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dd dla came through im not happy.

(34 Posts)
Crawling Sat 05-Jan-13 12:06:27

she got middle care rate. I think she has high mobility and high care rate my question is if I appeal will the middle care money stop? can they award less? can I claim carers allowance while appeal is going through? and can I notify tax credits while I am waiting for the appeal? im mostly worried that ill appeal and end up getting less.

ArthurPewty Sat 05-Jan-13 12:33:24

ring them up now and ask for a reconsideration.

if you've been getting hrc and hrm, you'll probably be bumped back up.

it is unlikely if you've been getting hrc that you'll get less!

as for tax creds, i dont know, i've never been awarded less so we've always had the disability element... BUMP for someone who knows!

Crawling Sat 05-Jan-13 12:40:38

this is her first award so she hasn't had payments decreased she just got awarded mcr for 2 years.

Anna85 Sat 05-Jan-13 12:51:48

From what I have seen before if you ask for a reconsideration it could mean they award a different level either lower or higher as will look at the whole claim again. Not sure if payments stop though whilst they do that!

Good luck though x

LegoAcupuncture Sat 05-Jan-13 12:53:14

You only get HRC if you are up several times a night with her, doesn't matter how much are you give her during the day.

HRC is very hard to get now.

Not knowing your dd or her SN though, I'd say call them up and ask them to look at I again. Do you know who they contacted to get info from? Might be worth getting some letters to back yourself up from paed or anyone else involved with her.

lougle Sat 05-Jan-13 13:18:09

Do you have a copy of the claim form?

For mobility, as she is 3, she can only get either high rate mobility or no mobility (at 5 she would be eligible for Low rate mobility).

To get high rate mobility, she must either:

Be unable, or virtually unable to walk (temporary paralysis comes under this category)

or

Have severe mental impairment and severe behavioural problems and receive high rate care.

So, you need to ask for the reasons why she was awarded MRC.

If you ask for reconsideration, they consider the whole award, so they could decide to drop her to low rate care or nothing, but if you feel that she definitely qualifies for HRC/HRM, then it's worth considering.

Crawling Sat 05-Jan-13 13:21:04

I have been thinking and I can't go through the stress of appeal and I'm not 100% she would get it more 50/50 so I'm just going to be happy with what we have thanks for all replies.

Crawling Sat 05-Jan-13 19:00:56

I have been thinking id like opinions on whether you lot think dd should get hrc or mrc the form says she is awarded mcr rate as she needs help frequently throughout the day but doesn't mention the night time needs I put down if I put that and her mobility needs here can you give me your opinions on whether I should appeal or not? Her night time needs is one hour routine after the cutoff time during which I need to be awake and give constant supervision as she gets out of bed and does dangerous things like turn the cooker on, dangle over the banistor and burn herself with the hot water tapsshe needs to be physically restrained and put back to bed repeatedly and told to lie down.

She also requires a extra hour through the night because she needs a happy change which requires the same one hour to be spent putting her back to sleep. for the above reasons other than this about 2 nights a week she wakes and wanders.

She is 3 yo so must get hrc to get mobility and can only have hm she only walks up to ten feet outside before she becomes severely distressed flops to the floor and cries I then need to restrain her to stop her hurting herself, I have been injured doing this and it often takes about 15 minutes to get her in a Pam at this point where I pull the hood down and cover the front to stop distress. Do you wonderful wise ladies think this description qualifies for high rate or do you think I'm being objective (as its easy to be when it'd your dc) and I should save myself the stress of appeal because dd does not meet requirements for hrc ?

I honestly don't know what id do without the support and advice of you lovely ladies.

LegoAcupuncture Sat 05-Jan-13 19:02:50

Dos she have ASD?

The standard rate for ASD is mrc so you should appeal. Just ask them to look at I again.

Crawling Sat 05-Jan-13 19:03:16

objective should be unobjective.

Crawling Sat 05-Jan-13 19:04:25

Yes she has classic autisim ( but we are still waiting on a formal diagnosis)

LegoAcupuncture Sat 05-Jan-13 19:05:21

Sorry, posted too soon.

I have a son who has ASD. He sleeps through the night, but only because we use medication. He can be awake until 11pm and up from 3am. We do not receive HRC. As they've classed the start of his day as 3am. Because we all know 7 year olds get up hat early hmm

LegoAcupuncture Sat 05-Jan-13 19:06:13

I know a few people who's DC have classic autism who all get HRC and HRM, so you should appeal.

