Mumsnet Talk

This is crap. So crap. I don't know what to do, and desperately need some advice.

I am a regular on MN, but have namechanged for this, as it is "somewhat sensitive". Bloody understatement. I have 3 children - a 14 year old boy who has special needs - Asperger Syndrome, ADHD and Tourettes, to name a few. I also have an 8 year old girl and a 6 year old boy.

I'm going to start with the background. About 3 years ago my daughter (5 at the time) came to me and told me that her big brother had made her take her pants down and he had put his willy "in her bottom". Eldest always denied anything had happened. We spoke to our contact at CAMHS, who contacted Social Services who basically said "just keep them apart when you are not in the room". And that was pretty much that. And we have kept them apart ever since - or at least made sure they are never alone together in privacy.

Anyway - driving to school with my two youngest today and my 6 year old said "My brother makes me suck his willy". He said it has happened more than once, and that he also tries to make him use his hand on his willy. So... keep calm. We had a discussion about how eldest was naughty to ask him to do something like that, and that if anyone did again then to say No and tell me or a teacher. And then I dropped him off at school, and went to phone CAMHS for advice.

They haven't phoned back (I have phoned again, during the day). And I don't know what to do. I am so upset - I am upset for my youngest children, having had something like this happen to them - I am upset for my eldest too, because he is so odd and he is going to end up in prison or something and probably without a clue what he did to get there. And somehow I have to find something I can do to make it better. And I can't think what to do.

Could you call NSPCC?

God, how awful - what a terrible thing to hear. does your eldest son actually understand that this crosses a boundary? (I'm assuming so if he denied it last time). I think you need to keep pushing for Social Services/CAHMS support. Does your son have any kind of specialist (consultant?) who could push this forward?

Christ, what an awful situation to be dealing with. Can you phone social services? Presumably they will need to be involved at some point quite soon anyway, and they may at least have someone there at this time.

IMHO, Don't panic Bm. Keep your eye on the kids tonight and ask to speak urgently to the SENCo at your son's school tomorrow. He needs someone who is very familliar with Aspergers and development to explain to him that although certain things may feel 'nice' they are not things he should do. The nature of Aspergers means that people think with their initial feelings and need help to rationalise. Ask your SENCo to support you in getting help; he/she should be familliar with getting through to useful outside agencies.

I think he does know that it is "wrong" - but it is a difficult concept for him - doing something wrong. It is as if he doesn't realise you shouldn't do things that are "wrong", just that you need to find out that others don't find out about them. If that makes sense. I truely believe he has never felt remorse for anything he has done - just been (very) upset at having been found out.

I haven't even mentioned this to him yet. I know he will say "I didn't - X is lying. Why don't you believe me. You don't love me. I might as well be dead. etc etc..." It doesn't get me anywhere. So I wanted advice from CAMHS about how to even broach this in a way that will mean something.

I cannot understand why they haven't rung back. I even told them what it was about

What an awful thing for you to have to deal with. As someone else asked, do you see a consultant or ed psych or someone with your eldest at all? Maybe they could help - if not directly, by referring you to someone else - ds1 is asd and we see hospital consultant every 6 months or so, although she stresses every time that we can phone and arrange to see her at any point if we need to.
How are your two younger dcs coping? Maybe there is someone at their school that could help you....the Learning Support staff at ds's school have been fantastic, and v good helping ds2 come to terms with his big brothers difficulties.
I hope someone comes along soon with a bit more advice for you, you must be worried sick.

I suppose there is no immediate urgency. Now that I know there is a danger I can just make sure that eldest isn't in private with either of the other children. I just thought that via CAMHS was the way to approach this, as then when other agencies get involved it will be from a mental health/help for eldest angle, not just focusing on the youngest.

I really don't want to talk to the SENCO. I don't want to tell anyone who knows eldest on a day to day basis. It will change how they view him and interact with him. I haven't even told my husband - he and eldest dfon't have an easy relationship, and I think my husband will go in all guns blazing and make it all worse. I wanted to get advice before involving him too.

It is such a bloody mess.

The consultant he sees is with the CAMHS team.

Am I going to have to tell the children's school? Youngest isn't traumatised or anything - just thinks it was icky. Whilst my heart breaks that something like this has come into his life, at the same time I don't want to make it something huge and deeply traumatic for him.

