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Do you feel passionate about the self-esteem of your child? If so, please share your thoughts with the Dove Self-Esteem Project (DSEP) – and you could win a £200 voucher - NOW CLOSED

(149 Posts)
AnnMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 30-May-13 15:41:08

The folks at Dove would love to hear your thoughts on their new Self-Esteem Project and the launch of their new online space packed full of resources, specifically designed to help parents build their girls' body confidence and self-esteem.

The new website is here: selfesteem.dove.co.uk/

Dove say, "Do you notice your daughter comparing her looks to others? While this is a normal part of adolescence, it can also be a slippery road for her self-confidence."

"Our ambition is for beauty to be a source of confidence, not anxiety. The DSEP was founded in 2004 to ensure the next generation of women grows up to be happy and content, free from misconstrued beauty stereotypes and the burden of self-doubt."

"Dove's aim is to improve the self-esteem of over 15 million young people by 2015. It is well on the way, having reached more than 11 million so far, but there are lots more girls to reach. And with more than half (54%) of girls citing their mothers as their primary role model*, Mumsnet is working with the DSEP to give mums the information they need to help raise their children's body confidence".

"In addition, Dove has also been doing a lot of work directly with schools - the DSEP made a donation of £250,000 to Beat (Beating Eating Disorders) to deliver free self-esteem workshops for 11-14 year old school children. Already, 152,175 lives have been reached and Dove wants to reach thousands more this year, so get your school to book a free workshop now by visiting www.dove.co.uk/en/".

School student, 14 year old Emily, shares her views on the workshops: "My view of beauty has changed massively - I now realise that nobody's perfect and everyone has flaws"

So have a look and let Dove - on this thread - know what you think. They are finalising the website now and want to use your feedback to help make it better. Please note your comments may be used to help shape future edits of the site and the programme.

Please state the age of your DD(s) when you respond.

~ What's your general feedback - is it user friendly? Is it helpful? What is good about the site, what's appealing to you/ your DD? Is it something you think you'd use? If so, how? If not why not? What's missing? What self-esteem issue do you think is not covered so well?

~ On the activities which are on this site, including (but not limited to) My Mosaic and Retouch Roulette - what are your favourite/ least favourite activities - and why? All activities can be viewed on the website.

~ Generally talking about self-esteem and girls - how - if at all - has this affected your DD? How do you and your family deal with it? What age did any issues start? Do you think the website would help your DD?

~ Parents of boys: whilst the DSEP focuses primarily on girls, it understands that boys are also affected by self-esteem issues. The DSEP will be working on dedicated materials for boys so Dove would love to hear your thoughts on how boys are affected by self-esteem or body image issues.

All comments welcome.

Add your feedback on this thread and you'll be entered into a prize draw where one MNer will win a £200 voucher to spend at www.experiencedays.co.uk

Thanks
MNHQ

* Source: Real Truth About Beauty Revisited - Dove Global Study 2010
Please note your comments on this thread may be used by Dove elsewhere.

findingme Fri 31-May-13 13:07:20

1/ The website is a great idea. I'm not sure about the layout but am rubbish at designing things so don't know what to suggest. It is slow to load (on work pc at lunch so I probably don;t have the right updates to play the games and load pictures). I think there is too much loading up on the front page - maybe have a "games" link on the front page with all the games on another page - etc. I do like the overall feel and colour scheme. Maybe it could feature more examples of "real" bodies and how everyone is different yet still beautiful.

2/ I couldn't get the Retouch Roulette to load, (probably my pc) but reading other people's comments, if the differences are subtle that is not going to get the point across as well as a big contrast. The mosaic one does look nice for the younger children. I don't think my DD would play these on her own but they are a useful tool for me to go through with her.

3/ I have a DD (9). Actually I have been having problems with her self esteem in these last couple of weeks. She thought she was "fat". To overcome this (thanks to great MN advice) I took her to see the nurse, who measured her and showed her where she was on the chart. She now seems a lot happier. If the Retouch Roulette could be improved to show more of a contrast between real and airbrushed, I would use this with DD. I will probably go through the articles with her.

PostBellumBugsy Fri 31-May-13 13:07:53

What's your general feedback - is it user friendly? Is it helpful? What is good about the site, what's appealing to you/ your DD? Is it something you think you'd use? If so, how? If not why not? What's missing? What self-esteem issue do you think is not covered so well?

