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Help again guys with 'bullying'

(62 Posts)
claw2 Tue 15-Oct-13 21:53:59

Ds has been reporting to me almost daily about the same 3 kids hurting him and calling him names etc.

Ds previously reported to me a girl in his class keeps pinching him, slyly on the backs of his arms as they line up for class.

Also younger boys were chanting 'ds is an Indian' and 'ds is a loser' in the playground, which ds tells me was witnessed by another boy

I reported to school, school just said 'girl x can be tactile' and nothing about other incident.

Monday ds reports same girl x, pinching the back of his arms on 2 separate occasions and also that she grabbed his arm, twisted and bent it behind his back in the playground. He says her 'hurting' him is a daily thing. Same again today, pinching him as they line up.

Ds also says same younger boys are intimidating him, he says every time they see him, they stare at him until he looks away or puts his head down, insult him 'baby' and 'loser' until he runs away in the playground, then they leave him alone. If they see him in assembly they poke out their tongues. Ds is scared of them and tries to avoid them.

I reported to school again and have just received a reply to my email 'surprised if girl x indulged in this sort of behaviour, as she is a kind hearted person and its out of character for the boys' Then a few lines about what a good, jolly day ds has had, with only a slight incident at the end of day, with ds getting a headache'

I know that ds has sensory difficulties, I know that ds can misinterpret the actions, intentions of others etc, etc.

I need to approach this differently as just reporting what ds reports to me, isn't working. Ds obviously needs more support than he is currently getting with unstructured times.

Ds has just literally just come downstairs with blood smeared all over his face, where he scratched and cut himself and smeared it on purpose on his face. Told me he is 'sad because of PE and people being mean to him'

What do I do?

hoxtonbabe Tue 15-Oct-13 22:02:47

They would be surprised if the girl indulged in that type of behavior?

What kind of stupid and unhelpful response is that. I have no idea what to do as I would initially be thinking hes not going back until they pull their finger out but that is easier said than done...

Oh dear Claw, it was really sad reading your thread angry

PolterGoose Tue 15-Oct-13 22:08:11

Poor ds sad

I really think that you need a two pronged approach, request the bullying policy and keep reporting the incidents to school, at a point of your choosing you may need to escalate it to governing body or whatever the equivalent is, I do think you need to teach ds a response, like my ds's laughing at the bully, and acting oblivious. I did a lot of work with ds, including role play, on how bullies need a reaction, if you give no reaction or a confusing reaction they will stop in time. My ds doesn't understand the nuance of it all so it's a case of treating it like an anthropological study, using language he will get and translating it into real life. School could stop the pattern of behaviour by allowing him to enter the class without lining up, staying in at playtimes etc. you could in fact ask them to do stuff to break the pattern.

claw2 Tue 15-Oct-13 22:13:52

Ds clearly needs some support, whether he has misinterpreted or not. I think I just need to ask for that support outright. Im just not sure what support to ask for.

claw2 Tue 15-Oct-13 22:35:20

Polter ds has learnt a response to ignore them. However he is just so timid and passive, his body language and demeanour tells a different story.

His self esteem is rock bottom, he is always crying in front of the other children, he is so overly nice. Kids just pick up on the signs and he is a prime target for other kids, regardless of what he says or does at the moment.

So many areas to work on.

PolterGoose Tue 15-Oct-13 22:49:10

It's just so sad claw, is he not getting support at all at play and unstructured times?

wetaugust Tue 15-Oct-13 23:09:23

Claw

When my DS was at school he used to come home and complain on a daily basis that he had been bullied.

When I asked him who was bullying him he wouls say Boy X, Boy Y, Girl A etc.

It seemed to me that the whole class was bullying him and, as it did not fit with my perception of a bully being one child who picked on another, I found it difficult to believe him.

School also said he wasn't being bullied - he just perceived he was being bullied.

And this situation prevailed until a bunch of thugs (his school mates) broke his nose.

School then had to stop lying and admitted that he was being bullied by virtually the whole class, who had all decided he was "different" and could be picked on.

What I am trying to say is that I agree ASD children can overstate things and be over sensitive BUT.... there's also a good chance that he is being bullied to the extent that he's describing - just like my son was.