I am so very sorry. I would go to your GP they may be able to push for access to services for you. He/she may also be able to talk with your husband about this with you. I don't really know what else to say and am slightly astonished by the lack of longterm support / follow up offered previously.

You need to call social services.

I'm saying this as the parent of a child with autism myself - I don't want you to think I don't understand I do, but at the end of the day your two youngest children have both told you he has done inappropriate, sexual things to them. Regardless of his condition, what message are you sending them by not acting immediately on it?

So what is the bedroom set up? Has this been happening at night? Or have you not identified when this could have been happening?

Is your DH his bio dad? It's a possible police matter isn't it... Or does SN mean it isn't? God, I don't know... But ss will hopefully be able to help. This is a hard one, and I really feel for you

I would let people who care for your younger ones know, because they may disclose it/discuss it, with other children? Just a thought

Um please don't take this the wrong way but please don't minimise what has happened to your youngest. At this age he may just think its 'icky' but that is not how he'll feel about it when he's older. Please don't be offended by that but I think your youngest do need an outlet to express what this means for them not just the impact it has on your eldest.

Regardless of whether the 2 youngest don't seem disturbed, you need to do something now. Imagine the effect on them when they get older and realise what happened, and that you didn't take action immediately.

Can you call the consultant directly? I think your eldest needs someone to advocate for him, whilst you look after the interests of your youngest children. I don't think you can be objective and handle both.

I did act immediately, though. I phoned CAMHS immediately.

We had social services contact first time. They didn't rush out to see us the instant they were told about the issue. They spoke to me on the phone, ascertained there was no immediate risk to the children and made an appointment to call later in the week.

I am taking this seriously, and I am willing to have contact with whatever agenices are necessary - but I didn't call SS during the day as I was expecting CAMHS to get back to me as soon as they could. I didn't realise that they wouldn't call back today. Honestly - I don't understand why they haven't called back. I told them what the issue was, and I rather thought they would consider it urgent.

But having missed office hours today, I'm not sure that SS will think it reasonable for me to call out-of-hours for this.

Maybe you should talk to your DH tonight?

But in bald terms you have 2 children who have disclosed to you they have been sexually abused. At what point DOES it get serious enough to ring the out of hours line?

It's a horrific situation for you and all 3 of your children, but I would call to tonight.

lilac - they each have their own room. In retrospect eldest has been inviting youngest into his room to play quite a lot recently.

It is easy enough to keep them apart - it just never occurred to me that it was necessary. Now I know better.

But I need to deal with this somehow - for all of them. Although when youngest said what he did this morning, my daughter said something along the lines of "Yeah, when I was little X did something to me. I can't really remember what, but that lady came to talk to us."

I just - I can't articulate this well enough, I think. I have so many conflicting things going on in my head. I don';t know what I am thinking or doing.

You really need to prioritise protecting your 2 youngest from the (alleged) abuse. You are a great mother for trying to correctly address this with your eldest but the victims of the abuse should come first I'm afraid.

They are very serious allegations. I don't want to scare you but is it possible that the silence from CAMHS is because they will be involving other authorities (ie: the police)?

You haven't caused this to happen and you are doing your very best to deal with the situation, you sound like a "goodmammy". But please - two separate allegations of penetrative sexual abuse of children under 7 - your babies need protecting from this and help with any ongoing trauma they may have.

I know, PA. I do wish I hadn't waited for CAMHS to ring back. I just thought it was the right way to tackle it. I still think it would have been if they had rung me back.

.

Ok - I am going to wait till the children are in bed and my husband is in plugged into his computer, and I will ring the NSPCC for advice as a first step. If they advise getting onto SS immediately then I will. Whatever they suggest I will do.

Your son disclosed to you and you still took him to school?

Phone the police.

I think you need to call the ss team on duty, I really do. The younger two take immediate priority and they are both old enough to remember that conversation in the car today for the rest of their lives.

If it were anyone else you would have called the police wouldn't you.

You are in a terrible situation and my heart goes out to you, but you need to act.

I agree camhs may have passed this on to ss or police already, and it would look much better if you contacted one of them yourself, and made a complaint about CAMHs lack of action maybe. They haven't acted so you need to.