Here some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on SN.

To apply for statutory assessment or not.

(44 Posts)
armani Wed 15-May-13 17:11:23

Dd is in yr2 dx with global learning difficulties and poss adhd. She is currently working on p levels 7-8, so significantly behind her peers. She has an IEP but hasn't progressed this year. School have put into place extra support such as an hour a week with a special needs trained ta, precision teaching for spellings etc and still dd is not making progress. School have ref to salt and ed psych but we are currently waiting to be assessed.

I am unsure if I should apply for SA now or wait for ed psych report. Any advice would be greatly appreciated

CheeseToasty Wed 15-May-13 18:19:24

Do you know how long you will be waiting for the ed psych? I was waiting a long time so eventually gave up and applied for sa. It is the quickest way to get to see one.

armani Wed 15-May-13 18:41:04

Was originally told the referral would be discussed at a meeting last Friday and then a few weeks from there, but have just found out today that the senco did not have the paperwork submitted in time so now the meeting will be in two weeks time.
I feel like time is passing us by and my daughters education is suffering as a result. It's so frustrating tbh.

CheeseToasty Wed 15-May-13 18:51:03

This is similar to my experience. If you are not even on a waiting list to see ed psych it could be quite some time till you see one. I came on here when i had the same question and was advised not to wait. Have you ever see salt? Do you have any reports to support your request. If you really feel she needs a statement I would say go for it.

armani Wed 15-May-13 19:02:21

Yes dd has been ref to salt 3 times. Each time she has been discharged due to her not engaging in the therapy sad I have the reports, with results from assessments etc but they have disclaimers written on them saying not to be used towards a statement of special educational needs.

CheeseToasty Wed 15-May-13 19:47:34

I am not as knowledgable as other on here but I have never come across disclaimers on reports?

CheeseToasty Wed 15-May-13 19:59:04

Just noticed I recently commented on another of your threads. You say that dd has been assessed by dev pead and ot. Have they written reports or offered advice?

rosielou678 Wed 15-May-13 20:03:58

Gosh I would love to know why there are such disclaimers on the reports! Are they LA/NHS reports or private ones?

armani Wed 15-May-13 20:26:17

Have seen dev pead once and they offered to liase with school about ref to EP, my next appt with the pead is not for another two months.
Assesment with OT is ongoing, so I could ask her at next appt.

The reports are NHS written by two different salts and both have disclaimers written on the front in bold.

armani Wed 15-May-13 20:30:21

Also I have report from pead which states dx of global learning difficulties, my concerns, OT initial assessment results and further action eg Connors questionnaires, to liase with school etc. can this be used as evidence to apply for SA?

BigBird69 Wed 15-May-13 20:38:48

My son is being assessed at the moment. To be honest, the worry of the whole thing is leaving me feeling constantly sick. If you are thinking of it I would say don't delay. It is taking a lot longer than I expected and is a lot more in depth and stressful than I could have imagined. Sorry if that is not what you wanted to hear!! That said, he has had LOADS of assessments, but there is at least a six week delay between each stage, so I seem to be constantly be left hanging as to what is going to happen next. My advice would be to research as much as you can, get as many people on side as you can (believe me, you'll need it) and crack on. As I say, I don't know what the outcome for my little boy will be, it's horrible when his future and our our hopes for him depend on it. Good luck! xx

rosielou678 Wed 15-May-13 21:21:40

That is so shoddy that the NHS reports have that they can not be used for SA purposes. That basically means that in these reports they can say eg 'DC needs x, y and z therapy'. But when it comes to SA, they can deny these recommendations!

Why am I still surprised at the shoddiness of the SA 'system'!

2006hildy Wed 15-May-13 21:45:14

Go for it! it's the only way to get things moving. A year ago I was told absolutely not to an Ed Pysch meeting - we have had two so far this year!

I don't know what I am doing but everyone seems to be sitting up and taking note especially when they have a tribunal date to work to.

The LEA seem to take advantage of the vulnerable. I wish I had applied four years ago now but trusted all these so called experts. Now I trust Mumsnet as things definitely seem to be working once you set the wheels in motion.

We are at the same NC levels as you so borderline you only have to prove dc "probably needs" stat. ass. to win at tribunal.