I think it's come to the stage where you need to ask for more support. I hate to say this but now the self-harming has started again it needs to be nipped in the bud - by additional support, if even just untyil he's over this hurdle.

Stay vigilant.

claw2 Tue 15-Oct-13 23:14:49

No Polter. I signed him up for 2 lunch clubs to get him out of the playground, but he doesn't go, he forgets, doesn't know what time to go, where to go etc and no one is reminding him or helping him to get there. I will be ordering him a digital watch with an organiser, so an alarm will tell him what time to go.

PE is another example, he ends up crying at the start of the lesson and barely joining in. Ds is very clear about he cries as he is the last one to get changed (again no one helps him to change), when he gets to PE the lesson has started and he is just expected to go and join in. He says he doesn't know what to do, he wants to hear the instructions that everyone else hears at the start of the lesson.

Simple let him get changed 5 minutes before everyone else, so he doesn't miss the instructions, is what was agreed. His TA actually argued against it! Saying getting changed wasn't the problem, he was often distracted and 'hung up' on other things that had happened during the day and slow. HT insisted on it.

His TA is crap, is the impression I am getting. His TA says he will remind him of lunch club, but doesn't. His TA says he will give him a list of books to remember etc at the end of the day, he doesn't. His TA says he will come up with a plan for ds to access after school club, he doesn't.

wetaugust Wed 16-Oct-13 00:40:32

Claw

The disorganisation and distraction you described is classic ASD behaviour.

The TA is not doing their job at all.

When my DS finally got back into education (after his breakdown) he had 1:1 support throughout the day. In fact he had 1:1 support from the moment he woke up in the morning until late into the evening. That support was only gradually withdrawn over a period of 3 years.

That's the level of support that's required when the anxiety is very severe. When that support is not there there anxiety increases and you're into this spiral of self-harm and ever-escalating anxiety.

I think you have to ask for full-time 1:1.

claw2 Wed 16-Oct-13 07:15:47

Wet, your poor ds. This is ds's 3rd school. 1st school although ds might have got confused over the kids names, he was 5 at the time, he was 100% accurate when he described being hit with a stick, being bitten, being strangled etc, etc and had the marks to prove it.

In his 2nd school, the bullying was not so severe, but he was able to describe it clearly and I saw in the playground, the way other kids looked at him when he approached, walked away when he tried to talk to them etc, etc teacher reports of having 'no particular friends' etc. His reports of no one wanting to be his partner, no one wanting to sit next to him, name calling etc I believe were accurate.

I believe what he is telling me. Everything else he has been reporting in this school, that he was crying in PE, struggling to do x,y,z has been confirmed too. Yet ds is getting a rep for being 'unreliable' with his version of events. He might get confused with knowing how people are feeling and some other things, but he does know that someone pinching his arm, is being mean.

As with other schools its impossible to prove. The kids are not about to own up to doing it, some kids are sly and know not to do it when adults are about etc.

I tried sticking to my guns and insisting that ds wouldn't 'lie' in other schools and it got me no where. CAMHS haven't helped with their diplomatic approach, ds has told them he is bullied and what other kids do. This transpires to be 'ds's perceptions' and 'ds feeling persecuted by others' as I suppose they cannot prove it either.

So I have to run with that, until such time as I do have proof.

claw2 Wed 16-Oct-13 07:47:17

I emailed the school last night basically saying that ds struggling with more unstructured times, play and scratching as a result, is not uncommon and a long standing issue. CAMHS identified he often feels persecuted by others (rightly or wrongly) due to his difficulties and he uses scratching to alleviate his confusion and tension.

I have asked if we could take some steps to break the pattern, regardless of whether it is happening or not, especially as it is resulting in an increase in self harming.

Given some suggestions and asked they deal with it by providing additional support. I will see what they come back with.

At least this school is good at communicating and seem to want to work with me, as oppose to the previous 2 brick walls of schools.

Ds's statement is really, really crap and it seems that everyone thought, including this school, that just attending there, with smaller classes would be a magical cure for ds.

Ds starts his 6 week SALT assessment next term and at recent meeting, there was lots of what can be put in place for next term.

Talk of anxiety scales, which ds cannot or will not use. We have tried various ones over the years and none work. Ds is terrified of getting into trouble, so will just continuously put a smiley face or not rate below 5 or colour the whole week green.