Haven't had time to look in a very detailed way - but my overall impression is that it looks like the sanitary towel / tampon type leaflets that they used to give out to girls back in the 1980s. All floaty, wishy washy type colours. I don't like it. Also it doesn't navigate that well, there are better designed sites out there for young people*: *Doctor Wellgood or GoThinkBig being examples I can think of.

~ On the activities which are on this site, including (but not limited to) My Mosaic and Retouch Roulette - what are your favourite/ least favourite activities - and why? All activities can be viewed on the website.

Wanted to play Retouch Roulette but it wouldn't open.

~ Generally talking about self-esteem and girls - how - if at all - has this affected your DD? How do you and your family deal with it? What age did any issues start? Do you think the website would help your DD?

DD (aged 11) is very aware of appearance, clothing brands etc. She is also very aware of the girls who TTH (try to hard). I am constantly looking for opportunities to share stories with her about women who have succeeded outside of the world of fashion, television and pop music - as this seems to be the only women regularly portrayed as successful in the media. Self-esteem and self-respect are very much connected and I think that having respect for yourself and the things that you do is very, very important. I would love to see less focus on pop culture generally for girls, as there are some serious respect issues there.

~ Parents of boys: whilst the DSEP focuses primarily on girls, it understands that boys are also affected by self-esteem issues. The DSEP will be working on dedicated materials for boys so Dove would love to hear your thoughts on how boys are affected by self-esteem or body image issues.

Have a DS too & although he is probably more aware of fashion, labels & appearance than my brother or his father would have been at the same age - for some reason it is still very different for boys. Successful males continue to appear in a variety of forms*: *Jeremy Clarkson, Sir Alan Sugar, Bear Grhylls, Richard Branson etc and not just pop singers or television presenters. DS's self-esteem is more connected to what he does than what he looks like.

minesawine Fri 31-May-13 13:36:50

I think the website is great and as a mum of a 10-going-on-18 year old I will definately be showing it to her. It would be good to see more images of non white women and girls and show more diversity, including disabilities.

My daughter is obsessed with celebrity and becoming famous which really worries me as she does not think getting an education is important "because you don't have to be clever to be on X Factor!"

It is a worrying time and any help we can get to keep our girls (and boys) on the right track is greatfully recieved.

ouryve Fri 31-May-13 16:33:17

Well, I'm a mum to boys and my eldest has SN (well both do, but DS2's still at the happily oblivious stage) and he's reaching a point where he's really beginning to stand out from his peers in terms of maturity. Most 9 year old boys are sharing fart jokes and he just wants a tickle. He's never had a close friend. It's never bothered him until recently.

He's also very impulsive and I do worry about the effect on him of being surrounded by people exasperated by his behaviour. It can be a vicious cycle, sometimes.

hermancakedestroyer Fri 31-May-13 17:09:29

~ What's your general feedback - is it user friendly? Is it helpful? What is good about the site, what's appealing to you/ your DD? Is it something you think you'd use? If so, how? If not why not? What's missing? What self-esteem issue do you think is not covered so well?
Hoorah! A company that is acting to boost the self-esteem of young people especially girls when the media and society as a whole is so image conscious - well done Dove firstly! I thought the site looked appealing and was user-friendly. I think I probably would use this site and would certainly leave it on the computer for my daughter to explore.

~ On the activities which are on this site, including (but not limited to) My Mosaic and Retouch Roulette - what are your favourite/ least favourite activities - and why? All activities can be viewed on the website.
I loved My mosaic and the accompanying video clip. It is so true. You always critique yourself a lot more harshly than other people actually see you. Retouch roulette - a last a game which makes young people realise that celebrities are not always as perfect as they seem.
I didn't really have a least favourite activity.

~ Generally talking about self-esteem and girls - how - if at all - has this affected your DD? How do you and your family deal with it? What age did any issues start? Do you think the website would help your DD?

