Please note that threads in this topic are removed from the archive 90 days after the thread was started. If you would like your thread to be retrievable for longer than that, please choose another topic in which to post it. Our SN area is not a substitute for expert advice. While many Mumsnetters have a specialist knowledge of special needs, if they post here they are posting as members, not experts. There are, however, lots of organisations that can help - some suggestions are listed here.

Goose and Carrot, 6th Sept. End of first week drinkies!

(161 Posts)
Galena Fri 06-Sep-13 18:18:25

Let me open the doors today. All welcome!

We've had a good week. DD has started school and seems happy enough - a far cry from the insecure, screamy child who wouldn't let me leave the room for 5 minutes a year ago at preschool.

Apart from that, not much has happened... Still waiting for confirmation of her op, still waiting for report following complaint from her mri...

moosemama Fri 13-Sep-13 18:40:34

Likewise Claw, good to know neither of us - or our dses are alone with this.

Have a good weekend. smile

claw2 Fri 13-Sep-13 18:36:36

Keep, doh I mean Moose, keep is on another thread! defo time to log off, im going mad!

claw2 Fri 13-Sep-13 18:35:04

Exactly Keep, I am really hoping it has only been just over a week, that they will get the hang of ds! Ds can chat for England about things he wants to talk about, when anxious he clams up, sits quietly and withdraws, which in the past has equalled 'aww such a quiet, well behaved boy' grr!

Thanks so much for the ideas and always nice chatting to someone who knows exactly what I mean smile. Im off for the weekend, hope you have a good one.

moosemama Fri 13-Sep-13 18:29:09

Ds couldn't explain what the problem was, let alone how he felt about it and why when he first started out. It was a very gradual shift over the first 18 months/2 years, then he seemed to improve in leaps.

Your ds always rating above 5, sounds like exactly the same tactics ds started using last year. He learned there was no point in telling them anything other than he was ok, because never understood, let alone sorted the problem out (he had a nice, but particularly useless and insensitive TA last year and his teacher was on a mission to prove to me that he didn't have ASD hmm).

It should be different in a decent school, as hopefully they'll learn that they will be heard and steps taken to help them with their anxieties and/or problems, but the trust has to come first and I guess both our boys have a long way to go to build that in a whole new school with staff that are effectively a bunch of strangers.

... and of course it all starts with someone recognising that just because they know a lot of words, doesn't mean they can communicate effectively ...

claw2 Fri 13-Sep-13 18:14:24

Thanks, I will write the feelings diary down for upcoming meeting, sounds like it might be worth a try.

They have tried an anxiety school with ds in previous school, as usually they balls it up, by not understanding the purpose of how to use it. If ds rated below 5, he was asked to explain why, the problem is he cant explain why, so he did the same and always rated above 5 just so he didn't have to explain! Which meant to school yay ds isn't anxious hmm no it doesn't! The purpose was for ds to be able to express his anxieties to you, he is doing it, so its not a success argh!!

moosemama Fri 13-Sep-13 17:58:49

The only thing that worked to help ds1 with his 'the worst day every' 'hate school' attitude was introducing a feelings diary that he had to fill in morning, lunch and afternoon. It took him about 18 months to two years to start actually being able to identify specific emotions, prior to that he just used an emotion scale. Then he gradually learned how to tell his inclusion worker why he felt the emotion he identified and by the end of the third/beginning of the fourth year in the process he had started to recognise that he felt different emotions throughout the day and perhaps it wasn't 'all bad' then eventually he started splitting the morning, lunch and afternoon records down, as he started to recognise he was feeling different emotions within those chunks of time - which was massive.

The whole process took years, but it really has helped with his emotional regulation and understanding and also to open up to specified members of school staff about his anxieties.

Unfortunately in y6 the arrogant staff felt it was unnecessary and as a result he clammed up completely and wouldn't tell them anything. He started putting 5 - Feeling OK for every single entry, because he said they never helped him sort out problems anyway and they didn't want to understand things from his point of view. Sadly, he wasn't wrong. sad

claw2 Fri 13-Sep-13 17:27:24

Yep that sounds the same as ds, then this bad lesson will become 2, then a bad experience in PE (another SN boy throwing a basket ball in his face) according to ds 'on purpose, because he was angry', then something else and something. Ds will hang onto these bad experiences, regardless of any good experiences, hate school and not want to go. THIS is what he needs help with!

The pattern tends to be ds starts off well, then it goes downhill (not necessarily schools fault, but ds's perceptions of events)

I will try and pop over to the new thread later and have a read.

moosemama Fri 13-Sep-13 17:04:14

Claw, saga continues on the new Goose and Carrot thread - unfortunately.

Glad you are able to contact the SALT directly. Hopefully she will be willing to listen and actually go back and read his reports properly. Good luck.