PolterGoose Wed 16-Oct-13 10:15:39

Are these NT kids bullying him claw? because they will have the skills to do it and get away with it. Keep informing the school, keep working on building ds's confidence (he needs to find his inner tiger or whatever animal analogy might work!), keep pushing for his TA to do his job properly.

It does sound like he wants to go to this school, and he's made friends, which is amazing so quickly, I'm really impressed.

claw2 Wed 16-Oct-13 10:57:43

Yes Polter they are 'nt' as far as I know. Ds does regard 2 boys as his friends, the boy who helps ds to tie his apron etc and stuck up for him (having met him, I think he may have SN's or learning difficulties, but I don't know for sure). Ds has really taken a shine to him, he asked could he buy him a birthday card yesterday and wrote in it that he is one of the best friends ever! (although it was a pink, quite girly card that ds chose and the boy wanted to paint it blue!) and another boy who does have ASD, who at first ds found quite 'in his face' and unbearable, but he has kinda forced his way into ds affections and he is growing on ds!

Ds is also really enjoying the company of the much older boys so far, in his school taxi and has spoken very positively about them and his experience.

Ds is much happier about going to this school and isn't refusing and his self harm isn't as bad as it could be. So lots of positives.

I just feel its a constant battle to help school to try and understand ds and why he does the things he does. I know its early days, however left totally to their own devices, im finding that understanding isn't growing, quite the opposite.

Simple things like ds not being able to manage to do work because of his rigid thinking and inability to move past that. Its a common problem in ASD, they must have encountered before, they must have a framework for dealing with it, USE IT, instead of telling 'just got on with it' when he is clearly unable to.

Or comments like 'what do you want me to do about it' when he reports that girl x has pinched him, rather than investigating or helping him to make sense of it.

PE - ds is very, very clear about why he is getting distressed and crying and most of it is so easy to deal with, with really, really simple strategies. In fact ds is very, very clear about most things that distress him, listen to him, make a few simple changes, instead of keep brushing him off and thinking of it as 'minor' and 'things he will have to learn to cope with' YES but he needs some help from you to learn!

PolterGoose Wed 16-Oct-13 11:15:46

I know claw although my ds's expressions of anxiety are different to your ds's their needs at school are quite similar I think. It's just small stuff, always the small things that make a huge impact. At the moment my ds is staying in at play times and just watching the fish tank and doing some sort of 'monitoring' confused but just that one thing, which requires no extra resources, is making his days far far better. It has always infuriated me that my ds's needs really aren't that complicated and not even particularly unique, but when ignored the consequences are so very damaging.

I do really feel for your ds, he is trying so hard.

wetaugust Wed 16-Oct-13 12:07:04

Ds's statement is really, really crap and it seems that everyone thought, including this school, that just attending there, with smaller classes would be a magical cure for ds.

I think you've summed up the problem there Claw.

This word 'perception' makes me so angry angry as it's the standard excuse that schools use to do fuck all.

Everything DS reported was 'perceived' until he received a non-perceived broken nose - probably because all the previous bullying had not been dealt with effectively and so the stakes increased.

It is possible or even desirable to ask for a reassessment of the Statement?

claw2 Wed 16-Oct-13 12:36:37

Part of the proviso I put on finalising the statement was that it be reviewed in 6 months. Which is why its so important to me that school understand ds.

My hands were tied, ds was getting too distressed during assessments and assessments had to be stopped, other assessments were out of date. So LA EP could only write about how distressed ds was and that she couldn't do assessments. LA then wrote to LA SALT who had discharged ds 2 years earlier.

So statement basically says that ds has no needs and sets out what he doesn't need! Its probably the most bizarre pile of crap of a statement ever issued.

I have just spoken to CAMHS and she is going to phone school, as she feels they 'need to focus on the bigger picture' but couldn't make any suggestions. She has just spoken for half an hour on the phone to me and said absolutely nothing! I suspect she will do similar to school.

