occurrance they haven't heard.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner? Not sure who they is? The manufacturer could probably persuade GPs by getting the BMJ & BMC on board. Lots of good press in medical journals, plenty of PR events for local Primary Healthcare Trusts, get some doctors on board & do speaking events. It isn't rocket science - just take a look at what drug reps do!

JosephineJones Tue 17-Jul-12 16:35:50

Is there robust evidence that using this product is more effective than doing pelvic floor exercises as recommended by midwives and GPs?

If so, can we please have a link to the study/studies in question? If not, should Mumsnet really be promoting this and assisting with its marketing?

WowOoo Tue 17-Jul-12 16:43:03

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

Yes

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

I'd go to GP. If it were cheap enough, I'd buy it.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

Parenting magazines, NCT website, newspapers.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

What the benefits would be.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

Around £20

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

How best to use it for maximum effect.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

Fine with close friends and family. I wouldn't want to with work colleagues or school gate aquaintances.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

Wouldn't be embarrassed to talk to GP as long as it was one of my favourite ones. Toddler group or postnatal group would be ideal.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

Demand has to come from women themselves so if there are many women who have this problem, they should ask.

AnnMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 17-Jul-12 17:22:26

Thanks for the comments so far guys - PelvicToner folks are really interested in your views and comments.

They say "The page about the clinical trials is www.pelvictoner.co.uk/biomed.htm and from there there are links to the actual published papers"

Indith Tue 17-Jul-12 17:23:27

Well I have recently been to the GP to be checked out as I felt like I had just given birth and was battling the first post natal poo the other week after going running. Pelvic floor is weak but not a disaster and I just have to do my exercises lots and lots and lots. I asked about the gadgets and this particular GP didn't think there was much point to them and I suppose she is right, I would never find the time to go and insert a gadget several times a day but I can do several reps of exercises. I am also doing targeted post natal exercises for the abdomen which involves correcting posture and all of that also helps to tighten up the area.

I believe that product is around £27? I had a look at stuff on Amazon a fw weeks ago.

I think it is a bit taboo. However, like most things if you take a deep breath and start the conversation everyone joins in. MN is good for things like that but I have talked about it with friends in RL too.

I think half the problem is that the 6-8 week check is supposed to be for mums and babies but just ends up being for babies, nobody checks you, nobody checks your tummy for a separation, nobody asks about leaks, nobody asks if you have trouble with bowl movements. Since my dc2 was born I ahve had to push outwards on my perineum for poos as they push into the vaginal wall. This is accepted as ok and frankly it shouldn't be. I just hope that now I'm done having children if I concentrate on my pelvic floor it will improve.

I'm not sure about a MN discount, I don't think MN should be seen to endorse one product when for most women doing their exercises regularly is all that is needed.

ComplexityAndFecundityOfDreams Tue 17-Jul-12 17:25:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zzzzz Tue 17-Jul-12 17:28:11

Do a freeby on the back of newborn nappies, or collect 4 vouchers type deal. Those nappy packets sit on your counter and you use them 8 or so times a day, at some point what's written on them will penetrate the baby blur.

TheSmallPrint Tue 17-Jul-12 17:35:35

I think this is a major problem and really does need addressing. I had a third degree tear with my DS and was 'lucky' enough to be referred to physio for my pelvic floor issues (and also separated stomach muscles). Sadly it was about two sessions.

Saying that, I was quite traumatised by that birth experience and the thought of someone telling me to stick a toner up my vagina to help would have made me run a mile - it took me two years to get the courage up to go for a smear (it was due a couple of months after the birth) and I was tearful even then.

nextphase Tue 17-Jul-12 18:04:01

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
Yes, why not?

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
How "leaky" do you need to be before it is classed as medical rather than an irritation? Probably not go through the GP, but have considered buying on line.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
Bounty packs? Maternity pad packets? Like the back of toilet door suggestion above.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
Not sure, but the picture with the open springs visible are pretty scary to think about putting them in sensitive places! That would put me off!

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
The comparison to tena pads is a good one - it made me up my limit.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
I'd like to see it "shut" - ie what would actually be next to my skin. It looks and sounds like there are pinch points. OUCH!
The website doesn't look like one I'd buy off. Could we get it from boots or similar?

It has also become apparent post babies that kegels are something that should be done throughout your life, not just during pregnancy, which was the message I got.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
I have one, maybe 2 dear friends I might broach the topic with. As a general conversation, no way!

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

No, no, no and no again. Please no!

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

Is there a longer term cost benefit for the NHS in terms of corrective actions later if we all get our pelvic floors sorted?

rufus5 Tue 17-Jul-12 18:36:54

I'd be more inclined to talk about this to my HV or MW rather than my GP about urinary incontinence. I think if you want this product promoted to new mums it is better coming from these professionals who are talking to the mums about personal issues and recovery from birth anyway. What would encourage me to buy it would be price (not more than £15), information on how to use it and how it works, and effectiveness (i.e. evidence of how long it takes to improve pelvic floor with the recommended usage).

OhNoMyFanjo Tue 17-Jul-12 18:48:15

Ime it isn't the women but tge gp. Mine has said come back at 12 months post birth so therefore this wouldn't be free to me. She said tgat as far as she's concerned tge body doesn't recover fully till then anyway.

Knowing they can give this I think I will make an appt slightly earlier and see

OhNoMyFanjo Tue 17-Jul-12 18:48:43

Btw it is defo something I believe I need help for hence my name!

JosephineJones Tue 17-Jul-12 19:00:22

Thanks for linking to their page on clinical trials.

I haven't had time to look in detail but I thought it worth mentioning that the study cited did not conclude that pelvic floor exercises with the product worked better than exercises without - just that it was no worse. They also pointed out that it "aided women to identify their pelvic floor confidently" and is safe and well tolerated.

It seems that it's more to do with increasing patient choice and encouraging people to keep up with the exercises. I'm not sure that is a good enough argument for persuading GPs to prescribe it.

Whirliwig72 Tue 17-Jul-12 19:14:05

Can I just add that with these tonal systems it's sometimes a bit confusing as to whether they can be used or not if there is any kind of prolapse occurring. My own experience us that I went to Gp with my stress incontinence after birth of gargantuan ds2 but was given very little help beyond 'do your exercises' and an invite to an outpatient education appt at my local hospital which I couldn't attend anyway due to lack of child care provision. hmm. I did a bit research of the pelvic systems available in boots but was hesitant to buy as I'm not sure if I'm prolapsed or not (no medical prof has ever confirmed this). With thus in mind I'd say that these may need to be supplied via Gp referral to be most effective.

cleanandclothed Tue 17-Jul-12 19:53:53

I have now had 2 third degree tears and have bought 2 devices (not this one) for improving the pelvic floor so I may buy it, I would certainly listen to the GP if they talked about it. I have no continence issues, and do intend if at all possible to go back to high impact exercise, so it is not now I am worried about, it is post menopausal issues. I just hope I keep up the motivation to keep doing the exercises for another 30 years! So the advertising I would find most persuasive would be an 'its for life' kind of thing - not new mothers specifically.

TheMysteryCat Tue 17-Jul-12 20:02:16

We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
- yes!

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
- I'd go to GP

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
- health magazines?

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
- that it was clinically proven to work effectively

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
- no more than £20

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
- how it works, how long and how regularly you need to use it

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
-not taboo really, but something i would feel most appropriate to discuss with my GP or my mother only.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
- would go to GP

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
- substantial and qualifiable evidence it is the best/one of the most effective ways to help women with pelvic floor issues.

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

Yes please, if enough of us buy then it's got to be worth a couple of pounds off.

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

I would only buy it if I had heard/read that it got results. Go to GP? No, suffer in silence. blush
~ Where else do you think it can be advertised? Why not in women's magazines? Especially if it was an infomercial-type thing, or where they did trails of readers, as they do with eg skin creams.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you? It works - and here's how, and it's not expensive.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy? £20 to £30

~ What information would you like to know about the product? Has it been tested, does it work?

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo? Maybe mention the subject in general but not get down to admitting a specific problem.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

I'd rather buy from Boots

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

Education - how elkse to GPs learn - is there a magazine? Lancet article?

hanahsaunt Tue 17-Jul-12 20:21:07

I think it needs to be talked about before the birth as well as after especially on second and subsequent pregnancies and even more so again if there has been an SPD issue.

My HV was v big on raising awareness of PF exercises and provided lots of useful info. I think it needs to be available to them and even to midwives to prescribe because they do the majority of ante, peri and post natal care.

It's not something I would generally talk to friends about but not taboo either.

lifesrichpageant Tue 17-Jul-12 20:22:19

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

yes, couldn't hurt at all

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

definitely yes. women are often told 'there is help available' but they have no idea what that means. most women will probably start with their GP.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

Women's magazines, GP's surgeries, antenatal clinics, NCT, fitness publications

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

that this issue is fixable!!

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

30/40 quid

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

Everything - how it works, side effects, how to use it, when to stop using it, how often and for how long, etc etc.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

I talk about it with people who I know very well.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

not really. As it's 'medical' in nature I'd feel uncomfortable buying it from an intermediary.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

Not sure how this works....I suppose by targetting GP's in areas with lots of young families, busy surgeries, female GP's, family practice clinics, etc.

Roseformeplease Tue 17-Jul-12 20:36:43

Yes, a discount would be great. I tried the weights things and then eventually bought a gadget for £50 which worked, over time.

I would have got it from GP but the problems weren't there in the post baby period, but some time later. I have seen a GP but they didn't really treat it as serious and it was uncomfortable to talk about. I would have preferred to talk to the HV who is lovely.

Advertise it in all the baby stuff you get free and also later when you are back in shape but the problem is still there.

I would need to know it works and how long it takes.

Mums make jokes about it ( particularly when they buy a trampoline) but I have never had a serious conversation.

Don't target GPs but get it out to midwives and HVs who are usually much more sympathetic, often have their own children and are just easier to talk to. Could it form part of a "Now your child is 1" questionnaire?

garlicbutter Tue 17-Jul-12 20:52:39

Why are you targeting this only at women with post-baby incontinence? What about older women and women with other weakening conditions?

I've got to say I'm unconvinced that it's any better than unaided exercises for the pelvic floor. I've looked at EMS vaginal exercisers - and would have bought one if they weren't so bloody expensive - as unaided exercise doesn't seem to be working well enough for me. I did look at your gadget as well, but it felt like you wanted £30 for a giant clothes peg, basically (sorry!)

If it cost more like a tenner, I'd have got one just to give it a chance.

garlicbutter Tue 17-Jul-12 21:04:39

Having said the above, I will now ask my GP to prescribe one.