SminkoPinko Sat 05-Jan-13 19:13:13

If your daughter needs that amount of care at night she should qualify for the higher rate care. I would ask one of the professionals working with your daughter to write a letter disputing this for you and asking for an appeal if they cannot reconsider the decision in your favour. Many initial decisions are overturned at appeal or just before if they realise you are determined to appeal and they are likely to lose. You don't have to appeal in person if that feels too stressful- you can just ask them to reconsider the written evidence plus any supporting letters/other evidence refuting their original decision. It is very unlikely to hurt and may well have a good outcome. Ime though independent appeal panels have the power to lower the award as well as keep it the same or raise it they very rarely do so and there is little to lose by appealing.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Sat 05-Jan-13 19:15:00

If you can get to CAB, they have a symptoms checklist, and you can also keep a diary for a couple of weeks to record the regularity of care needs.
They will handle the appeal for/with you, and answer your questions.

sazale Sat 05-Jan-13 19:51:19

The problem you may have is that she's only 3, if she was 13 (for example) you wouldn't have as much difficulty.

Most 3 year olds need supervision as they are unaware of danger so I would say concentrate on why it's different to a NT 3 year old. You would prob need to explain why you can't use a safety etc. to stop her going not the kitchen.

Again with the pram issue all 3 of my children hated going in them at that fe and would arch their backs and put their feet on the front wheels etc. I spent ages having to push the pram tipped on the rear wheels. 1 of my children is ASD, 1 NT and not sure what's happening with no 3 yet.

Also many 3 year olds are still in nappies at night so once again what is the difference? Does she need changing because she poos and then smears etc.

I'm not writing this to sound nasty (far from it) but trying to help chuck. If you've just said what you've put here then if I was a decision maker I would think not much different to average 3 year old. I just wanted to see if you have detailed the reasons why you have to do it and why it's different to an average 3 year old.

sazale Sat 05-Jan-13 19:53:19

Sorry should check posts first!

Meant to say why you can't use a safety gate to stop her going in the kitchen.

Crawling Sat 05-Jan-13 20:04:29

I don't think you sound nasty at allsazale and I see your point I appreciate it greatly as I don't wish to go through stressful appeals needlessly so thank you very much for your honesty the reason safety gates are no good is because she climbs over them so alarmed ones are also no good.

chocjunkie Sat 05-Jan-13 20:05:43

i would appeal i think. it is just a quick form to fill in. do you have a dx yet (should not matter in theory as dla is based on need)? fwiw, Dd (autism) got dla awareded last year (aged 3). we were turned down initially and also on reconsideration. i appealed and dwp changed suddenly its mind and we went from no Dla (!) to HRC (!). buggers were clearly just trying it on. we did not get mobolity though.

lougle Sat 05-Jan-13 20:13:02

This is going to be one of those 'the devil is in the detail' situations.

So...

"Her night time needs is one hour routine after the cutoff time"

There is no strict 'cut-off time'. 11-7 is the standard time that they indicate by 'night'. However, if your household doesn't shut down until after DD is settled, they can argue that it is still 'day time'. So, you can have different scenarios:

Child goes to bed and settles at 8pm. Parents go to bed at 10pm. Child wakes for one hour between 11pm and 12am. This is night-time care because the household had shut down and then the child woke and needed care.

Child takes until 12am to settle. Parents tend to child's needs, then lock up and go to bed once the child is definitely asleep, for safety. This can be regarded as day-time care because the household hasn't shut down.

Equally, if a household would only get up at 7am routinely, but the child wakes at 5.30am and can't be left unsupervised, then the parents can argue that this is 1½ hours of 'night-waking'.

(LegoAcupuncture you should contest that, btw. The decision maker's handbook gives the specific example of [iirc] a farmer whose usual start time was always 4am, so he still wakes at that time. Because the carer's usual wake time would be 7am, the 3 hour difference must be regarded as night-waking)

"She also requires a extra hour through the night because she needs a happy change which requires the same one hour to be spent putting her back to sleep. for the above reasons other than this about 2 nights a week she wakes and wanders."

This confused me a bit. Are you saying that she needs her nappy change and/or wanders for 2 nights per week? Or are you saying that she needs her nappy changed every night, and then additionally she wakes and wanders 2 nights per week?

To get HRC, the night waking component must be on at least 5 days out of 7.