Ilisten2theradio Wed 16-Oct-13 15:41:16

There are so many little things the school could do that might help considerably. Like being at either the front or back of any lineing up with a teacher at ta to help him and watch to ensure no bullying. A ta in the lunch hall to sit with/near your Ds and keep an eye on things and alternatives to playtime. My Ds had one lunchtime in the computer suite one with a small group of other childrenplaying team games one with a ta and others playing board games one day with a ta in the playground for him. At morning break the teachers on duty were instructed to keep a special eye out for Ds. It all built up over time and much nagging on my part but it shows if the school are willing it can be done.

claw2 Wed 16-Oct-13 16:53:27

I have received a reply to my email 'I have investigated the girl x matter and it turns out that girl x did indeed pinch him. This was rather shocking' it then goes on to say that she has been spoken to and they have been told to stay away from each other for the time being!

I suggested that ds be allowed to go first or last in line. Apparently he can go 2nd, as another SN boys already goes 1st and he cant go at the back as this is girl pinch's place as she is last on the register. So they line up alphabetically and ds is always in front of her.

I also asked when the 5 minutes extra to change for PE that was agreed at the meeting would be given. No answer to this.

Playtimes - I asked if ds could be given some help to access lunch clubs, twice a week, as he forgets, doesn't know where to go etc. No answer to this.

Also seen as most of his anxiety revolves about playtime, particularly lunchtime break. I asked on the days when there are no lunch clubs, if he is feeling overwhelmed/confused by situations at playtimes, is there an alternative at these times. He replied he can go sit on the chairs in the reception! hmm thanks a bunch!

wetaugust Wed 16-Oct-13 17:29:10

This is all good stuff Claw - although it may not seem so.

You have an admission of bullying.

You have evidence that they haven't got a clue what to do with him at 'unstructured times' when there is no lunch club - that's good for future purposes as we all know that sending him to sit in reception is not a suitable solution - for a variety of reasons.

What I would do is acknowledge their response and reiterate the questions they did not answer.

It seems that putting it in writing via email is the way to go. You then have something substantial to beat them with (and to show to future Tribunals if necessary)

Keep chipping away.

claw2 Wed 16-Oct-13 18:14:53

Wet I was hoping that a school would finally 'get' ds and help me get the support ds needs!

Still I suppose I am trying to run before I can walk. Statement review will be in June, date is set already.

School seem to be of the opinion 'that there will always be something causing ds anxiety' (in a he will just have to deal with it kind of way)

I agree there will always be something causing ds anxiety and so do CAMHS, which is why CAMHS are going to ring school and suggest they look at the bigger picture and see where they can offer support.

If all they can offer is a chair in reception to support ds when he is feeling anxious/confused by unstructured times, im disappointed.

claw2 Wed 16-Oct-13 18:55:47

I just mentioned to ds about sitting in reception when he is feeling 'sad' at playtimes. Ds has said he would much rather sit in reception at EVERY break time, rather than go in the playground.

PolterGoose Wed 16-Oct-13 19:00:19

claw what Wet said, an admission of bullying is a damn good start and is what you need, it is proof. My ds had a year of sitting at a little table in the reception area by the receptionists at play and lunchtimes before he got his LSA, he loved it, it was peaceful and he could read or draw and was allowed to choose a friend to take, he always had several volunteers. It sounds wrong but it might work.

claw2 Wed 16-Oct-13 19:49:59

Most definitely a good thing on different levels too. Other schools would cover it. It has given me an ounce of sanity back, as strange as that might sound, it is a relief to have it confirmed that it isn't just ds 'perception' constantly. It has given ds some creditability.

Ds has jumped at the chance to sit quietly in reception and has asked can he read. He does similar in social situations at home, goes to his room and lines things up, calms down, joins in for a bit, then off he goes again its his coping mechanism.

wetaugust Wed 16-Oct-13 19:56:05

Why do you have to wait until June for a statement review Claw when you said earlier that you'd agreed a statement review after 6 months? June is 10 months from the start of the 2013 school year.
By June everyone will be getting ready for the summer holidays so people that you may need won't be around.

It might be useful to print part of the email and give it to your DS so he has 'proof' that he's allowed to sit in Reception. That should make him feel less anxious in case he is challanged for being there.

I'd still write that email asking them to answer the questions they've swerved. Build up your written evidence.