Your website doesn't inspire confidence for some reason. Now I've read it properly, it does contain all the right information. But it looks more like one of those shouty ad sites for useless money-making schemes, iykwim. It should look more bothered about how the customer feels on visiting the site, and have a menu in the form of questions that potential users would ask.

Rara27 Tue 17-Jul-12 21:30:39

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product

Yes please smile My youngest is almost 3, and I hvae never heard of this product before, MATexemption long ran out!

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

I assumed it is something all women put up with after giving birth. Probably be a it embarassed going to my GP about it now though

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

Where is it currently advertised? The maternity units would be a start though, and the health visiting/baby weigh in clinics. Perhaps be given a leaflet at 6 week check?

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

That we don;t have to put up with it and it's 'normal' and an effective treatment.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

Probably alot more than we could afford
~ What information would you like to know about the product?

Price, how it works, real womens stories/outcomes

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

More of a taboo I would think. It depends how close your circle of friends are. Frist time mums may be more inclined to keep quiet though

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

Not sure on tht one. Perhaps an online option?

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

I guess if it were more openly talked about more GPs would know there was a problem. Though I tend to be a bit more open with my health visitor these days

burleyburley Tue 17-Jul-12 21:38:13

- of course we'd like a mumsnet discount. Would that also mean it would more easily appear in peoples searches? I expect it's a problem that is googled more often than docs are visited about it.

- I would prob think to buy this rather than go to gp. Although if I was made aware from health visitor/midwife about I may go to go first.

- could be in the bounty packs that seem to be flung at you every time you move. Also maybe in boots parent packs. Every new mum has that free change bag from boots. Should be on Internet as I expect symptoms would be googled. Maybe on baby related sites. Maybe midwives could be sent info? Posters in surestart centres.

- that there's no need to be leaky

- £25/30

- what it looks like and what you do with it

- would talk to other close friends who are mums too

- would never buy from a friend, even less so a contact at toddler group. Either gp or t'interweb.

- by making it cheap! Maybe pointing out the costs of dealing with this down the line. Pointing out they will have to deal with less problems in older ladies in the future.

narkynorks Tue 17-Jul-12 21:44:34

We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
Yes, always good to get money off!
~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
Would possibly buy it if I had persistent issues, but less likely to go to GP for it and just get it myself.
~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
Antenatal classes
~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
Details about how effective it is and how long you have to use it to see results
~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
Not sure, but would hope it would be less than £20
~ What information would you like to know about the product?
How it works
~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
Only with a few close friends
~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
Yes, HV possibly or MW?
~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
Commission! grin

ninja Tue 17-Jul-12 21:46:44

I used this and found it good - but probably not for long enough 'cos anything like this is a bit of a faff. Not difficult though.

A lot of woman go to postnatal groups/baby massage so maybe working on the health visitors who run these things. I had specific meetings about first aid, weaning, ..,. so one about post natal health and fitness that included mention of the pelvic floor might be a good idea.

It tends to be health visitors rather than GPs who see mums post birth and can't they prescribe some things? Get it on their list!

msrantsalot Tue 17-Jul-12 22:08:43

I would just show a pic of a woman on a bus, having a laugh with her pal, then getting off the bus and leaving behind a puddle...at which point the caption would come up, Buy our pelvic floor exercise thingy, no more embarrassing puddles and a phone number. betcha youd make a fortune!

msrantsalot Tue 17-Jul-12 22:11:09

Or you could get Dara O'Brien to do a mumsnet gig, then see how many seats had puddles...then get Dara to advertise...BTW did I tell you I like Dara?

steppemum Tue 17-Jul-12 22:40:27

I think pelvic floor problems are still quite taboo. I don't think it is something I have ever talked about in RL.
I was shocked after 1st dc that I had such poor bladder control (having always had a bladder of steel) and also no-one told me that I would have trouble with tampons. For me, as someone who has heavy periods, that was a nightmare.

It wouldn't have occurred to me to go to the gp, just assumed it was what you had to put up with.
I would like to see it talked about in women's magazines, radio 4 women's hour etc. not mother and baby mags as I never read those.

I am not sure I would buy it unless I was desparate.
I tried doing exercises, but it wasn't very easy to make progress, at the beginning I couldn't find the muscles to do anything!

It got better after dd1 and now after dd2, isn't too bad.

Actually I would not have done anything about this post natally. There is too much going on. It is later once life has settled and you want your sex life back that you might do something about it.

maples Tue 17-Jul-12 22:41:00

It is definitely a taboo.

Will see if I can think of any clever marketing ideas confused

CheeryCherry Tue 17-Jul-12 23:09:56

Yes to discount obviously. Yes I would consider buying it, especially online-less embarrassing. Would expect it to be around £20. Have discussed it with a pal who has had an op to try sort it. Would advertise on tv, in magazines, get lots of positive reviews. May go to gp for it if I knew it was free and it worked. Wonder how bad you would have to be though?

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Tue 17-Jul-12 23:52:13

Just skimmed this thread as I have to go to bed, but I bought one of these a few years ago (they're also marketed as the Sexerciser by Kegel8 and others; make of that what you will).

I agree with what others have said about the whole thing being a palaver - it takes a good few minutes to do a complete 'session' and I for one have neither the time nor the inclination to poke around in my nether regions for several minutes a day. Plus you just can't avoid the fact it looks like a sex toy - so it has to be washed and buffed after every use and put away in case the DCs find it - making it less likely you'll remember to pick it up the next day. Neither is it user-friendly; it's rock-hard, brittle plastic, unwieldy and unbending.

I was very dis-heartened when I had to have it on its widest setting and could still barely get it to move - a depressing legacy from an almost-12-pounder, a gynaecogical experience from which I very much doubt there is any coming back to 'normal.'

That said, having read others' comments on its effectiveness, I might dig mine out (fnar) and try again - especially since I now struggle at the gym which is potentially a hideously embarrassing experience.

EllenParsons Wed 18-Jul-12 01:25:38

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
Sure, why not!

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
Yes I would go to the GP, as they should be able to deal with the issue and I feel like even if it is an embarrassing problem, for a doctor it is a case of "nothing they haven't seen before", so I would not be so embarrassed in the privacy of a doctor's surgert

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
Maybe in the toilet cubicles as it is kind of related to that? Also just general advertising e.g. in women's magazines, do a promotion in a shop like Boots or in the Boots mag?

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
Something focussing on the effectiveness of the results

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
No idea, to be honest

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
How to use, how long it takes to get results, how effective it is, price

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
I think it is a bit taboo

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
I would not be embarrassed at the GP but would definitely be embarrased at a toddler group or with friends! If not at the GPs I would rather buy online

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
By showing them it is effective

why no one ever mentions you can have surgery to fix the problem, instead of faffing with toners for the rest of our lives?

I plan to just stitch the torn muscles in place as soon as I'm done having babies and use exercise just as a complement.

justaboutisnowakiwi Wed 18-Jul-12 06:50:28

Interesting point, Shroedinger. This is a timely thread for me because I had a urodynamic investigation today (possibly the most bizarre medical experience EVER)

I was expecting to be patted on the head and told that I needed to do my pelvic floor exercises. Instead I was told I really needed an operation (TVT sling).

I am having mild problems - am pg with no 2 - and me referred me to physio. She said no leakage is normal at our age and even said friends who have to concentrate when they sneeze should seek help.

I talk to friends who have had kids about it. Not others.

I wouldn't buy because I'd think it was pseudo science not a proper medical thing, unless it came from doc.

ShatnersBassoon Wed 18-Jul-12 09:26:30

I wouldn't be embarrassed to talk to my GP about this problem, but it would be good if it was mentioned as routine during the 6 week postnatal check-up to make women feel more comfortable about discussing the issue.

I think I'd rather go to the GP to find out about using one of these toners, in case I was barking up the wrong tree and my pelvic floor wasn't the issue at all. I'm not sure I would pay a lot of money for something that might not be able to cure me, so would want medical advice before committing.

I'd probably want to see the adverts in magazines aimed at women of all ages (everything from Glamour to People's Friend), and in Bounty publications that are given to pregnant women and new mothers.

I would be more embarrassed to discuss these problems with friends and family than I would with my GP or other health professional such as a Health Visitor or midwife.

Jins Wed 18-Jul-12 09:30:20

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product? Yes

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why? Yes. A few weeks ago I actually printed out the data and asked my GP to prescribe. They refused

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised? Appropriate magazines

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you? That specific exercise can make a big difference in later life

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy? £15-30 based on my research a few weeks ago

~ What information would you like to know about the product? success rates. Situations where the use of the product is unsuitable

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo? It's discussed in a jokey way but never in a positive light. I can't recall anyone suggesting anything other than exercises

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc? Absolutely not. An alternative practitioner would be OK but I'd never buy this from a friend. I'm too old for toddler groups now but I wouldn't have exposed my pelvic floor issues to the dragons at toddler group grin

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner? Do what the drug companies do. Set aside a huge budget for entertainment. Take them to play golf or to a conference in LA or give them a laptop. However this is not my favoured approach at all because it just pushes up the product price for the NHS and indivduals wanting to buy it. In my experience GPs are very set in their ways and that's sad. I'd actually focus on the gynae consultants and gynae phsyiotherapists initially and the word will eventually filter down

GetKnitted Wed 18-Jul-12 10:08:47

I certainly wouldn't talk to my current gp about an 'embarressing' condition as she is a judgemental, arrogantwitch lady.

(I really should change my gp, but haven't had much luck with doctors in my area)

I think the key to the advertising, might be doing it in this sort of environment, which is largely anonymous, gives women evidence that they are not alone, they should not be embarressed, and that they really can solve the problem.

I hadn't really heard of this before but after a few leaky instances in my second pregnancy, I would definitely be keen to buy and use something like this is issues didn't improve. I expect the incontinence would need to be pretty bad before a GP would prescribe this?

Otherwise I would purchase online and expect to oay about £40 and if there was a Mumsnet discount, even better.

Getting on this thread to answer properly later - I am evangelical about the Aquaflex cones system. Didn't realise there was a problem until around 4 months though - 6 week check was too soon for me to realise as I was still healing.

Tamoo Wed 18-Jul-12 10:31:01

My stepmother (British expat) lives in France and I remember a few years ago she told me about the PFT. She was given it without asking and apparently it's given to new mothers as a matter of routine over there.

I think WRT to the way things are done over here, post partum care is very much focused on the baby esp if you have had a straightforward/low intervention delivery. There needs to be a broader focus generally on what a mother may expect in terms of physical and emotional changes after she leaves hospital. Information on the availability of the PFT could be included in this perhaps in the form of literature to take away or including it as part of the midwife/HV remit? It should of course be available on prescription; as for direct purchase, I guess for what it is it's unreasonable to expect a price lower than about £15, while anything over £25 would (for me anyway) put it out of a feasible bracket.