They can only say no, as far as you take it. It doesn't have to cost a thing. You have nothing to loose apart from stress!

It depends on the timeline as well which would be quicker which I am no expert at sorry.

CheeseToasty Wed 15-May-13 22:18:39

I think the report from pead would be worth including with a letter requesting sa. I wonder if you could mention that salt report could not be included due to disclaimer. My ds in year 2 has some similar difficulties with higher nc levels and has a statement. I really would say go for it. It is a long process and even if started now extra support will not be in place till the end of year 3.

beautifulgirls Thu 16-May-13 09:35:39

Why not give IPSEA a call and ask about these disclaimers and the implications of them. It may be that they are meant to mean the report is not fully comprehensive and further assessment would be needed. If it means they can deny provision further down the line then that is not acting in the best interests of the child to not disclose things anyway so it may be that you are allowed to submit given that you will be requesting a full assessment of need in the statutory assessment process anyway. Professionals and the LA are supposed to make all information available not just those bits that support their case. Remember that the process is supposed to be about the child! (ha ha!)

BigBird69 Thu 16-May-13 13:00:26

Re disclaimers: They were on all of my son's from the hospital, salt etc. If it is worded the same way it says something like "not to be used without the express permission of the signatory". I basically phoned them up and asked for their permission, which they all gave, and when I sent them to the LA I said in my covering letter that I had got the permission. When and if they agree to assessment, they will write to the professionals involved with your child and ask for a report, which should summarise all the history of the previous reports etc.

armani Mon 20-May-13 13:47:07

update - i have met with OT today, who carried out an assessment of dd's fine and gross motor skills. This concluded that dd's motor skills are greatly delayed, at 0.5 percentile, so has advised me to apply for a statement on the basis that dd needs 1-2-1 support, due to her delayed motor skills. OT is providing me with a report to include in with the letter requesting SA.
Dd's school are still insisting we wait for EP to become involved, however I am going to apply now. Any advice would be greatly recieved.

nostoppingme Mon 20-May-13 14:22:11

Apply now. You can include school's EP report when your dd gets seen eventually....All the best!

kittycat68 Mon 20-May-13 17:49:31

have been to tribunal several times. I understand how you feel things are not moving quickly enough. the LA work on slow to dead slow!!!
I know ed physcs are over run with work within the la. The school is asking you to wait becasue they know how important the report is for tribunal. Getting a stat ass is not easiy you have to have overwhelming proffessional advice to get one. without an EP report you are unlikely to get a statement. If you apply for a statement it is down to you to provide ALL paperwork that will be considered.
For your information a private report usually costs around £2000 .
The school and LA do not have to give you any paperwork.
The school is asking you to wait because they know this. By all means contact IPSEA they are very good and knowledgeable. Also are you entitled to legal aid becasue you can get a free solicitor for help , although they wont represent you at tribual.

armani Mon 20-May-13 19:04:45

Hi kittycat and nostoppingme, thanks for the advice.
Kitty do u not think I should go ahead with the request for SA then? I have a written report from OT and Pead supporting my application for SA, I have also been liasing with an indi EP, who thinks I have a strong enough case to apply now. Indi EP has also agreed to assess and provide a written report if needed for tribunal.

Will the LA not consider my daughters needs based on evidence from a consultant pead and OT?

MareeeyaDoloures Mon 20-May-13 19:36:27

armani, you ought to be able to get a private ed psych report for much less than £2000. Shop around! Also School and LA are obliged to give copies of any paperwork they hold, it's called the data protection act. Legal aid is being cut back quite drastically, but ipsea and sos sen can signpost you to reasonable practitioners. Or you can use an 'advocate'.

School will need to get the ed psych to see her once you request SA (if they do SA she gets it automatically, and if planning to refuse SA they use an ed psych opinion to say no SA needed)

CheeseToasty Mon 20-May-13 19:39:09

I think it is probably true that Ep report would be useful but you could be waiting a long time for it. Ds nursery said they would get ep in... It never happened. At first IEP in reception the school agree to Ep request... It never happened. Eventually I gave up have way through year one and I applied for SA without Ep and got a statement. I did have a private salt report though. I also sent ot, slt and pead reports.