When DS was at his worst I used to have to micro-manage absolutely everything down to the nth detail. Used to drive me nuts. Still does at times smile

lougle Wed 16-Oct-13 20:52:56

I agree with wetaugust. June is too late. Sorry you're having to gear up for another fight.

claw2 Wed 16-Oct-13 21:02:43

They don't appear to be getting the idea of ds using the reception when he is feeling overwhelmed or uncertain etc. They have asked that ds choose between morning break or lunch break and spend the other in the playground.

claw2 Wed 16-Oct-13 21:04:34

Wet I hadn't even realised, its written on ds's statement, I will have to check.

Just school sent me a letter for a June.

claw2 Wed 16-Oct-13 21:07:17

Just checked covering letter with statement its early March, not June.

Seems school have just scheduled his review for June. I will put that right.

wetaugust Wed 16-Oct-13 21:16:36

You see Claw - it's subtle. You'd think that being an indie they would be on the side of the parent wouldn't you. But in this case their paymaster is the LA. Why upset the LA - why not just delay the AR by a few months. Assists the indie school too in case the LA withdraw him for the final term.

Or am I getting a bit too conspiracy theory here?

claw2 Wed 16-Oct-13 21:26:18

Not at all Wet, the thought has crossed my mind plenty of times.

The LA had SS involved, I suspect to get their hands on my medical files and any other info they could possible use. This back fired on them rather badly and they couldn't really get out of naming indie school and they named it without any fight whatsoever. Literally all I did was ask.

However ds's statement identifies no needs and the provision provided in it could be met by any MS school anywhere without even using a budget!

I was honest with the LA/school and told them I would accept statement on the proviso that it be reviewed in 6 months, as without any needs identified etc they could remove the placement at any time. School were to monitor ds needs etc closely for review.

wetaugust Wed 16-Oct-13 21:31:39

Go with the flow Claw. You'll have an opportunity to get some real 'evidence' into the statement at the March review.

I think it's going to be a case of chipping away by email - as this has proved effective. Don't worry about coming across as over-engaged - so what!

claw2 Wed 16-Oct-13 22:07:25

I have stated that I am keen to resolve issues before they escalate, given ds's long well documented history it is very clear that issues escalate extremely quickly with ds. One minute school are reporting ds is fine, happy and farting rainbows, the same day i was called to go pick him up and take him to A&E for emergency mental health assessment and im on suicide watch. I think I am being totally reasonable.

I have checked in with CAMHS to cover my back and they are 'encouraging' close home/school contact and feel it is it vital for this transition period to go smoothly and be successful etc. We all know, how everyone likes to follow expert advice!

The LA will have to remove this placement from my lifeless claw like hand Wet grin

claw2 Thu 17-Oct-13 20:47:58

Another email today stating that the 2 boys had admitted to it to! School have dealt with it and the boys have apologised to ds smile

Such a relief that they have taken it seriously and review date has been changed and date given.

PolterGoose Thu 17-Oct-13 20:55:30

Blimey, claw, it's all go for you this week, horrid that ds has has to put up with the crap but to actually have him proved right is a humongous leap forward, this bodes well for him being believed if there is a next time.

wetaugust Thu 17-Oct-13 23:08:25

Even better Claw. You now have 2 episodes of bullying by diferent children evidenced by school. And school does seem to be taking it seriously - good.

Blimey, what a rollacoaster you're on.

It all sounds so nerve-wracking, though overall so much more positive than before.

Keep going. Are you sure you don't want to accept your nomination? You've done amazingly well and are an inspiration to many no doubt, plus really, though 100x better, it is still tough, scary and all-consuming.

claw2 Fri 18-Oct-13 06:37:11

Thanks guys.

Rollercoaster sums it up well Star, not so much for me, im pretty used to it , more so for ds.

He is so confused, one minute he is happy, next he is in tears. The last two nights he has been breaking down in tears. Last night he broke down and told me 'mum ive been scratching again tonight' I asked him if he knew why and he told me 'he was sad' and I asked did he know why. Yes he is scratching because his cuts make him sad. He was then saying he hates his autism and if he didn't have it he wouldn't cry in PE because he cant do things.

He did bring home a 'trigger sheet' yesterday, all the kids did one at circle time. It is rated 1 to 5, at 1 it says things that annoy me a bit, 4 things which make me upset and 5 things that make me angry etc, etc. So kinda like a feeling chart rated 1 - 5 with different feelings.

All of his were a 4 'things that make me upset' when I don't know what to do, school, bullies, my family being hurt, my cuts and my cat dying is what he has written.