I don't think bladder problems are necessarily taboo however it is definitely something that is treated jokingly in the first instance, eg 'oh I can't laugh that hard any more, I might lose a bit of wee ha ha', I mean in the sense that people disguise how relentless and wearying the problem is by treating it lightly.

Shouldacouldawoulda Wed 18-Jul-12 10:41:26

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product? Of course. smile

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?Pelvic floor care is kind of retrospective when you have your first. I wish I'd been better informed and offered this product.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised? On other parenting sites and in parenting magazines, doctors surgeries, Bounty/new mother packs.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you? Straight forward, informative, factual information. No hard sell, no flowery language.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy? If it's available on prescription no more than £15 to buy privately.

~ What information would you like to know about the product? How it works, component parts, safety, hygiene, effectiveness.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo? Nothing is taboo after childbirth when you are with other mums. smile

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc? Health visitors should promote it to avoid any issues of embarrassment.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the Pelvic Toner? Inform women it is available and no doubt they will request it.

LettyAshton Wed 18-Jul-12 10:54:16

* Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?*

I might buy if if I were desperate, and I would (and have been!) to the GP.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

6-week check up; leaflet handed out at smear test appointments

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

A guarantee of success!

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

No idea - but if it's very effective then would pay up to £50

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

How it works and why it is better than self-help

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

Can have the odd joke, but the issue soon morphs from a "new mum" joke into a "smelly old lady" problem

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

Would rather speak to neutral GP than some random person at a toddler group

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

If it had proven results and could cut down on incontinence in later life.

I went to the GP with this problem after ds was born, and was referred to an incontinence clinic 25 miles away! A 25-mile drive, plus about a mile-long walk from the car park to the clinic was a nightmare! I used to have an iron bladder but now am one of those people who is always scanning the horizon for a ladies'.

TheMightyMojoceratops Wed 18-Jul-12 12:15:33

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

Yes, but I'll probably be buying one based on this thread anyway.

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

I think about going to GP, but then I think they're just going to give me a leaflet of exercises and tell me I'm being lazy, or that actually it's not so bad that I need bother the GP about it, as long as I go easy on the jumping jacks!

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

Buddy up with sanpro companies to cross-promote (e.g. leaflet inside tampon packets).

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

It works FAST.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

I've already looked that up - so £29.99. I'd rather it was cheaper, but if it works as fast as claimed, it would be worth it to me.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

How it works.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

I would NEVER talk about it with other mums! God, no! Mumsnet doesn't count though. ;)

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

I'd rather just buy it myself and not go through anyone - though if I'd known I could have got it free on my maternity certificate (now expired) then that would have got me to talk to my GP.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

Make it cheaper. It's all about budgets, surely? And USI is annoying, but not that much of a priority compared to antibiotics etc, I imagine... Though it would be useful if GPs could at least cover the existence of these sorts of things in the 6 week check rather than painting it as something you have to put up with.

MerryMarigold Wed 18-Jul-12 16:20:06

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
I think that would 'demean' to some extent. I think it needs the support of the medical profession rather than appear gimmicky.

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
I would if I knew I had a problem, but I think sometimes the problems can come out later. I would think it needs to be pushed by midwives/ health visitors especially if you have had a tear or twins, or any other medical complications which may have weakened pelvic floor.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
Bounty mags. Antenatal places. It's also good to have strong pelvic muscles before birth, so it would be good to market it as something you do before and after. It's a lot easier to get into a habit of using something before than after you have a baby when the world becomes a lot more complicated.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
That it tones pelvic floor muscles and is better than kegels be whatever percent. That you know you're 'doing it right' (sometimes hard to know if you are doing kegels 'right'). That it can prevent incontinence later in life.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
I have no idea how it works. Would have to see it. If it's 2 bits of plastic and a bit of rubber then maybe 15-20. If it has machinery attached and is very complex then maybe closer to 50.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
Safety of use in pregnancy. How effective it is compared to .... How often you need to use it for it to be effective. How to clean it!

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
General pelvic floor but not bladder issues unless v close friend, not a general toddler group discussion!

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
No. GP is the least embarrassing of those options!

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
To ask the question at 6 week check about incontinence (can't remember if they do ask it or not).

MerryMarigold Wed 18-Jul-12 16:20:35

Oh, also in terms of message: that it can improve your sex life!

antonchigurwouldliketomeetyou Wed 18-Jul-12 17:00:30

I agree with those who say there isn't enough physical follow up after giving birth. No-one examined me after I was discharged from midwifery, even though I had a difficult instrumental delivery.

When I noticed that "things" were different my first stop was my GP (checking in with the mumsnet support thread to prepare). I was referred on to a specialist physio who is great, she hasn't recommended any devices, just a variety of exercises. I do think something like the Pelvic Toner could be good, though. When you are just doing squeezes sometimes you don't know if you are doing them hard enough or whatever.

Mumsnet and other parenting sites are a good place to start promoting. Maybe leaflets in chemists, Bounty Packs, that sort of thing would be good. Discpounts are always welcome!

To me the persuasive message is anything about being easy to fit into your daily life, or being easy to do. Also improving continence, improving sexual function and preparing for any future labours.

The cost given on the website seems about right - probably at the maximum of what I would pay.

I don't find these issues taboo - certainly have talked about them to some extent with most friends.

I am happy to discuss with GP. I would sooner go to a GP about this than a toddler group contact!!!

I don't know how to persuade GPs to prescribe. I imagine through promotion of the findings of high quality research. Plus free pens.

antonchigurwouldliketomeetyou Wed 18-Jul-12 17:01:22

merrymarigold have you spoken to your GP? Mine referred me to a specialist physio and I am noticing changes pretty quickly.

LittlePicnic Wed 18-Jul-12 17:40:54

I agree- the medical community just expect women to 'get on' with these things. I have never heard of this. I would pay £20 for such a device. If mumsnet offered a discount, I would give a try. Any more expensive would be prohibitive- maternity pay doesn't go that far and mothers generally put others' needs before their own,

Osmiornica Wed 18-Jul-12 18:05:15

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
Don't see why not

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
I wouldn't buy it as I didn't have any issues with dodgy pelvic floor. I'm not that sure I would buy it even if I had - it's just more money to spend on things that we don't really need. Pelvic floor exercises would work just as well on most people wouldn't they.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
mother and baby magazines, local baby mags, docs surgery

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
If it worked quicker/easier than pelvic floor exercises

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?£10-£20

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
how does it work. how often do you need to use it. how much does it cost.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
I've talked to friends about this and some don't know how to do pelvic floor. Surely it would be better to make sure women know what they're supposed to be doing rather than relying on gadgets.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
No. I would have thought that would be even more embarrassing.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
Prove to them it works better than pelvic floor exercises.

twonker Wed 18-Jul-12 19:10:52

My kids area a bit older now, but I found pelvic floor exercises highly effective and have no ongoing continence issues. I'm sure my health visitor brought the subject up. I would think it would be agood idea to ask the coordinator of health visiting services in NHs trusts to include an information leaflet about stress incontinence to be disseminated as part of one of the developmental checks. I realise not everyone gets along with their health visitor, but there is a programme of developmental checks... Which has changed since I had my kids. Babies used to be given a 9month check which included hearing, but now they test hearing at birth so have scrapped that developmental check. I would say 9 months would be an ideal time as if pelvic floor exercises were going to work they would have done so by then. But whenever they do the check would be good.

marchpoppy Wed 18-Jul-12 19:12:29

When I was discharged after giving birth a fortnight ago, the midwife doing the discharge told me I should do my pelvic floor exercises and she warned me that if I didn't I could end up with a prolapse (she also quoted some other horrible medical difficulties that I forget the name of!) I know this is more of a 'stick' than 'carrot' approach but it worked for me - before now, I thought pelvic floor exercises were an optional extra to labour and delivery but this particular midwife made it quite clear they really need to be done to avoid possible serious complications later in life. I think to market a product in this market, a similar information-giving approach would be needed, pointing out what can go wrong.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Wed 18-Jul-12 19:52:06

Re. the squeezing against something (or not) that someone mentioned earlier; you can actually get a similar effect by scissoring your fingers and using them instead of this thing - if you cba.
Just saying.

MalmoMum Wed 18-Jul-12 19:59:38

Nickelb that sounds a bit rough. Have you been checked out? And checked out again a bit later to see a specialist.

I eventually had an endoceal after DS3 which is a vaginal repair. The fascia in the back wall of my vagina had fallen down after DS1, saw a doc after DS2 and said if I wanted another to wait. It does effect how you can deal with a poo, an another bit deals with how you wee. I saw a consultant when DS3 was a baby but was too knackered to follow through. Probably like most with pelvic floor and wee.

When a super fit'n'slim mum at the gym mentioned she had just had a fantastic procedure for her pelvic floor and had seen the same guy, my ears pricked up. DS3 was 3 by then. Saw doc week later and got it done on husband's private scheme. Doc put the bit back in place and tidied bits up which included some stitches I had probably needed after DS1 but better to get them after all 3 so they never ripped again.

One of the best things I have ever, ever done. I class it as a designer vage. Better still, I could work out more effectively and ended up prepreg weight.

So overall, after birth we are too tired to some extras and money always a worry. Great idea to tie in with buggy fit and yoga classes. Visiting play groups and getting people to giggle about it great way to break down barriers and know you are not alone. If there had been more talk about doing stuff about your post birth fall out down below, I would have done something earlier. On the other hand, I only had to deal with stitches and not a newborn, BF, milk coming in blues etc and got 3 days in a private room.

Yes, still a taboo IMO. Good luck

MalmoMum Wed 18-Jul-12 20:08:13

Idith sounds like you should get checked for an endoceal (sp?). Life changing

would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
Naturally!

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

I went to the GP and was referred to an obstetric physio, who recommended the Aquaflex cones which are very simple to use - more simple than this looks. As I had a prolapse I wouldn't have been happy using without medical referral, as most of them say 'do not use if you have a prolapse' on them, without going into enough detail.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
Women's magazines.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
Weeing when you don't want to is not something that you have to put up with

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
£10-£30

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
Detailled info on how to use, possibly with an advice line to call for help

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
Some of them, but only now it is sorted. I didn't talk to anyone in detail when it was an issue, only mentioned I was seeing the Physio. I wouldn't talk to anyone who had not given birth about it.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
No way. No.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
Show them the cost savings. I'm sure there would be a reduction in PND if women's physical health after birth was taken care of. If women could exercise freely without worrying about incontinence there would be better health all round.