My DD is 10 years old and I've noticed as her body is changing shape she is getting more self-concious. She said to me the other day 'my thighs are so fat' I said 'why do you think that?' she said 'they are, look at them'. I said to her ' you have a strong body and your thighs are full of muscle because you play lots of sports and are a fit child.
This website couldn't have come along at a better time for us and I will be looking at this site with my DD as a way of starting conversations about self-esteem. I will also be recommending this website to friends with daughters so they can explore it as well.
I don't think I saw any but apologies if I missed it but it may be useful to have a game about healthy eating and also one about personal hygiene. I think eating healthily and having a good personal hygiene routine can also boost self-esteem.
Also writing a letter to yourself as if from a good friend and how they would describe you may be a good idea as an activity.
I liked the my mosaic activity and expanding on that theme it could have an option of 'what went well during my school day today' board or a 'what made me smile today' board or even a 'what I did today that improved my friend's day'.

Overall, loved it, loved it, loved it. Thank you Dove!

they sell skin lighteners ??

joy.

by the way it's not that people are 'insulted' by the stuff on facebook DOVE it's that it is glorifying and inciting violence against women and being a kick in the guts to women who have experienced. insulted sounds a little trivial to me.

however if you can sell skin bleach whilst running this kind of image/campaign your ability to see things in proportion and relation may be skewed.

HanShotFirst Fri 31-May-13 19:40:57

Oh please! Just be honest and don't treat us like idiots. Dove advertises products using their own definition of "real" women and "beauty" so that women and girls who don't fall into that very narrow aesthetic buy their products.

Dove are just angling for the next generation to start thinking that Dove are such a wholesome and great company who really, really care about how women feel and are empowering them to be comfortable in their own skin if you buy this Dove product.

I have two sons who are both under 5 and I want their self esteem to tied up in what kind of person they are (intelligent, empathetic, kind, accepting) rather than how they look and for them to put value in something other than looks when they look at other people.

starkadder Fri 31-May-13 20:37:59

Swallowedafly - yes, they do. All over Asia. Not just deodorant either (do a google image search) - also face cream etc.

Total hypocrites, actually. I don't usually get worked up about big companies but in this case...confused

ashesgirl Fri 31-May-13 22:30:38

Dove is trying to profit from women's insecurities, just in a different way. They're still selling beauty products whatever way you cut.

If you were genuinely concerned with improving young girls' insecurities, you would be teaching them to focus on other stuff rather than flogging them more beauty products.

And Dove's brand has been massively damaged by their inaction on the FBrape campaign. It was slightly embarrassing to read their stilted, impersonal cut and paste responses on their FB page. As Marketing magazine points out, the damage to their brand could last for years.

MarshaBrady Fri 31-May-13 22:39:53

I'm glad others think it's a dupe. Dove is one of the last places I would go to get information on how to boost my dc's self esteem.

ashesgirl Fri 31-May-13 22:43:42

Yep, marsha. In fact, I think it's awful they're targeting young girls under the guise of education. Really awful.

MarshaBrady Fri 31-May-13 22:47:49

Ashesgirl I know. Any commercial brand is itching to get younger customers buying into their spin. And as education, pah.

manfalou Fri 31-May-13 23:06:46

I do think its a good idea but having a teenage brother I know how much pressure he feels too about looks etc ...Would be nice to see boys featured too.

Fluffymonster Fri 31-May-13 23:10:56

I'm another one who was surprised and disappointed at the lack of action from Dove regarding the #FBrape campaign.

I saw its repeated promises of "aggressively" pursuing a solution, while not doing anything much (Aggressively looking the other way? Aggressively thinking about profits?) - when other high profile companies were pulling their ads.

It's especially disappointing, when Dove sells products aimed at women, and markets the brand as 'women-friendly'. You'd think a campaign regarding FB condoning domestic violence and 'humorous' images of women being beaten/killed, would draw stronger support from Dove apart from lip service, but this was not the case. Instead we had Nissan, and Nationwide amongst others, showing more support by removing their ads, while Dove stood by. Thanks a lot, Dove.

So yeah - any 'projects' it comes out with now, I think, "Yeah, it might be a worthy cause, but I take it with a pinch of salt as you're just doing it as a gimmick."

I do care passionately about my childrens' self-esteem, of course, which is why I wouldn't necessarily entrust it to a profits-driven beauty company like Dove (aren't they all - but pretending it isn't when in fact it so is, is utterly hypocritical). Dove, you are not a friend of women and therefore you are not a friend of my children.

goodasgold Fri 31-May-13 23:13:30

I don't buy that they care more about women than profits. I'd go for almost any other brand. Most of them don't peddle hypocrasy.