That is a first EVER that he has written/shared his worries with school.

I really didn't know what to say to ds last night, apart from trying to reassure him and giving him a hug.

claw2 Fri 18-Oct-13 07:36:52

Ds is really struggling to come to terms with his autism and how he may/may not be different ad how this affects him in terms of things he can/cannot do.

I believe this the root cause of ds self harming and all the other behaviours are obviously secondary to his autism.

1. How do I sum that up better and ask school for some counselling for ds?

2. How do I help him with this at home?

PolterGoose Fri 18-Oct-13 09:51:04

Have you ever tried any of the Dawn Huebner books?

TBH I'm not very trusting of counsellors, I prefer to do what is within my capabilities myself, using resources like the Huebner books. It terrifies me that someone could fuck up ds and I also have control issues hmm

I'm going to try and get some training in Solution Focused Therapy through work, I already use some of the concepts with my clients, but I think it could be good with our kids with HFA and AS especially.

claw2 Fri 18-Oct-13 10:43:36

Yes we have when your worries get too much. I have also read the out sync child, cant eat wont eat and quite a few other books.

Ds wants to know specifically/exactly how his autism affects him and to be honest im a bit stuck on that one! and how best to help him understand.

For example he was saying that if he didn't have autism, he wouldn't cry in PE. I told him everyone cries, not necessarily about PE. He then said but everyone else can do PE, why cant I. There are lots of reasons, he is obviously a smart kid, but still a kid and im struggling to put into child friendly terms, without making him think that he has SO many difficulties. By telling him about the whys and all his difficulties, it would make the situation worse, not better.

claw2 Fri 18-Oct-13 10:44:40

I will have a read of your link later, ive got a dentist appointment now. Thanks.

PolterGoose Fri 18-Oct-13 11:07:53

TBH claw I'm very matter of fact with ds about his abilities, maybe it helps that me and dp share most of ds's 'foibles' and traits between us to varying degrees so we can use our own experiences. So, for example, me and dp are also crap at sport, hated PE, I was kept off for sports days (as were my siblings) because of my anxiety, I don't hide this from ds or try to make it all seem ok. Thankfully he isn't competitive so doesn't care about not winning, he also knows that like me he has hypermobility which means PE will always be harder. But he's aware that a lot of the kids who are good at the things he's not good at find other things harder than he does.

I am quite open about why certain things are harder for him and why some things are easier. He himself has said that he's glad he has Aspergers because he likes having obsessions, at the same time last night he got in a state about friendships and after much effort in my part to convince him that a number of kids in school are his friends, with him convinced they are not for reasons that only make sense to him, in the end I said "ds, because of your Aspergers you find social stuff harder and I know that they are your friends, because I know what a friend is, but I think we need to do some work on friendship, because X would be really sad if he thought you weren't his friend, in half term we can work on this, ok?"

Ds was dx at 6 and we've always talked about his difficulties in the context of his dx's. it's probably just luck, not something I've done, I just muddle along really.

Will your ds read stuff about his dx?

wetaugust Fri 18-Oct-13 11:31:56

Claw

It's good that he's finally able to articulate some of his feelings.

He really needs to be seen by a child and adolescent psychiatrist. Ds saw the CAMHS one every month for about 6 years. It was really useful for him to have someone to discuss things with plus the psych was able to offer medication when he needed it.

Is there any chance that you could make a forceful request to CAMHS for this?

The other useful thing could be the NAS Befriending service. If he were to get a befriender who was quite young it could be a good 'big brother' - DS has an NAS outreach worker who's about 8 years older than him and exactly on his wavelength. It really helps him

claw2 Fri 18-Oct-13 15:45:03

Polter he will read stuff, but he kind of doesn't think that's him, he cant relate to it. He has started to blame autism for all for his difficulties, which is right, it is responsible for his difficulties, however he really resents it for the same reason. So we have a vicious circle, he scratches because he is sad and is sad because he has autism and difficulties.

I have tried explaining that everyone is different, everyone has different strengths and weaknesses etc. Ds has a very old head on his shoulders in some respects and he is thinking about the future and sees it all in a very negative way. 'He is always going to have autism, he is always going to have cuts, he is always going to have difficulties'

I have told him that things can improve, but it seems what I say isn't enough. I think he needs professional help to come to terms with it.