My ds is exactly the same - one bad lesson and he hates school. Ds wasn't asking for help (he shares an LSA - well two actually depending on the lesson - with 2 other boys) because they've been told not to speak in class. I told him to put his hand up and wait and he said there's no point because if you put your hand up they tell you to put it down. (I can almost guarantee he's seen this happen maybe once in the week he's been there and it became 'fact' in an instance.)

We were given a contact book last night as well. Prior to that I had no way of communicating with his LSAs other than a tiny little box in his homework diary. That was full after day 1!

claw2 Fri 13-Sep-13 16:57:17

Moose the fact they let him off school premises is terrible and to think I only asked the LA yesterday about school transport too. Your ds sounds similar to mine.

On the plus side, SALT has given me her email address and I can contact her directly and spell it out for her, in the nicest possible way of course! Previous schools and SALT did whatever to keep me in the dark to cover their backs, so 100% improvement, in as at least this SALT is being open and honest and feeding back her opinions.

Ds came out from school today saying he hates school because he hadn't understood the maths work and couldn't do it, despite raising his hand (whether he did or not, im not sure, probably not) no one came to help him or explain the work to him (he is supposed to have a named TA). So I am assuming he did none or little work in maths, but nothing is written in his contact book.

But still as you say 100% better than previous schools, at least I have a contact book, that will be replied to. So hopefully even if they are not initially seeing his difficulties, once pointed out, they will become more aware.

moosemama Fri 13-Sep-13 16:09:19

Summer - sorry momentary lapse, damn my holey brain. I know your not in the UK so why did I suggest a walk in centre? <<slaps own face>>

BigBlue, thank you. Dh has spoken with the SENCO and the LA transport woman this morning.

SENCO said it absolutely should not ever have been allowed to happen and it's basically a 'hands-up' we take the blame situation. She has promised it will never happen again and systems will be in place by pick-up this afternoon to ensure that is the case. Part of the problem has apparently been because the taxi escort is supposed to collect her cohort from the school and escort them to the taxi, but has so far failed to shift her butt further than opening the door. There are a group of LSAs that accompany the pupils to their buses/taxis, but when they couldn't see the LSA yesterday the older boy told the group they had to go to the pick-up point without her. Then they disappeared into the melee of nt pupils headed home to the normal bus stop, which is next to their taxi point, so no-one realised they shouldn't have been there.

LA transport lady has emailed all the complaints to the taxi firm (to create a written record) and is following it up with a phonecall. They will then be given a short time to fix everything and if they don't official action will be taken to sever the contract BUT she said not to expect a response from them before next TUESDAY and still hadn't sent the email at lunchtime today! angry

I am not happy about this at all. Imo what has happened in just one week amounts to a total neglect of their duty of care towards ds and the other children on his route. Both the SENCO and LA lady said there have been fundamental safeguarding failures on more than one occasion and imo that is enough to instigate immediate action.

The taxi firm have been caught out lying between us, ds, the school and the LA (as in they've told us all completely different stories about the same cock-up) and if they are willing to be that blatant in their disregard for our dc's safety they shouldn't be allowed to look after (and I use that term very loosely) them. I honestly don't know how they expect us to continue putting our dcs in the so-called care of these people without definite reassurance that things will be done properly from now on. In fact I doubt there is much they can say to reassure me that this firm will ever be capable of doing the job properly. Blooming LAs and their bureaucratic nonsense. angry

PolterGoose Argentina Fri 13-Sep-13 16:02:49
moosemama Fri 13-Sep-13 15:53:01

Claw, I know exactly what you mean. The single biggest problem, other than the fairly predictable teething troubles, we've had with the new school is their failure to recognise how little ds understands and that, just because he uses big words and sounds like he knows what he's talking about doesn't mean he has a) understood a word you've said or b) actually understand the implications of what he's said and that's without getting into the fact that he can parrot back to you what you just said word-for-word and still not know what you've said or what it means. I really hoped this school would see past his overall impression and having read his statement (which isn't at all bad) and accompanying reports, actually taken his barriers and limitations into consideration.

In ds's case the fact that we've spent the past 4 years working really hard, along with EP and Inclusion to teach him how to express his emotions better also seems to have confused them. Not that he has actually managed to express an emotion, opinion or idea there yet, as he doesn't feel safe enough. (He saves it all for me! wink) In my experience it will be a good year or so before he starts to trust them enough to open up - and then only if they support him properly and give him a reason to trust them.