If you apply now and get turned down and you don't appeal you have a 6 month wait till you can apply again. Which in your case may not be too bad. It won't happen any quicker if you wait as you probably won't see Ep till next term.

armani Mon 20-May-13 19:56:27

Yes the EP I have been liasing with already has quoted me £500 for assessment and full report. I have a really good consultant pead on dd's case, who specialises in educational needs. I am also hoping LA EP will have assessed dd by the time it goes to tribunal, if not I will have the indi EP assess dd.
I really don't want to lose the 6 months if I can help it, as dd really does need this support.
Thanks for all the advice.

MareeeyaDoloures Mon 20-May-13 19:58:41

LA EP won't do as thorough a job as the indie EP. So be aware you might need both.

armani Mon 20-May-13 20:06:32

Yes that's not a problem if we need both. Although it is frustrating as the £500 could be spent on a course of hydro therapy to help ease the pain in dd's legs.
We have just been re ref to physio again so I will enquire about this on NHS.
I can't believe what a battle it is to get my dd some support to provide her with an adequate education.

dev9aug Mon 20-May-13 20:07:36

Mareeya you better hope Ilikemysleep doesn't see your last post or you will be getting a telling off from her soon..grin

dev9aug Mon 20-May-13 20:10:39

Armani even if the EP did see you, it will be for an initial observation, this won't count towards a report for SA. If you did apply for a SA, then they will have to come out and do an assessment again. This is our personal experience by the way, so not sure if it is true for all areas.

dev9aug Mon 20-May-13 20:13:31

The LA might consider your daughters needs from reports by Paed and OT but an EP assessment will be required to determine level of need in an educational setting.

dietstartstmoz Mon 20-May-13 20:24:39

Hi OP, definately just make a request for a statutory assessment. Our not situation is not the same but our DS2 has autism, and when the statement was started he had significantly delayed development, delayed speech, poor fine motor skills, not toilet trained etc. Up until that point we had only seen the paed for a dx, SALT for initial assessment and the early yrs service were 'monitoring' DS. the Ed Psych assessment and report, medical, OT etc were all part of the stat assssment and all those reports combined together to give us the Statement. Dont wait a day longer, get on the phone tomorrow to the LA and tell them you want to request a Statutory Assessment, dont be fobbed off by the school, or the LA. I dont understand why the school are saying wait. Go for it, and good luck.

MareeeyaDoloures Mon 20-May-13 20:26:27

Ilike would probably love to be able to do a full-on workup and report on the dc she sees though. But then she'd only see a few per week, which isn't going to get anyone very far.

armani Mon 20-May-13 21:03:58

Dev do you think the pead and ot reports would be enough for la to accept request for SA? Then they can send on EP to assess dd's needs in her educational setting.

I can't see how they can dispute her needs, the support she requires is not going to decrease just because she is at school and not at home.

kittycat68 Mon 20-May-13 21:18:18

£500 for private report is cheap but for a basic report it is probably fine. The LA will try to get out of statementing if they can cos they are so strapped for cash. I would definitely get a private one done if you can. When you go to tribunal they cross examine the LA ed physc if her report does not tally with yours and ask her to justify the difference. Tribunal is not a scary thing the judge will focus on the LA and get them to justify why they wont statement.
When applying for a statement they go on the evidence YOU submit for the request anything you need to aplly for under data protection act or freedom of information takes time although they say within 30 days its often longer, if they turn down the application then u havea set time frame in which to appeal.
If you apply for statement include everything you have, l. Most LA turn down statement applications because no ed physc report is enclosed. Although it costs my strongest advice to you is if you can stretch to one get one done! I went for an indepth one as my LA ed phy report said statement was not needed and needs could be met within school! She got slated at tribunal by the judge for her report!She is employed by the LA and follows there guidelines so if the LA cant afford statmenting the ed physc report will say no statemneting.
strong advise you to contact ipsea and discus with them wether or not you have enough evidence to proceed at this point they are up on the current laws and sen la provisions.