Wet he is still under CAMHS and I think I could probably insist on them seeing him. I am worried about him, I can this spiralling in depression etc in future. NAS actually gave me a list of ASD counsellors, maybe they would be worth a try?

PolterGoose Fri 18-Oct-13 15:54:27

An NAS approved list sounds like a good place to start. Medication might be worth considering too?

You could try some of the solution focused techniques because its all about looking at the now and the future, and concentrates on what you can do. It's very powerful.

claw2 Fri 18-Oct-13 16:13:35

Thanks Polter, im very anti medication, probably because I don't know much about it. I suppose if/when the time comes, i will know the time has come and I might have to rethink that and do some research.

I have just spoken to CAMHS again, the woman dealing with ds's case hasn't even met ds, she isn't a child psychologist, she is a psychiatrist and has just been there in an advisory role since October last year. She said she will look back on ds notes from when he had a year and half's worth of therapy and speak to the team, about what they offer ds.

I will see what they come back with.

MariaBoredOfLurking Fri 18-Oct-13 16:47:46

The 'annual review meeting' is often a bit of a farce: it's just advisory anyway, and if any useful proposals come out of it, there's not much to stop them being ignored.

Legally, the actual AR is done by the LA officer sitting at her desk, doing the meeting write-up & deciding whether or not to amend the statement. So your planned meeting in June will result in an AR date in July (if you're lucky). If the LA did want to try any silly business, the imminent summer holidays would facilitate that.

You can keep the 'annual review' as planned. And still have a meeting to rewrite the statement meanwhile. Technically, the meeting you're after would be an interim review, see page 6 and is additional to the AR.

MariaBoredOfLurking Fri 18-Oct-13 16:55:18

Going to reception at break (providing he's ok with that) is a very quick and unarguable way to demonstrate that he has delayed social-communication skills. Maybe the reception TA could pop over to his class to 'teach' rapid PE-changing skills? She might be far more effective than you in enforcing/persuading her colleagues that he 'needs 5min extra'

Reception TAs often walk on water, as a minimum they're the acknowledged kids-getting-dressed experts, and schools like to keep their expertise in-house wink

MariaBoredOfLurking Fri 18-Oct-13 16:59:10

Got it! Get school to set up a CAF for when the interim review is due, and then 'helpfully' remind the LA they've forgotten the review, school can then magnanimously offer them the chance to combine it with the CAF.

wetaugust Fri 18-Oct-13 17:03:35

I was very anti-meds too Claw and it was the psychiatrist who suggested it.

Once we hit on the right med his life was transformed. He would need to see a psychiatrist before meds could be prescribed. He must be one of the most severe needs that CAMHS deal with - so the psychiatrist should really be seeing him regularly.

passedgo Fri 18-Oct-13 17:11:59

Hi OP, it seems that the root cause of your son's problem isn't the autism, it's the response he is getting at school. If a school cannot or will not promote and insist on an inclusive environment for all its children they are failing in their duty.

His behaviour at home is a response to the bullying at school and for that reason I would do what I could to remove him from the situation. The school must make reasonable adjustments to ensure your child has access to the curriculum. If he is unhappy and effectively making himself ill, mentally and physically, he is not getting full access.

I would go so far as to say that the school is committing institutional neglect if it thinks that disablist bullying is something that can be tolerated among pupils and ignored by staff.

Sorry if that's a rant, I get very angry when I see schools ignoring this type of thing.

PolterGoose Fri 18-Oct-13 17:55:08

claw in the Huebner series there is also 'What to do when you grumble too much: a kids guide to overcoming negativity' It's the next one we are going to do.

Something else recently that's helped ds see himself from another perspective is dp reading him the Hitchhikers Guide books and when Marvin the Paranoid Android says something typically Marvin, dp will make a comment about how it reminds him of someone wink and when ds does say a typically negative thing which is completely ungrounded we might mention that he is 'doing a Marvin', ds is starting to see how his negativity looks.

claw2 Fri 18-Oct-13 19:28:48

Maria, AR is in March, I can always appeal if necessary.

He sits in the reception with the receptionist. Its all a bit pointless ds having to choose between morning and lunch break in advance when he is going to feel overwhelmed! Ds jumped at the idea, but it will solve nothing.