Kleptronic Wed 18-Jul-12 20:36:40

Ok people the website is dire. It looks massively unprofessional and I wouldn't buy anything off there, it looks like an amateur did it. I would think I would be spammed for years if I put any details into it, that's if my bank account details didn't turn up on the Dark Net.

Not to put too fine a point on it, if this was my product to sell, I would vajazzle it, or at least make it less implement-y. Style it. Possibly this would clash with the being on prescription certification, I don't know. But if it works, would it matter if it was beautiful? Or at least slightly less PCV white double glazing. Would the certification be taken away?

I would big up the improved sex life. I would sell it in Ann Summers and through Avon. Hell, I would sell it at Pampered Chef parties. Anywhere women buy clatter, sell them there. Claire's Accessories. Home Bargains. All over the place. You want to take away the screaming 'medical device' vibe from this and make it a 'me time for we/e time' thing. You could have different designs for different age groups. Be slightly cheeky with it. You want a product designer to get going on this. Think training shoes or those rabbit things (don't have one, never seen one) but you get my drift - trainers come in all shapes, sizes, guises and some are serious and some are not, but they are all styled.

That's if you want to sell them. If you want them to be issued free on the National Health, well that's a different post altogether.

I would be selling this to ALL women, and especially going for the younger ones in terms of marketing - they'll be mothers soon enough, unless they choose not to be, obviously. Get them embedded in the (false) conciousness before a problem happens, we'll use them afterwards.

This sort of thing should be part of a self-care 'beauty' regime - not a 'shit my fanjo's falling out' last resort. We ALL deserve to have urinary control and we ALL deserve a good sex life, assuming penetration is our thang.

I am deliberately saying this in a hard-nosed beeyatch marketing type way. You want to sell more of these things. Presumably they work. That is good. Get them to be normal women's gear BEFORE women give birth, then none of us will have any bother over it.

I'd buy it if it was a tenner. Otherwise it starts eating into Other Things money.

Disclaimer: before anyone flames the fanjo hairs off me for being a whatever, I had a ventouse delivery and was ripped back and forth, I know whereof I speak. De-medicine it and more people will use it, which can only be a good thang.

twonker Wed 18-Jul-12 20:57:27

Go kleptronik!

hazchem Wed 18-Jul-12 21:14:07

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
Sure.

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
I didn't realise I could talk to my GP about it. I'm going to book an appointment tomorrow. 15 months post birth and I've taken up jogging and the PF exersizes aren't helping.
~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
Bounty?
~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
That it's normal but fixable
~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
When I see ads for PF systems they never have a price so I assume they are in the £100s

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
HOw you fit it into daily life.
~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
No never talked about it for more then afleeting joke
~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
If I'm too embarrased to get from a GP I'd rather get it off the internet
~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
Well the issue is that at 6 weeks they say oh just do the PF and then there is no follow up so maybe when they do the 8-12 month baby check the HV or someone could talk to mums about it then.

Hoopsadazy Wed 18-Jul-12 21:20:57

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
Yes please!
~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
I have looked at buying, but would like to go to GP to get as then could get advice on whether it might work - sometimes hard to know whether claims on a website are genuine. Need a way to authenticate the site
~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
Women's glossy mags? Perhaps the more 'family' oriented women's mags?
~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
Not sure......that it works, I think. That it's easy to use
~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
I wouldn't to pay more than about £15
~ What information would you like to know about the product?
Hygiene, ease of use, ease of access to the product, discreet packaging - not just delivery, but also to keep in your house without your mil spying it or the cleaner! How to use it, what to do if it doesn't seem to be working. Some diagrams! Please, we have no real clue what's in our bodies
~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
Ha ha, no! Do not discuss in person!
~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
Nope, online
~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
I think they need to have a clue about it all. Not just how to help fix it, but to understand what has happened in the first place and not just dismiss the problems as they are bored/more interesting diseases/packed waiting room/embarrassed

I had been meaning to book a GP appt to ask for yet another referral to physio dept at hospital (who, btw, never mentioned that could get on prescription!) nor did relevant hospital consultant. I will book appt tomorrow and ask for a prescription.

I just looked at the website. Dire dire dire. A Facebook page would be better.

WitchOfEndor Wed 18-Jul-12 21:22:49

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
definitely, if an offer on this pops up on the next mumsnet recommends email I would buy it

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
I was fobbed off by the nurse when I mentioned having issues so am reluctant to go back

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
pregnancy magazines, forewarned is forearmed!

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
enables mums to regain control of their pelvic floor quickly and easily

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
£25 - £40

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
how it works, how quickly improvements can be felt

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
occasionally mentioned to fellow mums, not discussed with husband

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
not sure I'd like to buy through a toddler group!

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
education, a lot of gps seem ignorant of a lot of the side effects of pregnancy and labour

Looking forward to seeing a discount code soon!

sillymummy11 Wed 18-Jul-12 21:24:41

I've got one!!!! My GP prescribed it for me after I complained about peeing myself when running. It was really, really getting me down. I wouldn't have gone to her about my problem...but a friend at yoga told me about the pelvic toner when we were having a giggle about needing the loo all the time- she'd been prescribed one. I was the first person my GP had prescribed it for- she said that she would have to order one so that she could see what it looked like. Before prescribing it she did suggest that I was a bit daft to be running, and what did I expect after having 3 kids?!!! It has helped a fair bit to be honest- but I still have to wear a pad when running at the moment- but a smaller one rather than a huuuuuuuge one, which I was using previously. It is difficult finding the time to use it with small children though- there are no private places in my house at any time of the day or night. I feel that even though I don't use it every day it has helped me to recognise how hard and exactly where I need to pull the muscles in, so I can do my exercises more effectively without it too.

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
YES
~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
I did go to the GP. Only cos I couldn't afford the £30 and I was going to see her anyway. I would normally be too embarrassed, but I was pretty desperate.
~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
Baby magazines. Running magazines (this topic is always on forums) Weekend papers- women of all ages have these problems. Women's magazines generally.
~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
That it can help strengthen the pelvic floor
~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
£30
~ What information would you like to know about the product?
proper scientific trial info
~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
A bit- it has to be a close friend. Mainly in a jokey way, never serious.
~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
I'd be happier talking to my GP rather than any of the above. Or get it off the internet.
~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
Send it to them so that they can see what it looks like and how it works.

sillymummy11 Wed 18-Jul-12 21:29:27

PS I agree- website is dire. It looks highly unprofessional. Get a web designer!!!

LittleBugsMum Wed 18-Jul-12 22:04:40

As far as advertising is concerned, you guys aren't as wet behind the ears as you make out. This thread on Mumsnet is exactly how you market this product and I think you know it...

Cynical as I am, I would love this product to work.

The main issue for me - and this has been briefly mentioned - is sex after having 2 big babies. Although 'leakage' too as I do have to wear a panty liner for when I sneeze...

Frankly, orgasms are just plain rubbish without the strong muscles inside to carry you over and combined with a decreased sex drive anyway, I'd rather have a cup of tea and an early night these days...as you can probably imagine, my marriage is a little bit stale at present.

That's why I'm going to the GP to get one!

(And if it doesn't work then I'm coming back to tell everyone, remember that Mumsnet works both ways, clever marketing people)

MDM Wed 18-Jul-12 22:13:09

Is it like the Epi-no?

CharlotteWasBoth Wed 18-Jul-12 23:05:22

Agree with other posters that the website is naff.

Price seems good esp. compared to the Kegelmaster -- American version of the same thing -- which I bought online.

Great to get it free via GP.

Not a taboo subject IMO.

They need to get it coming up on google when people like me are searching desperately for solutions...

NonnoMum Wed 18-Jul-12 23:27:07

Agree with poster who says you should quote from medical professionals who use more medically-accurate language than "vaginas you could drive a bus up". Would have considered buying this product from you but after reading that you sound like a really inconsiderate, patronising and uncaring organisation.

cardamomginger Thu 19-Jul-12 02:37:52

I sustained serious birth injuries the symptoms of which included urinary incontinence. I consulted my GP, several gynaecologists and two specialist gynae physiotherapists. My treatment has included both physio and surgery.

Right - that's my introduction over with! I think that if a woman's continence issues can be resolved with pfes that she is able to carry out without the need for any specialist physiotherapy or other input, then this improvement can most probably be achieved with plain and simple pfes without any need for any sort of gadget.

In fact, I think that asking a woman to do pfes and seeing if this helps is a useful test of whether she needs a referral to a specialist gynae physio for assessment and treatment, e.g. if after 1 month of pfes there is still no improvement, then she should get referred.

Other posters here have said that the best way to strengthen pf muscles is by doing little and often - remembering to do a few sets when having breakfast, feeding the baby, on the bus, doing the washing up, sitting in a boring meeting, etc. A gadget cannot be used in this way.

Some women (myself included) have such weak muscle function that they need some sort of gadget to get things going. But then you are in the realm of electronic stimulators such as NeuroTrac Continence. I am dubious about the claims concerning the results of clinical trials - the data referred to doesn't prove it is superior to NICE Gold Standard of pfes, it demonstrates that the PelvicToner is not inferior, which is very different. I am particularly dubious about the claim "In clinical trials the PelvicToner has been proven to be much more effective than other systems such as expensive electro-stimulation devices" - no references are given to back up this very strong statement. If the best research presented only shows that PelvicToner is not inferior to the NICE Gold Standard of pfes, I find it unlikely that it produces superior results for those patients who require electronic stimulation.

I think women with stress incontinence should have more access to better services, but I would be concerned that the PelvicToner could be prescribed to women without specialist input. If the plan was to make it available on the NHS via gynae physios or other specialist gynae services, then that would be another matter - it would be prescribed to those patients who need this type of intervention and who can benefit from it.

As a last point, the manufacturers also need to understand that a severely traumatised pelvic floor that is in spasm can mimic a pelvic floor that has no tone and strength. The treatment for the former, however, is very different from the treatment for the latter. Pelvic floor spasm is likely to be diagnosed only by specialists.

Lightshines Thu 19-Jul-12 08:49:31

I am 48 and tbh, pelvic floor has only started being an issue within the last 2 or 3 years, resulting in what my GP has diagnosed as 'urge incontinence'.
Have had a referral to the physiotherapist who prescribed pelvic floor exercises together with medication from the GP. According to the physio, 70% of people see an improvement with this approach.

I find it hard to believe, as (like many others it seems), I am not sure I am using the 'right' muscles. Odd as it may sound (!) I had hoped that the specialist physio would be able to do an internal exam to help check that I was clenching and releasing the right bits!

I would definitely by this product, £30 seems a good price for regaining control of my bladder in the privacy of my own home. I might make the odd joke with friends about 'weak bladder' but I am too embarrassed to talk about it openly with others.

