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Possible Semantic Pragmatic 3 yr old DS

(19 Posts)
Lcf123 Tue 25-Feb-14 12:36:51

Hi - Im new to all this and looking for people who have found themselves in similar position. My DS has just turned 3 and doesnt really have speech. Since turning 3 his eye contact, pointing are a lot better, he has a great sense of humour and enjoys making us laugh. He makes dinosaur noises and car noises and makes noises when pointing to things but the range is limited. Physically he is great and can hold a pen well and can scoot like a 5 year old. NHS are still on language delay but private SALT has suggested semantic pragmatic as a possibility. Seeing a paed in a few weeks. He attends nursery and loves it and they say recently has become more interested in the other kids.

I have tried doing a couple of signs with him but he is not the slightest bit interested - anyone have any experience of this?! Yesterday i tried the more sign and he actually playfully hit me to show I was irritating him!

Its pretty heartbreaking to think about your child having difficulties sad Are there any positive stories from people who have been in a similar position? I just hope some speech will come and he will manage to go into mainstream school.

Any other bits of advice appreciated.

autumnsmum Tue 25-Feb-14 15:09:56

I wouldn't worry about being pushed to a special school all children have a right to mainstream . I say that as a parent of a special school child

Sleepywoman Tue 25-Feb-14 16:33:30

Hi - he sounds a bit like my DS last year when was 3

Now is in reception and happy as he is well supported

Language has progressed lots in the last 12months

I found the afaisic helpline useful and the book it takes two to talk
Also make sure he has had an up to date hearing test

Could try a pecs course ( they have a website) to learn about communicating with pictures (held all over the country)

skuntoo Tue 25-Feb-14 17:42:28

My ds is 27 months and has no speech I've started Makaton signing with him in October and he's doing quite well now has about 25 signs he was a bit slow at the beginning but has made loads of progress now!!!
We have found signing very helpful and he signs with his sisters which is lovelysmile

We've only just started this process with him paed mentioned global delay and SALT mentioned dyspraxia but paed wants to see him in 6 mths time X

MummytoMog Wed 26-Feb-14 11:53:07

DD had very little speech at three, but has lots and lots now at 4.5. Growth in speech coincided with her glue ear being sorted out and starting nursery, although reception made a massive difference again. She has other interesting traits, which make it unlikely for the glue ear to be the only reason for her speech delay, but she is so much more talkative now that I could have imagined eighteen months ago.

zzzzz Wed 26-Feb-14 14:56:43

Hi my ds is now 8 ( almost 9 ). I'm confused as to where you are in the diagnostic process. Semantics pragmatic disorder is a very "old fashioned" dx and I'm wondering why your SALT is suggesting it?

For us signing/pecs weren't particularly helpful as ds1s issue was language, so it didnt really matter what that language was (ie pictures/signs/verbal) it was much the same difficulty we hit against.

I'm surprised given reduced pointing and eye contact, socialising, minimal language, etc that he hasn't been assessed for ASD.

As for positive stories, grin , my ds1 is lovely and from minimal language at 3 (numbers, colours and some animal sounds, moo, woof etc), he now can make himself understood, read, add, ride a bike, make jokes, is loving and kind, handsome and appealing ...... I may be a little bias but yes things are much easier and more positive than early days might have suggested.

Why do you want to ms educate your son?

Lcf123 Thu 27-Feb-14 06:46:32

Hi I think my SALT is just suggesting that's where the main issue may lie. He no longer really has issues with pointing and eye contact it is more language and possible social. He also has good understanding. I understand that spd is no longer diagnosed and we are really just starting any diagnosis process. I can see what a long hard road it is.
Thank you all for your comments. It will be fab to hear my son speak even if disordered!

Does anyone have any tips on potty training?

zzzzz Thu 27-Feb-14 13:40:01

The thing with the talking is you just get greedier and greedier grin the more they say the more you need them to say more.

ds1 didn't present very autisticy as a toddler, but is more so now. i don't think i realised how very cuddly and loving and engaged autistic children can be. i also don't think i fully understood that some children are only mildly effected with routine/social/etc and more heavily in a verbal way. I'm not of course saying that is the issue, just that the common perception of withdrawn rigid very disabled children is not the face of autism i have come to recognise.

potty training ds was more difficult than his siblings but we managed before he turned four. for many children it is much later though as language/communication hugely impacts the process.

i moved a video up to the room next to the toilet. Turned it on, gave him huge amounts to drink and then took him to the loo every 15 minutes, ALL DAY LONG. He got it by the end of the first morning. i read books and mnetted. we used to sing 'In the loo, in the loo, peepee poo, peepee poo, in the loo" to the vindaloo football music. its useful because tunes often cut across language issues and i can hum it as a prompt. we also say "trousers down, pants down, peepee down" ds found that funny. grin

MummytoMog Thu 27-Feb-14 14:25:45

What's he like with numbers/letters? We've had hyperlexia mooted as a diagnosis, as DD was obsessed with letters and numbers from very early on, and could read both from about eighteen months. She had basically no receptive language though, no expressive language at all at two and a few words by three and was incapable of following directions. Never pointed until we taught her, poor eye contact outside the family, rigid on certain matters of routine and clothing, very keen on rocking and spinning, that sort of thing. Most of those tendencies have now disappeared with the growth in language.

DS is also a late talker, but is robustly neuro-typical. It may be that late talking runs in the family and DD is just a little odd on top of that. Or she may be somewhere unusual on the spectrum. If she had spoken early, we would be quite convinced she was an aspie, but as it is we're operating a wait and see policy.