It's still a great school, million times better than sending him to a local ms academy and most importantly - he likes it. They are lovely to all the pupils and give each child time and space and the chance to move forwards at their own pace, rather than steamrollering them, but it seems I had unrealistic hopes/expectations based on their constant reassurances at transition meetings that everything we was saying about ds's anxiety/emotional awareness and social skills was commonplace at the school and something they are experienced in handling. sad

Trying really hard not to judge to harshly and give them a chance before I give up hope though and things have had improved as the result of one phonecall to the SENCO (I put had, because things had improved until they let him off school premises unsupervised last night. angry)

bigbluebus Fri 13-Sep-13 14:29:30

Oh moose so sorry you are still having issues with school transport. What happened yesterday is inexcusable both on the part of the school and the taxi firm. I hope the LA manage to sort it out quickly.
I am so glad DD is on a LA bus - at least then the staff are definitely all CRB checked and have had training.

SummerRain Netherlands Fri 13-Sep-13 14:13:10

Moose, our ooh doctor system isn't convenient or particularly useful and I can't use a different gp as our medical card is registered to this practice. He's still complaining of his chest being sore and says his throat isn't so I really don't believe it's tonsillitis.

Claw, he sounds like my ds1. Amazing vocab and language skills but when it comes to expressing his emotions, using imagination or having a reciprocal conversation he struggles. The CAMHS SALT recommended he didn't need CAMHS at all and should be discharged based on his salt assessment hmm Luckily his psyche disagreed!

claw2 Fri 13-Sep-13 11:43:23

Oh dear Moose, I despair I really do, all recommendations from EP and CAMHS etc and his statement is that 'his learning plan should be informed by SALT' and that ds 'requires continued access to SALT and involvement with IEP targets and planning meetings' and 'one to one support on structured programmes devised by SALT'

His statement is crap, I finalised to get him back to school and get indie school named. I was hoping they would be helpful in identifying/supporting his SAL difficulties. Even if his statement was quantified and specific, whats the point if SALT is going to continue with 'oh he is fine', im betting he would make amazing progress is a very short period of time, if she cannot even identify/understand the difficulties in the first place!

Ds cannot express himself, which is why he self harms and then cannot attend school, regardless of whether he his vocab is advanced or not (he uses some good words in context, doesn't know what they actually mean though!). I was hoping this would be seen as a big difficult and barrier to his education. Not some 'oh he is fine'!

moosemama Fri 13-Sep-13 11:16:14

Claw, I'm thinking we are going to get the same response to ds's Indie School SALT assessment.

We got a letter home to ask if we gave permission for her to see him and a form to fill in detailing our concerns. I explained how Community SALT had discharged him without assessment because he has an advanced vocabulary and no functional speech problems, but that the OT at the ASD assessment unit felt he needed SALT input, as his vocab belies his lack of comprehension and he is too literal with phonic rules, so often mispronounces simple words - which has led to teasing and bullying in the past.

Haven't heard anything back yet, but I'm expecting the same as you, quick chat and 'oh he's fine'.

Sadly I think the only way to get any SALT help for ASD related comprehension and social language skills is to pay for it yourself and go private. hmm

claw2 Fri 13-Sep-13 10:58:05

Blimey Moose things are going from bad to worse, you have had a tough week.

Good luck Sally

I feel a bit deflated after indie SALT 'assessment' this week. Ds started at his new indie school and I was so pleased they were on the ball and ds had an indie SALT appointment. I was given her email and told to contact her for feedback. I thought brilliant, communication and more than happy to give feedback.

Her feedback was she carried out an informal assessment of ds (so they had a chat) and she cant see any difficulties and he has an advanced vocabulary, was the jest of it.

hmm she obviously hasn't read any of his reports or bothered to find out any of his difficulties and his vocab a few months ago was 'at the lower end of the scale' when formally assessed.

He has been out of school for a year with school related anxiety, due to confusion around the school environment and social interaction and self harms as a result (all written in reports)

So he has no difficulties because he can answer questions about what colour hair he has, talk about his interests etc and name his 6 brothers (he only has 2 brothers!)

Not the end of the world and hopefully nothing that cant be put right, just disappointed, as I had high expectations. Having more of a eye roll moment!

moosemama Fri 13-Sep-13 10:52:23

Summer, could you take him to a walk-in centre for a second opinion?

Hazey, I am beyond exhausted, physically, mentally and emotionally and the anger keeps rising up in me and taking hold all over again every time I think about it all. I'm so jittery, I just can't settle. It's a horrible feeling and I feel so weak and impotent, as there's very little I can do to effect the necessary change, which makes it 100 times worse.