JugglingWithTangentialOranges Thu 19-Jul-12 09:19:39

I think it would be good for it to be available on prescription for mothers/ women at any stage and not just immediately after the birth (Holding a "maternity exemption certificate" as at present) Problems aren't always immediately apparent especially when busy looking after a newborn and adjusting to your new life, and can develop or get worse later on.

typicalvirgo Thu 19-Jul-12 09:46:15

I had to laugh when I saw this in the speel ... ''click here to read three excellent articles from the Daily Mail, Daily Mirror and Woman's Own that all confirm the benefits that the PelvicToner can bring to a flagging sex life!''

I think anything recommended by the readers of the DM would put me off buying it instantly grin grin

Having said that I do think its a good idea, and the price is reasonable.

Mumsnet and other sites are good places. i am in my 40s so haven't been to a toddler group or read a mother and baby magazine for years. I would aim the marketing at middle aged women approaching the menopause. Add a few frightening words like prolapse and I think you have caught a lot of womens attention. Having said that I do think its could be targeted at young mothers too. I was lucky and didn't even think of these issues until after birth no 3.

I probably wouldn't see my GP about this. I feel my problems are minor and if a reasonably priced gadget could help, well I'd try that first.

I guess if you want more GPs to prescribe then you'd have to push the marketing with them directly, but I'm not sure that would be economical if you can sell directly to the public for £30 and a prescription is £7.50 then why not ?

Could it be a different colour ? looks a bit clinical in white... maybe a bit of bling grin

mumah Thu 19-Jul-12 10:40:21

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
I think Mumsnet would be an ideal place to make awareness for this product. Not just a discount but send some samples out to people willing to test and let their reviews do the proof.
~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
If I had known this was available under the GP I most definitely would have approached them about it.
~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
I think leaflets in Maternity Packs given out just after birth, perhaps at the doctors surgery or in the Clinics where you visit midwife.
~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
Real mums saying how it has really helped them.
~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
Not with the mums I have met at from baby groups but my sister-in-laws have spoken about it regularly with me since my pregnancy/birth.
~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
If embarrassment is the big factor then online, it gives the best anonymity but ability to do enough research, have questions answered etc.
~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
Let them know how embarrassing this could be for a woman to broach, especially with male doctors. Just because it is not being spoken about does not mean it is not happening to new mothers.

brendaf Thu 19-Jul-12 10:43:30

I was surprised by Cardomumginger's comment. I've been studying the website because I have decided that this looks like a great product to sell through my therapist business. There is a link on the site to research published in the BMJ (Clinical research published in the British Medical Journal recommended that pelvic floor exercise should be the first choice of treatment for genuine stress incontinence because simple exercises proved to be far more effective than electro-stimulation or vaginal cones. www.bmj.com/content/318/7182/487.abstract)

I have been speaking to a doctor friend and she says you will never see a claim that one thing is superior to another. The test is always to prove that it is not inferior. The thing is that in all published clinical trials weights and electricl devices have proved to be inferior to physio exercises so, in my book, that means this thing is superior to them.

I've spoken to another therapist and she is selling between 50 and 100 every month just by raising the subject of bladder weakness during her consultations. I fancy some of that!!!

cardamomginger Thu 19-Jul-12 12:15:26

Brendaf

I read the abstract of the BUJI paper linked to on the website here:

www.bjui.org/ContentFullItem.aspx?id=427&LinkTypeID=1&SectionType=4

which says:
"Both groups showed statistically significant symptom improvement post treatment. There was no significant difference between groups regarding improvement in SUI. Some women reported easier use and favoured the confidence derived from the biofeedback with the PTD.
Conclusions: The PTD is not inferior to standard PFME. It is a safe and well tolerated adjunct to PFME, which increases patient choice and may promote subsequent compliance and efficacy."

This is a very different conclusion from the one the manufacturers state, which is that their device is superior to NICE Gold Standard pfes - although this statement appears to no longer be on the manufacturer's website.... [hmmm]

As for the superiority of pfes over electronic stimulators - this is simply not true for all women. Women with extreme weakness may require electronic stimulation to help get the muscles working again before pfes can be done. In my case I had a pf score of almost 0 out of 5. With NeuroTrac I would get up to 2 out of 5 and could then start doing pfes. Without this initial help the muscle would not work - I could try as much as I liked (and I had been for the best part of 9 months!) and nothing was happening.

I'm not saying that the PelvicToner has no place. I think it has. But the suggestion was that it should be prescribed by GPs. I think that pfes are a superior way for possibly even most women to improve tone and continence. And, as I said, I think asking women to do pfes and seeing what happens is a useful way to screen out those who need specialist help. And by specialist I mean referral to gynae or physio services with the expertise to accurately assess, diagnose and and prescribe. Those women who will benefit from PelvicToner can be prescribed that. Those who need cones can have those. And those who need electronic stimulators can be given those. In all cases women should be shown how to use them, and their progress needs to be assessed at follow up. I don't think that GPs are best placed to do this, and this is my concern. I think GPs should be prescribing pfes and then refering promptly if these don't work.

FatLadyAboutToSing Thu 19-Jul-12 12:18:56

Marketing: there are lots of websites in which people talk about this sort of thing (birthtrauma.uk and so on) and companies who sell braces, prosthetics and so on (Winn health is one of them). You could look into advertising with them. Or possibly on/with products required by those of us with problems in this area (Tena Lady, anyone?).
If you have a real and chronic problem, like myself, you will try just about anything to improve matters IF you know where to get hold of it. What about in public or department store loos (the sort of ads you see on the inside of doors in motorway service stations)? These are the places in which you will be thinking about and wishing you didn't have a problem, so you might be more receptive ....
It's not something most of us relish talking about.

Fillybuster Thu 19-Jul-12 12:36:36

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

Yes - but more than that, this is something I would have wanted to know about in advance of experiencing anyy questions (see below)

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

Definitely, if I knew about it.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

I would like to have known about this before experiencing any issues...so what about in all the Govt sponsored ante-natal handbooks, some leaflets (or discount vouchers) in teh Bounty packs they give out in the hospitals and at the HV centres, getting NCTn to hand out leaflets about the products; get HVs to stock/hand out leaflets and recommend the product?

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

That it works!

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

No idea.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

How much it costs, how long it takes before it works, how much time does it take each day, how big is it.....

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

Not really.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

I would far rather talk to my GP than a random toddler-group mum!!

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

More information - I'm not convinced my GP even knows about this - and maybe some pressure from various parenting organisations to raise awareness.

Elainey1609 Thu 19-Jul-12 13:09:57

I think at the moment the main problem is that we just aren't given a lot if any medical followup after birth, concerning urine leakage.
After continuning problems, finally went to GP and just says pelvic floor exercises, didnt evenen reccomend any.

If this is something that could be perscribed by GPs or recommended by health visitors ect, they us as mums need to know about it to ask for it........ive never heard of people that will freely reccomend specific things unless i ask for the. ......so if i knew about the product i would deffo ask my GP about it.

But firstly i would deffo want to know if it actually works, what evidence have
you got that proves this

Does the product help with minor problems and stress incontinence - as in leaking if Ii move quicky and unexpecdly or when i sneeze and cough and currently i have to having to tense when sneezing and coughing .

I would also want to know how long you would have to use it, where and when and how many times in day, is it portable?
Does it work on people of all sizesI have d

Could this be given discounts for the products, and advertised need to get word out there, childcare magazines, mumsnet, netmums,

It could be advertises of the long term cost and health effectivness...eg preventing prolapse and long term required use of tenna lady

I deffo wouldnt buy it at a todler group, but from a chemist fine or online......some baby clinics maybe though
In the finacial crisis i wouldnt be able to afford anything over £30

i have deffo talked to it with people normally people i know and they are normally other mums......but it sometimes comes up in a joke....eg i sneeze and i pee my pant a little ....

Bladderama Thu 19-Jul-12 13:32:41

I agree that mumsnet is a good place to start alot of mums use this site as a valuable source of information and advice about things they would be embarrassed to discuss in real life.
I had no idea that this was available to buy or from the GP. I was prescribed one by the incontinence nurse and was horrified when the pharmacist explained that it was an unusual it and had to be ordered in specially, this was extremely embarrassing.
I think leaflets available in Dr surgeries and pharmacies about the product would help alot.
The message that would have helped me is to know how common bladder problems actually are and how there is this simple device available which can make such a difference.
I do not like discussing bladder issues in real life at all.
I would like to see a raised awareness of bladder and pelvic floor troubles in mums a more focused approach by health professionals to uncover these issues with access to help and guidance.
I would have been happy to buy this from Drs or a large pharmacy or other pregnancy/baby retailer.
I would like to see more GPs prescribing the pelvic toner it makes such a difference to how we woman feel and helps to stay in control of our pelvic floor with less embarrassing issues.

LimburgseVlaai Thu 19-Jul-12 14:30:25

I wanted to have SlackBladder as my mumsnet name but it had already been taken.

I have had bladder problems all my life, and they only got worse after two very long and difficult deliveries. After much badgering and insistence I finally managed to work my way through GP, physio, GP, gynae, GP and finally properly specialised bladder consultant to have a posterior repair and a TVT (basically a little hammock to hoick up your urine tube). The whole process took two years. The TVT made a huge difference but my pelvic floor is still very weak.

The physio didn't help at all, nor did the electronic gadget that I was lent by the hospital, not the Aquaflex that I bought. So an alternative, proven product would certainly be of interest to me.

I have no problems talking to health professionals about this, nor to other women. As I said, I really had to insist on being referred up the medical hierarchy before a proper flow test was done and I had my operations. If I had been less vocal I would still be sitting in a puddle.

So: I think these kinds of problem often do not manifest themselves until some time after a birth, so aiming marketing at pregnant women is probably not very productive ("It won't happen to me").

Advertising on sites like mumsnet would help. I don't read women's magazines so cannot comment on them. Some editorial in Sunday paper magazines (e.g. Sunday Times Style) would be better than advertising, I would have thought.

Perhaps GP practice nurses could be targeted as they are the ones who do the contraceptive check-ups. They could routinely ask women about their pelvic floor and bladder health, and offer advice including devices.

summercloud Thu 19-Jul-12 14:48:28

I personally think this is a fabulous idea and I would defo try it as I have had a weak bladder for awhile but it has got a lot worse since having my son. I think that there should be more advertising stating that the doctors can prescribe these because a lot of woman are too embarrassed to talk openly about bladder problems and that's why so many go untreated. If these were affordable for the working family on a budget that would be fab because at the moment the way things are people don't have much spare cash if any. I also think that making them more widely available in shops and the playgroups etc would help a lot more too.x

TheMouseDancing Thu 19-Jul-12 16:26:58

I have been suffering from mild urinary incontinence since having dd who is now 13 weeks. I would definitely have asked my GP for one of these at my 8 week check if I had known about them.