The nappy changing may depend on your description of it. If you say 'I need to change DD's nappy and settle her again, this takes a hour.' the DM can argue that a) a child of 3 can often need nappies b) they may be suspicious of a nappy change taking an hour. To justify this as care 'over and above a normal 3 year old', I think you'd have to explain why you have to change the nappy mid-night. What would happen if you didn't. What happens when you do - what steps you have to take to settle her. How that's different than normal children, etc.

sneezecakesmum Sat 05-Jan-13 20:14:22

If you are under paeds already have you asked about melatonin to help with the sleepless nights. Regardless you must all be exhausted so its worth a look. Maybe if DD had a good nights sleep her behaviour might be more manageable (hopefully). As you say it looks very 50/50 wrt DLA but I would give it a go. Nothing ventured etc.

mummytopebs Sat 05-Jan-13 20:21:59

Can you ask the consultant to write a letter? My dd who is coming up 3 got refused and dla, the consultant wrote and she got high care x

Crawling Sat 05-Jan-13 21:04:26

yes she needs a nappy change every night or she pees out of the nappy and then needs clean bedding the reason it takes so long is because she then requires to be re settled. additional she wakes about two nights a week. I can certainly see why you need to choose your wording carefully I think I will take a few days and think over once I'm feeling less stressed.

sazale Sat 05-Jan-13 21:15:07

I'm glad it didn't come across that way crawling.

As Lougle says it is all in the wording and explaining why you have to do it and what would happen if you didn't.

I recently appealed my DD's DLA and managed to get it changed before going to appeal. You could ask for a reconsideration and provide more info if you think you maybe weren't specific enough.

Good luck chuck x

sickofincompetenceandbullshit2 Sat 05-Jan-13 21:33:10

I am confused why middle rate care has been said to be standard for ASD...I think DLA has been shown to have no standard! There have been HRC, MRC and LRC awards made to kids who seem very similar!

My son is very-HFA, age 10, given indefinite HRC and HRM. It is the night-waking that moves an award beyond MRC and then opens up the possibility of a HRM, plus evidence of violent/ reckless behaviour that requires restraint. We had a major battle to get DLA at all as they gave MRC and LRM when he was 3 no problem but it got removed on renewal because decision-maker said he was bright so should be able to behave! Had tribunal and was given HRM and HRC for 5 years and on the last renewal, indefinitely.

I would say appeal. It's not difficult if you have evidence/ reasons that meet the criteria and your case sounds unusual for a 3 year old.

perceptionreality Sat 05-Jan-13 21:57:57

My dd has classic autism too - she gets HRC and HRM. You need to appeal and not be afraid - it is very unlikely you will get less than you have now. My advice would be to go for tribunal immediately and they will see you're serious - they may change their minds before it gets to tribunal (seems to happen to a lot of people!)

middle rate care is not standard for ASD, particularly if classically autistic - where has that idea come from? Where DLA is concerned, nothing is standard!

logi Sun 06-Jan-13 00:03:13

My son has HFA and receives HRC ..LRM ...we too have considered applying for HRM but are not sure due to risking losing the care element.The HRC is due to my son waking at night.

Crawling Sun 06-Jan-13 16:09:44

Right thanks to you lovely ladies I'm going to ask for the decision maker to review the decision. Will I be able to write why I think dd should get hrc? is there a form? or do I just phone up and ask them to review?

chocjunkie Sun 06-Jan-13 16:52:35

i think you can just ask for a reconsideration on the phone.

you can also ask for a written "statement of reason" as to why Mrc and not hrc was awarded. in our case this statement consisted of 3 sentences which clearly showed nobody ever read our application. i asked for a review in writing explaining why their reasons to turn us down were unreasonable (did not help though as we were turned down again). for us the appeal did the trick - it did go to the tribunal (dwp changed mind when we appealed; got Hrc). i would not bother to ask for a review but go straight for an appeal.

chocjunkie Sun 06-Jan-13 16:53:39

i meant our appeal did NOT go to tribunal. grrr

lisad123everybodydancenow Sun 06-Jan-13 19:05:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chocjunkie Sun 06-Jan-13 19:17:31

i thought it was LRM that only kicked in after 5 but that you can get HRM before 5 hmm

perceptionreality Sun 06-Jan-13 19:24:14

I know of twins with ASD who got HRM at 3 - their parents had to appeal I think but they got it.

Crawling Sun 06-Jan-13 19:24:26

chocjunkie that's what I thought hrm age 3 lrm age 5

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