Cynical pile of duplicitous marketing shite.

Very shoddy behaviour by Dove over the FB thing too.

And they sell skin lighteners and are associated with the lynx brand? Blimey, what's not to like? hmm

ravenAK Sat 01-Jun-13 05:28:40

Still some big questions to answer about use of palm oil, too.

Not a company I choose to buy from.

Hands off my daughters with your faux-education marketing. As & when they need it, I can buy them other cheap skincare products with less hypocrisy attached.

The actual product's quite good; I have a free sample Dove cleansing bar which is an OK soap & not too harsh. But this campaign puts me off buying it tbh.

MardyBra Sat 01-Jun-13 06:44:04
oohaveabanana Sat 01-Jun-13 08:48:59

Dd is 7 & already much more looks-conscious than I was as a child, but currently very confident in general.

I am positive about the idea of helping children understand body myths in the beauty industry, but this wasn't doing anything great IMO.

I'm not hugely impressed by the site - hate the overall look, so girly and tampon-ad style, feels dated although I accept that might be back in fashion, had a few glitches with the basic usability ( am on ipad)

I wouldn't use it with dd, didn't see anything I felt was especially powerful or relevant, although I like the idea of activities you could email your child.

I thought the retouch activity was really disappointing. I've seen that issue tackled so powerfully before (using morphing techniques, giving more detailed examples) -the before photos were so small the differences looked very slight. This is such a huge issue, & poorly dealt with IMO. The videos I watched (eg bra one) showers very 'classic' looking girls - white, long hair, feminine) which I found disappointing in the context of the site)

I also very much disliked the overt self-sales (esp suggesting to girls that they asked their teachers to show the videos.) Tonally, felt all wrong.

oohaveabanana Sat 01-Jun-13 08:52:16

Eg women in the media article. Solid, if dull, content, but Illustrated with a picture of a very attractive, ad-style groomed mum & daughter - non white, admittedly, but otherwise exactly the sort of media portrayal the article is critiquing...

Ohwooisme Sat 01-Jun-13 08:58:34

Site took ages to load on my iPad and I lost patience with it. What I did see was styled like a tampax leaflet from 1992.

I love the idea of helping our kids with their self esteem but am cynical enough to realise it's a clever marketing ploy. I've a younger DD and an almost tween DS - they both need support with their self esteem. Also, I really didn't like this statement from Stacie - Dove is 'committed to creating a world where beauty is a source of confidence, not anxiety'.

What about brains? Musical talent? Strength of spirit? Kindness? Humour? We should be making our children realise they are fantastic individuals because of all the things they can do - not because of how they look.

Sorry Dove but I'm not buying it (and yes - you should have pulled your ads from FB. Those pages aren't just insulting, they're shocking and incited hate against your customer base).

ashesgirl Sat 01-Jun-13 09:17:48

As an alternative approach, I might give my daughter The Beauty Myth when she's older, rather than referring her to Dove's self-esteem website.

(Grrr, I'm so annoyed by Dove trying to get teachers involved in this nonsense, to flog their stuff to girls)

www.amazon.co.uk/Beauty-Myth-Images-Against-Women/dp/0099861909

MarshaBrady Sat 01-Jun-13 09:38:09

It's grim isn't it. Perhaps Coke can send in dentists to talk about healthy teeth. At least they don't pretend.

It was better when they did the 1/3 moisturiser line.

ashesgirl Sat 01-Jun-13 09:53:05

smile Marsha

Maybe we make this thread into things you can really do to raise your kids' self-esteem (and boys included, not just girls)

MNHQ - given this is a company that sells skin bleach please, please, please would you consider cutting ties with it and not allowing it to use this website as a marketing venue?

i appreciate you need advertisers but i'm sure there are others queuing up who wouldn't sully your reputation and image.

they market the idea of white is beautiful, black is ugly and then profit from that hideous idea - that's what sellers of skin bleach do. you sell diet pills by making women feel ugly for being fat and you sell skin bleach by making non white women feel ugly for having dark skin.

no company with any ethics or true care for women would be involved in the trade of this toxic crap.

anyone feel like starting a campaign?

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