I am currently seeing a physio for the incontinence so perhaps it would be useful if the pelvic floor exerciser was available through physio's as well as gp's.

I agree that advertising through MN and offering a discount is a good idea, also how about advertising them in the bounty packs given out on the post natal ward with a discount voucher?

Lillabet Thu 19-Jul-12 16:30:31

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

Yes!

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

I’d be inclined to buy it, but would like it prescribed either by my GP (unlikely he is still in the stone age – I had to have children before he’d fit the coil!! shock), my midwife, post natal or the incontinence physio who I have been referred to this pregnancy (and should have been referred to after DS was born!); I don’t think it should solely be down to GPs to prescribe these.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

Pregnancy magazines, women’s lifestyle magazines, in Mama Packs/ Bounty Packs / Emma’s Diary Packs, the back of service station toilet doors.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

That is works both preventatively (more inclined to buy) and as an effective cure for incontinence/way to improve pelvic floor strength.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

Around £30, which having looked at the site is what I would pay for it anyway smile. It is considerably cheaper than other products on the market that purport to do the same thing, without as much evidentiary back up as this product.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

How effective it is and the kind of time frame within which you would expect to see a noticeable effect (references to studies would be great, but then I like stats/claims to be backed up wink <looks hard at GSK and various trainer manufacturers!>) and how it works.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

I wouldn’t say taboo, but not a usual topic of conversation, usually only in reference to pregnancy/delivery issues with close mum friends!

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

I’m not embarrassed to talk to my GP, like I said above my biggest issue would probably be getting them take any problem I had seriously. Other practitioners (midwives, practise nurses, physiotherapists) would probably be easier to approach and more amenable to listening to the issues I had. I’d rather have it prescribed, but if that were not possible/likely I would rather buy through the website, definitely not friends or toddler groups; although if I found it effective I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it in toddler groups/to friends if the topic of conversation came up.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

Give them an overview of the Mumsnet feedback wink, actually educate them that this IS a problem that for a minimal cost can be rectified and should automatically be asked about at/included in 6 week post natal checks beat them around the head with free samples.

ICutMyFootOnOccamsRazor Thu 19-Jul-12 18:15:09

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

Discounts are always good!

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

I think I'd be more likely to buy it than ask a doctor for it, tbh. I've never suffered from USI, but I doubt I'd bother a Dr about it unless it was severe.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

Bounty packs, parenting magazines, that sort of thing

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

I'd want to know that it was a common problem, that the product is very effective, and maybe a money back guarantee

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

No idea. 50 pounds?

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

How much time it would take, how quickly I'd see a difference.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

I have had these sort of jokey discussions before. Never discussed it seriously.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

I'd rather buy in a (nice, anonymous) pharmacy or supermarket or online. No way would I buy at a toddler group.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

You know what GPs are like. Bribe them with pens. grin

pennwood Thu 19-Jul-12 19:26:14

Mumsnet is one of the best places to start and offering a discount would be good. Ante natal should have samples to show prospective mums with free literature and be encouraged to discuss the pelvic floor issues. Competitions are an excellent way of promoting products. Free trials also stimulate alot of feedback, blogs and word of mouth advertising. The product would also be invaluable for ladies who have experienced a hysterectomy and are advised to do daily pelvic floor exercises to prevent further organ prolapse. It could also be sold as increasing pleasurable sex. Get one in featured in 50 Shades Of Grey! Posters should be provided for GP,s, gyne hospital departments, ladies changing rooms at swimming baths,spas,gym,s etc. Gp,s should be given incentives & lots of stats by the company to promote prescribing them as they work to strict budgets. Ladies need to be made aware they can request them on prescription & most read magazines such as Woman, or The Lady & they need to be real women type adverts. Prevention is always cheaper than cure! I would want to purchase on line and not pay more than about £30, with a money back guarantee if no improvements.

PuddingsAndPies Thu 19-Jul-12 21:03:45

I didn't know there was anything like this available - and I speak as somebody waiting on a referral to the hospital for a vaginal prolapse, and related incontinence. The GP asked me about whether I'd tried pelvic floor exercises (yes - & I've also tried the Aquaflex weights, which I probably read about on MN), but nothing like this was mentioned. I couldn't be sure if this is through ignorance, or lack of interest on behalf of the GP, to be honest.

Olympicnmix Thu 19-Jul-12 21:05:00

I guess this product might be aimed at me. I have appalling pelvic floor muscles as the result of a 3rd degree tear after dc1 and have gone on to have 2 more children subsequently so I really really need to do something about this. Am all too aware of the statistics looming for me post menopause. The effect it has now is inhibiting as I am worried about having sex with a new partner as am not sure how satisfactory it will be for either of us.

I've been referred to Women's Health twice, shown how to do pelvic floor exercises, used cones (they fall out) and electrical stim (to no avail) and Women's Health just shrugged when I asked, 'what next?'

My only option as far as I can see is to ask my GP for a recommendation for vaginoplasty, which won't be available on the NHS as my insides aren't hanging out, and start saving the 4k for the operation.

I am sorry but I don't believe a piece of plastic like this is going to get the results that it promises. I'd be happy to try one out and report back to MN. If it did work for me, it would work for anyone with a vagina!

kelzw84 Thu 19-Jul-12 21:12:37

I would want to know how quickly the product starts to work/help, how often it needs to be used, if it's discreet, how long it needs to be used for and also if it helps major problems as well as miner proplems.

It would be good to see it advertised in magazines, especially magazines aimed towards women, also adverts in public toilets would be good, as well as toilets in doctor surgerys, bounty packs you get durning and after pregnancy.
If I was to by this I would expect to pay around £20-£25.00 but no more, I think it would be good if it was avalible to buy from chemists, local family planing clinics, health visitors and midwifes.

If I could get it on prescription I would ask my doctor, but think I would prefer to ask a female doctor as they would be more understanding, I think it would be good to get a website up about this subject and get women and men to join and show that this can be a really bad problem and effect women in various ways, Maybe some of us who blog should do a post on our blogs about the problem and what can be done to help and mention the product and what it does, how it works etc.

I would also talk to friends about it as I know that a lot of people can feel embrassed having this proplem but it is properly more common than we all think

TheLightPassenger Thu 19-Jul-12 21:27:10

We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

Yes, why not?

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

Probably.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

Magazines/parenting sites

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

The research evidence that it is effective

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy

£40

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

As above re:research evidence

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

Occasionally.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

Not way. Pharmacy or HV.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

Don't know, I'm not a Dr!

HannahLI Thu 19-Jul-12 22:56:57

It's a really tough product to market! My initial thoughts were that it looks like a speculum that they use when they do your smear. My smear experiences have been particularly painful so it didn't leave with any excitement for your product at all! Sorry! I think if your GP prescribed it you might be inclined to use it. I have to say recommendations from friends or other mums might make you interested but the picture was a real put off for me. Maybe think about how you present it visually as a product?

A discount is always good, and it gets people looking and talking particularly if it's a flash type one. I think I would be unlikely to ask the GP for it and I don't think my GP would prescribe it unless you really pushed for it and how many people are prepared to do that? I do however think GP's should be prescribing this as there are lots of people with this issues. I know my mother in law has problems and wears pad and she is not prepared to do much about it and has almost accepted that that is life!

Advertising on mums sites with good reviews will help, in big branded parents magazines to raise profile and also I think a big target audience will be older women who think that's life so maybe some of the glossy magazines aimed for that age group. A competition which sounds a bit cringe worthy but it gets people looked at it and thinking about it even if they don't enter and you might be very surprised by the response it generates.

In the blurb the most persuasive thing for me was the quick improvement within such a short period of time for 5 minutes a day. Testimonies are very powerful when branded right too.

I think around £12 is a good price but I know it's marketed for a lot more. It is a very taboo subject amongst younger women and I have never heard any of my friends mention it, however I have heard menopausal aged women talking about it. I think I would be embarrassed to sell my friend one but I would talk to them about it if needed.

In order to get GPs to prescribe it has to be cost effective for them and I really don't know how you get through to them. Maybe you should consider using a study or something that's in GP jargon.

aristocat Fri 20-Jul-12 00:42:53

I agree that this is a big problem for lots of new moms, my suggestion would be to have your health visitor/ midwife make them available.

I didnt know that a product such as this was available and TBH most of us do not do our pelvic floor exercises simply because there is so much else to do with a new baby.

TrishF Fri 20-Jul-12 03:53:28

I was referred to a 'programmer' following the forceps birth of my first child. It was full of incontinent old ladies......and me. The assessment was that my muscles weren't great but weren't a disaster either i.e. I didn't leak when I coughed! so I wasn't too embarrassed to go to my GP but the results weren't particularly satisfying - the problem still remains.

I wouldn't buy through a friend. Online works best for me. More than anything I'd need to be convinced it actually works, and understand how often I'd need to use it to see a result. If a friend recommended it having had fab results then that would be most convincing, but not one who's on commission!

I would have really welcomed this opportunity and the problem has got even worse following the birth of my second child. I'd like to know how much your product costs and how easy it is to use. I'd find something time consuming difficult to accommodate into my busy life.

MrsHoarder Fri 20-Jul-12 09:04:51

Wouldn't buy one from a friend and certainly not through a toddler group. A pharmacy maybe though, or a reputable online seller (boots?) If MN were to offer a discount, that would feel like a safe way to buy.

When focussing marketting consider that the women who are most likely to decide its worth spending money on this will not want anything down there for a good few months post-birth. So look at places mums go with babies/toddlers and adverts in the loo seem like a good plan.

unquietmind Fri 20-Jul-12 09:08:18

Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

It wouldnt have occurred to me to go to the GP for it, I would only buy it if I could afford it (which at present I cannot afford a coffee!). I dont ever think of my GP as responsible for anything other than referrals to hospitals or prescription medication, even though I know they are responsible for more.

Where else do you think it can be advertised?

Typically called 'women's' magazines, glossy, chat, parenting and pregnancy magazines, maybe go on womens' hour and talk about the evidence based part of it? GP surgery posters, ladies bathrooms, discount with incontinence products (Im thinking the pelvic floor people pay tena lady a bit to put a discount voucher with their products - tena lady dont lose out too much, they dont really want their customers to be incontinent forever do they ;) and customers buying tena lady or similar will remember that and may use them again for another reason or recommend them to others who pelvic floor is not applicable to)

Since it seems to focus on sex on the website, I suppose it could also discretely advertise in Ann Summers or other sex shops, but this may not reach women who do not shop in these places for whatever reason.