Cant really set up a CAF, ds is already CIN and all professionals involved attend.

claw2 Fri 18-Oct-13 19:47:13

wet im not ruling meds out, meds were mentioned when he was 5, at that point I wasn't jaded and feeling optimistic! I declined as I felt it could be sorted out with appropriate support in school and from professionals. 4 years, 2 SA requests, one tribunal, one NIL, one crap statement, let down by professionals later it might well be an option. I still have a few things I would like to try first, if possible that is, depending on ds's state of mind.

I am now beginning to think there will always be something that makes ds 'sad' until we deal with him coming to terms with himself.

passed school have sorted it out now. They have informed me that it did happen etc, etc and this is by far not the worse school I have encountered. In fact, once they realised it wasn't ds 'lying' or his 'perception' they have been very good about it.

claw2 Fri 18-Oct-13 19:56:37

Polter ds cannot take constructive criticism of any kind. Since his break down last year, his state of mind is still very fragile.

There are so many areas that need working on and CAMHS are right, everyone needs to start looking at the bigger picture ie addressing all his needs at the same time for any support to have a positive impact on ds, including CAMHS!

wetaugust Fri 18-Oct-13 20:04:28

I think you're right to demand more than you are currently getting in the way of help from CAMHS. Talking about it regularly to a psych is a really good outlet.

You're doing a great job Claw. Don't despair. I was where you were once and now things couldn't be more different. It will work out.

MariaBoredOfLurking Fri 18-Oct-13 21:58:04

CIN can still have a TAC wink

How're they gonna do the AR in march with a school meeting planned for June then? Tho it wouldn't surprise me if you were the only one who'd noticed the obvious timetabling error...

claw2 Tue 22-Oct-13 09:05:48

Thanks Wet CAMHS are going to get back to me after their 'team meeting'.

Maria sorry I think I have confused you. AR is in March. School tried to schedule AR for June, as this was the date on the letter from LA, however despite LA letter being dated June, contents of letter stated AR to be held in March, not June, as agreed with me. So AR will be held at 6 months, not a year.

We have been having TAC meetings since last year. Last meeting a couple of weeks ago, social worker ended her involvement. Only professionals involved are CAMHS and they attend all meetings anyhow.

This is so sad to read. I've followed your threads and was delighted to see things seemed to be getting better. Is this indie school a mainstream school or do the other children have SEN too?
I know you want to find the right school for ds. I wonder what he gets out of school and whether long term home ed would be the way forward for you.

claw2 Tue 22-Oct-13 19:20:08

It is indie ms school with specialist provision on site. They also 'specialise' in HF asd, which ds is in many respects, although his dx is of general ASD, not HF. They have a high ratio of children with SN's, although not exclusively. Although ds doesn't currently get access to all the specialist provision on site YET, due to his crap statement.

He is starting SALT involvement next term, 1:1 with SALT which apparently shows 'moderate need'. He also benefits from the smaller class size and a named TA. So school are giving quite a bit, so far which wasn't specified in his statement.

Given where ds was a year ago, ds really has made massive improvements. I think where the baseline was extremely low, it sounds like he is doing terribly now, where he really is doing much better than before.

A year ago, I wouldn't have got him out of bed, let alone to school without him self harming and threatening to kill himself. He was refusing to engage with a home tutor at all or get dressed. He was just sitting, ignoring her and refusing to even talk to her, she at one point wanted to quit.

I haven't ruled out home ed, I would just like to give school a proper go first, as ds has never had any appropriate support in school before, ever. If im honest, I do think ds could benefit so much from a school environment, given the right support.

It's so difficult and I'm sorry for sounding negative. The school should be able to help him. It sounds like they are trying but it also sounds like they are a long way from getting it right for him. I think we are conditioned into thinking that school is essential for our kids, that they have to learn how to fit in to society and that school is the place for them to learn this. I just think some people are simply not going to be able to stuff themselves into round holes and for them school is largely damaging. I don't mean to say that this is my opinion of your son, just my feeling about school.

claw2 Tue 22-Oct-13 19:58:50

You don't sound negative at all Shopping, just realistic. I agree school might well not be the place for ds and home ed might become the best option, if this school doesn't work out.

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