MummytoMog Thu 27-Feb-14 14:44:35

DD potty trained before she was really verbal - at 3.5. We found that she needed a blanket wrapping round her on the potty to feel really comfortable, lots of reward (stickers worked for her) and praise, consistency and not going out much for a couple of weeks. We had tried a few times before, it wasn't a one hit wonder. But once she got it she was dry day and night with no fuss. We've had two accidents *(night time) in a year since, and this is the child who used to wet herself at least once a session (three hours) at nursery.

Lcf123 Thu 27-Feb-14 16:31:26

Thank you for the replies. My thought is that he will be diagnosed on the spectrum. I think we have found it hard to think that may be the case because he is very affectionate and has a great sense of humour but having a better understanding now of asd I can see how you can have social and language difficulties and still be loving etc. It's a very interesting area. He is only just 3 so I am going to leave the potty training for the moment. I have some potties in the house and he knows what they are for but says no if I ask him to sit on it! He also has no inclination to tell me he has done a poo so I'm hoping that might come later.

On another note has anyone else had a bad experience with nhs salt assistants? They all seem to be very patronising. The nhs salts seem lovely though.

Lcf123 Thu 27-Feb-14 16:39:00

Re numbers and letters not that interested. He can find his name at nursery though.

The singing for potty training sounds like a good idea. And he loves chocolate and any sweet snacks and can be bribed with food in most situations so will definitely be using bribery! May also buy an iPad as he is obsessed with grandmas

zzzzz Thu 27-Feb-14 16:49:08

iPad is brilliant.

Mine learnt colours/letters/numbers easily.

Music (different tunes/sounds for different activities) was a godsend for ds1. It is also very unobtrusive. For example I said "ch ch ch" as we went upstairs. So if we were out and about I could be chatting away to a friend and say "let's go upstairs" and he "ch ch ch" under my breath to ds1. That way he could tag along with what was going on.

Swimming lessons and holidays help enormously.

MummytoMog Thu 27-Feb-14 19:04:38

I loathed Mog's first SALT with a passion. Absolutely hated her. She was patronising and agressively promoting an autism diagnosis before she had spent more than ten minutes with her. Subsequent therapists were wonderful though.

I did snap with an EP once and point out that she was bound to be a bit unusual, given she has a family history of exceptionally gifted children (who grow up into basically average adults), engineers, mathematicians and musicians. I mean we're all on the spectrum somewhere after all, and he kept suggesting that we should manage our expectations for her. I have reluctantly conceded she may be a scientist. I will learn to live with it if so.

zzzzz Thu 27-Feb-14 19:30:58

I disagree that "we are all on the spectrum". Individuals who are autistic are on the autistic spectrum.

MummytoMog Thu 27-Feb-14 21:38:54

I thought that the point of the spectrum was that it ranged from neurotypical to severely affected, but if I'm wrong, I shall stop using it that way. At any rate, what I meant by the comment (but didn't express clearly really) was that most of DD's family is on the spectrum in a non-neurotypical way somewhere. DH is face blind for example, my youngest brother has Aspergers and another brother has severe ADD. I don't want to speculate about myself, but it has occasionally been mentioned that I lack social we're not perturbed by unusual social behaviour, in fact it never bothered us in the slightest that DD was 'bizarrely independent' until SALT started wittering on about it.

zzzzz Thu 27-Feb-14 22:32:18

Yay! I am from a more "eccentric" family than many.

No "the spectrum" is not nt to severely autistic.

"The Spectrum" refers to the presentation of deficits.

So for example my ds is severely language disordered, compulsive but not very obsessive, has very good "emotional" awareness (ie better than nt), has few social skills.

A more Aspergic presentation might be very verbal, with very poor emotional maturity/recognition and extreme rigid thinking.

Both have the same condition, one might be your Dr/lawyer/accountant, one might stay home.

Both if they have average or above intelligence would be described as "High Functioning".

Lcf123 Fri 28-Feb-14 13:55:22

Hi zzzzzzz
You make some interesting points
re your kids learning now from the iPad - is that with you interacting with them with certain apps or them playing on their own? I worry I will use the iPad for a bit of peace too much if i get one!!!!

swimming lessons and holidays help - do you mean the stimulus these give to encourage the communication? Its really interesting as at Xmas we had real change to the routine of our life and visited loads of people/stayed with the grandparents and it did coincide with a change in DS.

Do they go to bog standard swimming lessons. My DH and I are quite sporty and DS shows good co-ordination, loves kicking a ball so now even more keen to encourage him doing any sport if he is going to have other difficulties.

zzzzz Fri 28-Feb-14 14:06:37

iPad is as good as the apps on it and the parent controlling it.

I wish ds had had one at 3. We've had one for 2 years and he got his own at Christmas. There are some great apps available. Use the cloud and only have some apps available at a time. Avoid ones that have big "prizes" and funny noises for right/wrong. The montessori ones are particularly non stimmy and peaceful. Buddy Bear do some more language/ASD specific ones.

Ds1 makes huge verbal/social jumps if we go on holiday. The impact is more than other therapies, but obviously sounds like you just like holidays grin. For us it knocks him (and us) out of routines and stretches communication.

At 3 public swimming lessons should be great as he will be toddler stage anyway. Our local leisure centre is the single best place ds has been to. I remember saying to the swim coach "he will need more help than the average child, what if the other Mothers object", he replied with a smile and said "well I'll just suggest they do private lessons". grin

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