Health visitors, midwives, other health professionals you come into contact with could have information on it.

What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

Not getting a prolapse when Im older? I do have stress incontinence and I would want to know it works and that witth use I would eventually need no support from it and manage to not have stress incontinence.

How much do you think it would cost to buy?

I imagine it costs a lot. Then I checked the link - £29.99 - great!

Just for anyone not clicking the link - heres something important:

*It is the only pelvic toning device to be available on NHS Prescription, which means _it is free of charge to new mothers who have a Maternity Exemption Certificate_* huzzah!

What information would you like to know about the product?

That it works, that I can use it at home discretely and its not obvious if I choose to use it with other people present and they are wondering if I look rather uncomfortable. I want to know if Ill still need incontinence products while using it or during the process and some real life feedback.

Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

I have a friend who I can talk about it with because her situation is unusual (I wont share here) but it is a prominent part of her life so I feel more comfortable opening up to her. My other mum friends who are very glamarous and stylish, lost baby weight and are just perfect all over dont even look like they fart like scruffy old me so as much as I respect, trust and value their friendship - its not taboo but I dont really want others to sit their imagining Ive wet myself everytime we have a joke. I also think people may unconsciously look at my pants and see if I have been incontinent if they knew? Paranoia perhaps...

If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

Considering the quote on the website that the link above takes us to:

“You do see a lot of British women with vaginas you could drive a bus up,” one woman obstetrician remarked graphically.

I feel so much more comfortable talking to a clinician now!!!

My GP is pretty good I would speak to her. If my friend recommended it that would be fine but I dont want to buy one from a friend like Avon. That might suit others however.

How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

Show them the cost effectiveness from areas which have done clinical trials and prescribing costs for related treatment or other have reduced. I imagine it may impact on indirect prescribing and treatment costs for other conditions which stress incontinence may contribute to.

I think a more professional looking website may help people feel more confident. It does make me think of those adverts at the back of magazines that you have no idea if you can trust.

As I am not a GP I cannot comment on whether they enjoy training sessions and what not, but perhaps the pelvic toner people can give some testers/freebies to clinics, GPs can hand them out to anyone who comes in to ask and then get feedback for themselves?

Could it be part of some NICE guidelines or best practice chart to state what to prescribe or refer in the process of seeking support for stress incontinence etc?

hk78 Fri 20-Jul-12 11:35:17

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?

Yes, I love a discount on anything. However, I would prefer this sort of thing to be free as I see it as a medical appliance.

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?

It should be available to buy in a wide range of outlets, to ensure people are aware of it, however I would prefer to get it on prescription because of the cost.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?

What about the back of toilet cubicle doors, similar to the bladder problems ads?

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?

Anything that prevents incontinence/prolapse later is important - many younger women just aren't aware of this.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?

£10 would be ok.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?

I only care whether it works or not.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

I don't really talk about it, however I don't mind if others do, so don't see it as taboo.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?

It would be good if it was available mail-order/online shopping for those who are embarassed.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?

Usually, GP's can be persuaded to prescribe a product more if there are whacking great big bonuses involved...seriously, just raise awareness and maybe lower the price a little?

brendaf Fri 20-Jul-12 11:52:27

cardamomginger
You're obviously an expert!

One thing tho'. You say 'there is a suggestion that it should be prescribed by GPs'. It is being prescribed! No should about it. If it's good enough for the NHS to decide to pay for it for me then thats good enough for me

Yeh, i'm sure there is a place for everything but i know loads of women who have been to the physio and told to do exercises but nothing happens. In my experience this pelvic toner helps you exercise properly, it shows you you are squeezing the right muscle and you notice the improvement very, very quickly. so in my book it is definitely superior to anything else and specially to just handing out a leaflet!!!!!

Pissfacegypsy Fri 20-Jul-12 12:23:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pissfacegypsy Fri 20-Jul-12 12:25:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pissfacegypsy Fri 20-Jul-12 12:26:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pissfacegypsy Fri 20-Jul-12 12:27:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

camdancer Fri 20-Jul-12 12:32:53

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
A discount is always welcome!
~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
Atm, I'm debating whether to go to the doctors about something very similar, but it is hard to know what is normal after pregnancy and how long to wait before it is a proper problem.
~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
I bought a pelvic floor trainer after seeing it on Embarrasing Bodies. They did a trial of 3 or 4 and I bought the one they recommended.
~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
That it works quickly, discretely and the results stay for a long time i.e. I don't have to keep using it for the rest of my life.
~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
£20-30?
~ What information would you like to know about the product?
How to use it, how often and for how long.
~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
no.
~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
I'd rather buy it from a nice impersonal shop thanks.
~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
I think you'd need to convince a lot of them that this is can be a real problem and not just a natural consequence of having children. And then you'd need to convince them that it does actually work as you say it will.

cardamomginger Fri 20-Jul-12 12:56:32

brendaf - I really wish I was completely ignorant about all of these things! grin sad.

I just get concerned when something is being touted as a panacea. With post-birth stress incontinence, different women have different needs. I still think it should only be prescribed by a specialist physio, etc, with individualised instruction and follow-up. And GPs are unlikely to do this....

AnnMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 20-Jul-12 13:18:48

Thanks for all your comments so far on this topic - do keep them coming.

The team at PelvicToner have asked us to pass on the following "Thanks for all the feedback on both the product and on the marketing. There are some great ideas on this thread which we will definitely look into (also some which we have tried many times with varying degrees of success!) - it's interesting to read such a wide variety of experiences with pelvic floor issues - and the treatment women receive.
Do continue to add your comments"

Bubby64 Fri 20-Jul-12 14:00:18

My pelvic floor is absolutly shot after the birth of my twins and a couple of subsequent operations, so I am seriously looking to try this.

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
Yes-most definatly!

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
I have already been to my GP with little sympathy, so I would prob have to buy one myself

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
magazines aimed at women, mother and toddler mags.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
Personal recommendation

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
I was surprised to see it advertised at £29.99, will look at buying one

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
How to ensure you are using it correctly, timescales for improvement and what to do if no improvement

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
I have already talked about it with a friend, as have had to borrow undies off her one really bad day!!

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
Hate speaking to my GP as he is not that sympthetic, but would buy at pharmacy

Deborahmp Fri 20-Jul-12 23:41:35

I would you I'd like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product. I would go to the GP for it but think it should be offered as a matter of course! How does it work?

carolinecordery Sat 21-Jul-12 10:22:11

I had a mild problem after the birth of my second- leakage when trampolining only- I thought I'd be good and get fit on the trampoline in the back garden after childbirth but this was scuppered by the problem which meant I didn't start an exercise programme for cardio like I wanted to.

I didn't consider it taboo to mention this to my friends or family, or even acquaintances if it came up.

I had read somewhere that incontinence after childbirth was often due not to muscle weakness or tear but nerve damage so that the right signals could not get from the brain to hold in all the muscles necessary all the time and that you just had to wait until the nerve repaired itself.

I have improved over time (it's been 15 months) without doing any pelvic floor exercises. I do find the exercises an immense drag and a bore- I thought, can't you just do the exercises to fix it when you've got a problem rather than having to bother doing them to prevent a problem you might not ever get?

Not sure if I would buy a product, and not for more than £10.
It's true that there's little medical follow-up of the mother after birth.

I probably wouldn't go to the GP if my problem was worse. I tend to self diagnose, study and self treat off the internet.

I hadn't considered it as a problem of later life. I have not really considered any medical problems of later life yet, but other campaigns have succeeded in getting later-life problems into our awareness with regard to changing our routines now (I''m thinking of osteoporosis, type 2 diabetes, obesity, stress reduction etc).

niminypiminy Sat 21-Jul-12 15:55:15

Just wanted to add that if you are serious about addressing women's incontinence problems then

a) it must, must, must be marketed to older women not just new mothers.

b) the long term effects on the pelvic floor of birth-trauma are immense. You may have only tiny leaks six months, or two years afterwards. But once you get to menopause the effects are catastrophic. This message really does not get through. Women think they have recovered, but the damage becomes apparent much later. The marketing could say much more about this. It isn't just a 'for now' problem.

Jux Sun 22-Jul-12 11:37:15

One night dh and I we're watching tv, there was a run of adverts - Tena lady, some tampon or other, and Immodium. When the third ad finished, dh looked at me and said "bloody hell, leaky ladies!". Well, since I had a massive ms attack I have proudly been a Leaky Lady. I suspect that the term won't go down too well in advertising though.

(I wouldn't mind not being a Leaky Lady any more though. Would this device help me, do you think?)

teahouse Sun 22-Jul-12 13:30:15

Due to a number of issues, eighteen years after the birth of my youngest I am now having this issue seen to. I did my pelvic floors but my kids were both big, the deliveries traumatic, and they ruined my stomach muscles (you can get a fist between them), and my pelvic floor. Back then no one really cared though and I have been left to struggle on alone.

My little leaks have blighted my life and stopped me doing any number of things and now I am middle aged and am in a position to have a major op, things will I hope get sorted enough for me to lead an almost normal life (although a stomach muscle op would help if I could afford one). It has affected my confidence though and my self-esteem may never recover properly; I've been a single mum for over a decade and since things have been getting worse leak wise since I hit the menopause (aged 40), which co-incided with the end of my most recent relationship, I haven't dated properly and may not really ever date properly again.

This needs to be marketed for older woman and young mums need to know the potential impact of this problem.

SirBoobAlot Sun 22-Jul-12 16:54:48

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
Yes please!

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
Pre-birth, probably not, but kind of left my dignity in the delivery suite grin I would still be a little bit nervous about it though.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
In women's magazines, online, on websites such as MN, in health centers.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
Personal recommendation, either by a friend or a poster on here I knew.

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
Between £20 and £30.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
A "How To Use" guide that didn't make you feel ridiculous, what type of improvment you can hope for, and a time scale of when you access more help if it doesn't improve.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
I sometimes make a joke about things, testing the waters (pardon the pun) to discuss things. But bodily functions are taboo quite frequently, and discussing a problem with them is admitting they exisit, so some people can find it embarassing.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
Maybe health visitor? Or a group at a children's center.

Cassettetapeandpencil Sun 22-Jul-12 21:28:49

I would be very keen to try this product out. I have recently taken up running and after having a large baby closely followed by twins my pelvic floor is not what it sbhould be and more than once I've wet myself whilst running!

It depended how good the discount was but if there was a discount offered I may consider buying one. However, finances being what they are I'd be more likely to go to my GP to see if I could be prescribed one.

This could be advertised in doctors surgeries, magazines for women, fitness and mother and babies.