dietstartstmoz Mon 20-May-13 21:23:24

For us the early years service started the process (with an ultimatum from us) but the DS had lots of assessments as part of the statementing process, including indepth ed psych ones, we did not have to supply anything other than parental comments, and DS's Statement went through, with full hours in a mainstream setting first time, no need for a tribunal. OP-have you spoken to your local parent partnership service?

dev9aug Mon 20-May-13 21:44:55

I know Mareeya, I was trying for humour and failed badly..blush

Armani The paed report should be enough to get the ball rolling but do apply for SA. It will probably speed things up. You might want to book a private EP anyway because they generally have a long waiting list and you can decide to either use this appointment if you disagree with the recommendations or cancel if you do.

armani Mon 20-May-13 22:01:23

I am going to contact ipsea about this tomorrow. I have spoken to parent partnership last week, before latest OT assessment and was told to wait for ed psych report, school to act on ed psych recommendations and then apply on basis of failure to progress. But that could be another year yet of wasted education.

armani Mon 20-May-13 22:03:06

Also parent partnership Are employed by la so are not impartial, along with la ed psych.

nostoppingme Mon 20-May-13 22:10:04

Please do not ask for help from Parent Partnership!!!!! Rule no 1......

As you rightly say, they are employed by the LA, therefore, are not going to go against their own employers. Conflict of interest.

All the best and go for it!!

kittycat68 Mon 20-May-13 22:15:06

you are correct Arman i they are not impartial. schools go on ed physc report, ed phy goes by la guidelines, la set guidelines within there budget. TBH consult ipsea asap, but am sure they will tell you the only way to speed this up is private ed physc report. my two children now teenagers and it took me a while to realise that the LA doesn't have my childrens needs at heart just their budgets. you have to fight for your childs provision the LA just hope that parents will give in and give up. sadly some do.

armani Mon 20-May-13 22:17:28

Thanks nostoppingme, glad you agree!
Am going to contact ipsea and see what they recommend.
OT said she is fully aware how hard it is to get SA and intends to make report as solid as possible so in looking forward to receiving it!

MareeeyaDoloures Mon 20-May-13 22:51:44

dev9, sorry, am hyper-stressed and have early stage humour failure. Armani, it sounds like your OT is an old hand.

dev9aug Mon 20-May-13 23:12:41

No worries Mareeya. I can't imagine the stress you must be under right now. Hope things work out for you.

Armani here is a link to a copy of the SENCOP if you are interested.

armani Tue 21-May-13 12:51:14

Update - I have spoken to ipsea this morning and they strongly recommend I proceed with the application of SA smile
I cannot recommend ipsea highly enough, the lady I spoke to was very helpful and informative.
Ipsea seem to think I have enough evidence to proceed now and if necessary, prove that dd needs SA at tribunal. Also the rule regarding the 6 month wait if our case is turned down is not correct. I only have to wait 6 months to reapply if the la have already assessed. As this is a request for SA, if the la turn it down I will reapply immediately with a private and la ed psych report.

armani Tue 21-May-13 12:53:10

Sorry I should have added that if the la turn req down and tribunal agree with this decision, I will apply again immediately with la ed psych report plus indi ed psych report.

Now to gather all of my evidence and crack on with my letter!

dietstartstmoz Tue 21-May-13 15:59:16

Glad to hear that, it sounds like you should definately have enough evidence already, fingers crossed it goes smoothly for you.

At the risk of outing myself I have been thinking about this thread and I feel I have to defend some parent partnerships, even though this goes against the general tone of MNSN, but if anyone is lurking on this thread and undecided about pursuing SA I feel I have to say not all PP's are difficult. I work for a neighbouring LA, PP were based in our office, their staff are all very experienced in SEN work, they work V hard, they put on lots of courses/workshops for parents and they are not funded directly through the LA, the staff are all employed by a careers company, and they have the contract to deliver PP. In the years I worked with them they did a great job supporting parents and kicking the arse of schools. I now have a child with SEN, they offered me great support and advice when we were first looking at SEN issues, we live in a different borough and our PP were helpful with the SA process and also came to a meeting at school and kicked the heads arse when he wanted DS to start primary school PT only. I have not personally or professionally had any issues or been made aware of any, although maybe we are unusual where we live-who knows.

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