As usual the LA procedures for getting rid of the taxi firm are over-bureaucratic, long-winded and ridiculously, lengthy. So nothing is going to happen any time soon. Apparently they have to give the firm chance to sort things out and redeem themselves in the first instance, but we have proven this company is happy to bare faced lie and put vulnerable children at risk and that they've broken almost all the LA's Code of Conduct rules that their contract relies on - even right down to the blooming dress code! There's no way they are going to do anything about the situation. What they are going to do is come up with even bigger lies to try and cover their tracks. angry

moosemama Fri 13-Sep-13 10:44:32

Poor dd. I can totally understand why she lied about talking to the other girl and to some extent an LSA is like a teacher to kids. I know ds classes every adult in the school as teachers, excluding perhaps the dinner ladies. He certainly sees the LSAs as Teachers.

Semantics really though, they are adults who are there to support your dd and should bloody well know better. Frankly if they are that rude and insensitive they are in the wrong job.

Good luck with the meeting. I'll be keeping everything crossed you can make them understand how much they have let her down and what they should be doing to support her.

Our letter went to the LA by email last night, then we had to send an update this morning, because - as predicted his 'usual' hmm driver and escort are on the regular 'long-run' this afternoon (same as last Friday) so he will have a different driver and escort yet again. They failed to tell me this when I directly asked them last night, so dh confronted the escort this morning and she confessed that yes, they are on another job every Friday afternoon. angry

Dh emailed the LA officer again this morning, told her the above and pointed out that not only is ds, not traffic safe and highly vulnerable/trusting of strangers (as per his statement) due to them constantly chopping and changing drivers, if someone had driven up to him at the taxi stop last night and told him they'd been sent to pick him up he would have gone with them without a second thought. Both the school and the taxi firm put him at very real risk last night and it's totally unacceptable. angry

The thing is, without his LSA to actually hand him over to the escort, he could actually just get in any car that was waiting at his pick-up point. In fact, even with the LSA there that still has the potential to happen, as it's a different vehicle, driver and even escort nearly every pick-up, so unless she checks their credentials and paperwork every afternoon, how the hell does she know they're legit?

We were very lucky the older boy was with him, but even he waited almost half an hour on a busy A road before decided to go and tell a member of staff and what would have happened if he'd been off sick or something. I shudder to think. It actually makes me feel sick with worry when I think about him out there, completely unsupervised and vulnerable. I don't want to keep handing him over to these people every day - they are neither reliable nor trustworthy, but I have no choice, because I can't get him there. [Why don't we have a ridiculously stressed and terrified emoticon?]

hazeyjane Fri 13-Sep-13 10:26:16

Oh, poor dd, Sallybear. Hope you get some results from the meeting - thinking of you and sending kick arse honks your way. (This is literally where you kick someone in the arse, causing them to honk - it is something I would like to do to many professionals)

Moose, i am stunned buy what is happening to your boy. You must be exhausted and furious,i hope you can sort something out for him.

Zzzzz - wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee - honks for a speedy recovery.

Flour boy didn't explode, but has left a bruise (I am one of those delicate flowers that bruise if someone breathes heavily near me though).

Have vowed not to have any of dd's friend's back for several months though.

SummerRain Netherlands Fri 13-Sep-13 10:18:40

Oh dear Sally, the poor thing probably just wanted to pretend it was all over. I hope the meeting goes well.

Had ds2 at the docs this am. Usual GPS both off so a locum who claims his chest is clear (now I could hear wheezing just by putting my ear to his chest and he's complaining of chest pain so I'm not convinced) but he has tonsillitis apparently hmm Now I've had tonsillitis many times and he doesn't show any signs of it at all, hasn't complained about his throat, no hoarse voice, he's not coughing up phlegm, he hasn't got a fever. I'm not convinced but he's on abs so hopefully they'll tackle whatever bug is affecting his chest. I'm going to bring him back once the regular docs are back if his chest is still bothering him though.

Galena Fri 13-Sep-13 10:09:10

Oh bless her, I bet she meant to and desperately wanted to but just couldn't. Good on her for thinking about it though. Hope the meeting goes well, sally.

PolterGoose Argentina Fri 13-Sep-13 09:53:47

Hope the meeting goes well Sally and you get the result you and dd need flowers

SallyBear Fri 13-Sep-13 08:29:48

So it turns out that DD lied about speaking to the girl in question. Sigh.... Also lied about teachers making personal remarks; it was other students and a LSA. We are still having a meeting today, because she is obviously very conflicted about school and also feels extremely vulnerable. Kids.......hmm

Gosh, what a lot I've missed.

moose your poor DS! I can remember having kittens when my NT DS1 was accidentally left behind by the school coach at their swimming lesson, but he was already 11 and not particularly vulnerable. I shouted at the headmaster! blush

zzzzz great news at last. God luck with the healing process. X

I'm so tired! Job is fine, but very busy and I'm on my feet all day. No time to do any gentle housework or shopping without having the boys. (Job is 9-4 each school day.) I'm finding I've very little time to MN. sad I'll try to pop in on this thread each week, at least. X

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now