I talk and joke about my wee problems with my friends so we would discuss the product if one of us were using it. I'd want to know if it hurt and how often and for how long I would need to use it. I'd expect to pay about £20 for this item.

I think I'd be embarrased to buy one of these at a parent group as I don't know the other mothers very well. I'd buy one from a pharmasist or on-line.

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product? Yes, I think that's a great idea.
~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why? I am about to phone my GP after finding out about this to ask for it.
~ Where else do you think it can be advertised? In GP surgeries, womans magazines etc.
~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you? That it would quickly help with bladder problems. (my problem is my bladder now hangs down when full) sad
~ How much do you think it would cost to buy? £30 wink
~ What information would you like to know about the product? As much as possible!
~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo? I'm a pretty open person but I still think this is a bit taboo, even with my best friends who also have children.
~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc? I think it would maybe be good to have the option of perhaps the HV prescribing it or FPC.
~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner? By giving them the stats on how many women who have bladder, pelvic problems after birth and how much money could be saved by using this to avoid surgery, counselling etc.

Fingers Crossed!

Have just called my Dr and waiting for a call back.

Thanks Mumsnet! I'm only 21 and have been told they wont help me surgically until I decide I don't want anymore children so I am being optimistic about this. smile If this works you may have just saved my confidence. smile

CakesnKids Mon 23-Jul-12 20:09:27

Schrodingers how did it go? Did they prescribe it for you?S

Pissfacegypsy Mon 23-Jul-12 22:34:20

Фывфывф

I've to go in on Monday and they are going to check that the damage downstairs isn't so bad that the toner will make it worse. She said if not then they will look into giving me it, she had never heard of it before.

Hopefull!

Choclatespread Mon 23-Jul-12 23:24:17

I would like a discount on Mumsnet.

Firstly I think GP/ health visitors should do more to discuss the problem more openly, like at the 6 week check-up, as mine didn't. I was too embarrassed to mention, & it just got forgotten about, hence I'm having to deal with it on my own.
If the GP was to ask more open questions, then it would become easier to discuss.
It needs to be advertised more openly, in magazines, surgeries, parent/ toddler groups.
I would pay £10-£15.

MyLittleMiracles Tue 24-Jul-12 08:59:19

I would definitely want one.

I would probably not go to my gp though but would more than happily buy one for myself if they weren't too expensive and I could order it online. Personally I don't tend to talk about pelvic floor exercises to any of my friends, its just something that doesn't get chatted about.

I Think all mumsnetters should be able to order it through mumsnet and should be given a discount cos quite frankly we are amazing.

I am hoping it would be under £30 because any more than that I wouldn't realistically be able to afford and I really wouldnt want to go to the doctor. I do think doctors ignore the pelvic floor, they give you exercises and leave you to get on with it which leaves you unsure if you are doing it right.

prettybird Tue 24-Jul-12 09:13:23

I have some damage to my pelvic floor but ironically it didn't manifest itself as "ordinary" incontinence but in my inability to keep in a tampon. Therefore, it's not somethng that would have been picked up at the 6 week check - or even necessarily in the first year while I would have still held a maternity exemption certificate. It was asking for advice on Mumsnet about whether this was normal that encouraged me to go to my GP and he was very understanding and arranged a referral to the Gynae physios. I have a very good GP and I have no qualms about discussing personal issues with him.

Turns out that all the Pilates I had been doing had been compensating for the damage that was done (induced, forceps delivery and a baby over 4kg - yet I considered that I had had a natural birth purely because it was vaginal and not a c-section which was my big fear hmm); I had no tone whatsoever on one side and had lost the "cough" reflex. I managed to recover it to a certain extent with the exercises she gave me, but not totally.

I may well consider a PelvicToner and a discount would of course be useful. I do notice that whenever I have a break from Pilates (like at the the moment - the summer holidays) my pelvic tone decreases.

Never really talked with friends about it - but that was partly because I had ds at a different time to when they were having kids, so not because of any embarassment. I have talked about it at Mumsnet meet-ups though! wink

blueskycp Tue 24-Jul-12 11:54:39

I would be interested in trying this product. Two babies and a hysterectomy within the space of two years has left me somewhat damaged in that department! I haven't mentioned it to my GP yet - I guess it's just something I feel I have to cope with but it does get me down sometimes i.e. coughing and sneezing, not being able to run around with DD's etc.

SaffronCake Tue 24-Jul-12 16:10:29

I had no idea some women were unable to locate their pelvic floor.

I have been dong PF exercises very regularly since my third baby was born breach 9 months ago and have noted very little improvement. I've followed all the print out stuff and yeah... It's not happening. I still dread coughing. I no longer wear pale colours below the waist.

I think you need to make sure the advertising get the message over that some women can't work out how to do them, but sensitively, so it's not coming over as "you're doing it wrong".

You should also be on Twitter, I realise you're on FB but not everyone uses it. It could be a challenge to think of enough to tweet but do give it a go. And the website could do with a facelift. I know none of that sounds relevant but you would be surprised how much good visibility online and pleasant presentation helps spread a word. It doesn't have to be all flashy, just a bit simpler and softer. People attach better to sympathisable causes with an attractive aesthetic (which probably explains why puppy charities do better than child abuse charities).

And for private sales you need to reassure people the packaging is discrete. I have just ordered one and I will be rushing to get to the post first. USI is not something I really want anyone to know. Not even my GP. I just want it fixed ASAP.

missorinoco Tue 24-Jul-12 20:21:53

What an interesting topic. I hadn't heard of the product previosuly.

I agree wholeheartedly we need to raise awareness of the issue, both to enable women to feel more comfortable seeing their GPs about it, and to raise awareness of the importance of good pelvic floor exercises.

Initially I would have said I wouldn't be interested in a discount, as I wouldn't buy a product on prescription, but as pointed out earlier, actually I may not want tos ee my GP about it.
So yes, I think a discount would be good. How much would the product cost? - £30 (a guess).

Where can you adverstise it - anywhere, in glossy women's magazines, in women's running magazines, in pregnancy and childbirth magazines, on television, in GP surgeries, in pharmacies, and on online shopping websites such as Boots, Sainsburys, etc.

Do I talk about it? Generally no, but I have mentioned it to friends in the context of exercising, where it came as a surprise to me. It annoys me that I do not wish to discuss it with my husband as I think it will make me appear less attractive and sexually appealing, specifically I think this is my issue I am reflecting on to him.

Persuade GPs to prescribe it - presumably it costs more tghan the precription charge, so I doubt they will be running around to prescribe it willy nilly, but I would be surprised if they were refusing it. Maybe raise awareness of the product and it's effectiveness to primary care?

HairyPoppins Tue 24-Jul-12 22:55:49

~ We know Mumsnet is a good place to start (hence this thread!) but would you like to see a discount on Mumsnet for this product?
Yes, definitely!

~ Do you think it's the sort of thing you would buy or got to the GP for (if you were to experience this issue)? If not, why not? If so, why?
I've been to the GP, consultant, practice nurse etc about my double incontinence (suffered a 4th degree tear with a big first baby and poorly managed induced labour) but the NHS won't take it any further until after I have completed my family as exercises and physio have not worked. I've been advised that after I have reached menopause I will be considered for a tape operation but frankly I'll try anything in the meantime to try to improve my quality of life - and to find an alternative to the expense of incontinence protection. I'm worried that the longer I leave it, the worse it will get and that responsibility lies with me - if the health professionals can't help me, I will do everything to help myself.

~ Where else do you think it can be advertised?
I think some joint marketing with companies like Ann Summers would be useful.

~ What kind of message would be most persuasive to you?
Prevent long term problems, easy to use, improves confidence and sex life (see above).

~ How much do you think it would cost to buy?
Other folk on the thread have said £30, which I think is fantastic, although I am going to badger my GP for one on prescription this week.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
How to use it, how long you have to use it before you see results, how long you need to use it each day. What sort of results you can expect, what specific type of incontinence it might help with.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?
I've spoken about it with friends who have larger families - they look aghast when they realise I have this after only one child! I've spoken about it with one very lovely, non-judgemental friend but I'm not sure I could talk to anyone else about it in real life, not even my mum. So it still feels pretty taboo to me.

~ If you are too embarrassed to talk to your GP would you rather buy from a friend or alternative practitioner or through a toddler group contact etc?
I am beyond embarrassment with my GP now, but would probably buy online as a preference or in a shop like Ann Summers or Boots where they are used to selling potentially embarrassing items. If I can buy Tena Lady at the supermarket, I should think I would buy this device there too.

~ How do you think they could persuade more GPs to prescribe the PelvicToner?
Raise awareness of its existence, possibly via physiotherapists, health visitors or practice nurses.

Hopezibah Tue 24-Jul-12 23:13:41

I think Mumsnet and other online forums (including facebook) would be a good place to raise awareness and reduce the 'tabooness' of the subject. Using online channels and also in womens / parenting / pregnancy magazines to advertise the product with some advertorial type content would help women realise there is a product out there that can help them.

If it is available without prescription too - then a discount / offer would be good. I would expect the cost to be around the £10 mark.

I am guessing that GP's are not readily prescribing due to a) budget issues and b) not being asked for this product specifically (ie even if someone visits GP unless they mention they want this product, then GP might just tell them to do pelvic floor excercises without it or that things will just improve over time by itself etc).

If GP's are not on board, perhaps focus on midwives and health visitors to raise awareness amongst them so they can inform mums to go to the GP to get it.

I think there needs to be a combined push / pull marketing effort involved at least to start with i.e. make end users aware so they are asking for it and push via GPs/ midwives/ health visitors and through online sales / online websites / forums etc.

The kind of message that would be persuasive is that it is a common problem (i.e. you are not alone) and their IS something that can help and has been proven to help.

~ What information would you like to know about the product?
How to use it - i.e. if i was worried about using it - something that would reassure me that it is simple to use.

~ Is this the sort of topic you talk about in real life with other mums or are pelvic floor and bladder issues taboo?

yes - do talk about.

Try to show / demonstrate to GP's that this is a more cost effective route for them to prevent further (more costly) problems later on! so a bit of joined up thinking by the health service would go a long way in helping those with this problem!

AnnMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 26-Jul-12 10:33:48

Thanks again for all the comments - very useful for PelvicToner - am pleased to say turkeyboots has been selected as the winner of the £100 High Street voucher. Well done.

JugglingWithTangentialOranges Thu 26-Jul-12 11:27:08

Very useful for us all too - to have an opportunity to discuss this issue with each other.

AnnMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 27-Jul-12 07:53:23

excellent juggling....!

Kveta Fri 27-Jul-12 15:28:09

well I asked GP about it at my 6 week postnatal check, and she said she'd never heard of anything except pelvic floor exercises to deal with post childbirth issues.

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