Is restraining 6 years old "usual practice"?

[DavidCameronsTie]

Hi all,

My DS is in year 1 and has full time 1-1 support. We have been given a preliminary diagnosis of mild PDD or atypical development with features of Aspergers.

After a disastrous reception year (when he was only at school for about 2 hours per day) he is now full time.

However, he has good days and bad. On the bad days he will shout, have tantrums, and push/hit if thwarted.

On really bad days (like today) he will throw chairs at his TA.

DS reacted very badly last year to being restrained (incorrect technique as it turned out), and ended up out of school for 12 weeks because he was so anxious. DH and I have told school that we don't want him to be restrained.

However, I anticipate that the school are likely to say that he will have to be excluded unless we agree.

I talked with CAHMS about this and they seemed to think that restraining techniques were "usual" with ASD children. This really shocked me.

Is it true? And what alternative strategies are used with your DC's?

Thanks

[aquariusmum]

I have told the school to use a very angry face and a fierce "no", I also asked if they would agree to let us splash water on his hair (which is an aversive technique we used at home when he was very little) but they said no. I would think restraining is not very successful in preventing the behaviour happenign again. I know it may sound odd, but I believe you have to over-react very angrily to any aggression so he gets the message it is a no-no. We used to give him a hairwash (which he hates) if he ever did anything aggressive, and it has worked as he now edits his own behaviour. That is all probably not much help, as what works for one child doesn't work for another. But I don't want to give the school any reason to expel him (they have excluded 2 ASD kids from this school for aggression in the last two years) and it feels like they are on the lookout for an excuse to get rid of my ASD 4 year old. It is really hard, but I am sending you a big hug and hoping you find something that works for you and your DS.

[PeachyHasAFiggyPudInTheOven]

Restraining is normal in thsi house for ds1 (not ds3 despite more severity) but I have been taught the proper methods and I need to use them due to the natures of ds1's behaviours; however I wouldn't want school to use the techniques as there's a world of difference between me and them- a love bond for a start.

DS1 has constant access to a time out zone (the library) and when needed ahs someone tasked to watch him- eg always at play / lunch.

I would speak to two people on this: the NAS and also to social services, who should ahve restraint guidelines you can see.

[mymatemax]

IMO restraint is appropriate in certain situations but only if there is a risk of harm to a person. However it should only be used by properly trained staff.

Are the school getting any outside support & advice to prevent things escalating to the point when restraint is needed?

All areas vary but most special schools & the NAS offer an outreach service to aid ms schools.

[sarah573]

Hi, Im sorry you are having such a hard time with your DS.

I have an aggressive 9 year old with AS.

Im afraid I disagree with you strongly on the restraint issues. If my DS was throwing things/being aggressive or generally threatening the welfare of himself or others, I would not only want him to be restrained I would expect it.

Are you saying the TA having had a chair thrown at her should not be allowed to hold onto your DS to prevent him throwing another one?? What if that chair missed the TA and hit another child??

[DavidCameronsTie]

Thanks for your replies.

Sarah, I am against restraint for the following reasons:-

1. I don't believe that restraint would be necessary if DS was managed properly

1. I also don't believe that restraint would be necessary if he were in a more suitable environment (ie not in a large class of 30 children with no dedicated time out space)

1. How does restraining a child actually teach them not to behave in that way?

1. The staff that I have come across have no experience in restraint and in my opinion simply make matters worse when they try a restraint incorrectly. They have been trained by the way.

I am of course keen that neither staff or pupils come to harm. But - my main concern has to be for my DS.

[PeachyHasAFiggyPudInTheOven]

There is a point at which restraint becomes essential, fortunately (or not as the case may be) DS1 only reaches that level at home in 'safety'.

Why can't the school allow him a time out area? DS1 has bonded quite well with the school librarian he spends so much (self referred) time there!

[sarah573]

I agree in an ideal word it wouldn't happen. Unfortunately, as we can all attest, the situation in schools for our SN kids is far from ideal.

If you take away the right of the school to physically restrain your child, I think, from what you have said in your original post, there would be serious safety implications. The school would almost certainally risk assess, and possibly decide that they could not teach your son on health and safety grounds. I know your priority is your DS, but their priority is your DS and 29 other children, who have the right to be at school without chairs whizzing past their heads!

Of course theres different levels of bad behaviour and aggression, and certinally school shouldn't be wading in if his aggression is not putting himself or anyone else at risk. However when it gets to the throwing furniture stage Im afraid he needs to be stopped. If they only way they can facilitate this is restraint I don't really see they have much choice.

[yurt1]

Severely autistic ds1's mainstream school requested restraint training when he was 5. He moved to a special school, is now 8 and has never been restrained. This is because the environment is now safe for him & he not stressed in the way he was in mainstream. Also the staff know what they are doing, He may be grabbed by 2 people when out and about (he needs to be for his safety).

The times he was restrained in mainstream made matters far worse- escalated situations considerably. I agree with you and argued that staff should be seeking ASD training and behavioural management training before (or at least as well as) restraint training.

Moving school solved the problem.

[daisy5678]

My 6 year old son (ASD) is in mainstream. He has full time one-to-one support, excellent TAs, an amazing teacher and understanding peers. Oh, and access to a quiet room with sonsory lights and things if he needs it. Even with all that, he still loses it and throws chairs, runs out of school, attacks staff and children (though less so to the last one this year).

They HAVE to restrain him. He's a strong little boy and can do an awful lot of damage. They have been Team Teach trained and I know that if they have to restrain him, it's for his own good and that of those around him. If they couldn't do it, they'd have had to let him go long ago on the grounds of Health and Safety.

So I know it's scary, but I think it's necessary with children like ours, sadly.

[coppertop]

Ds2's (4) teacher mentioned restraining when he first started school in September, so presumably it's been used in the school before. However, the teacher said that she didn't agree with the whole idea and so would not be using it.

Ds2 has had a couple of meltdowns. The school's strategy is to leave him alone to calm down. This is also the Paed's advice. I don't know whether this would change though if ds2 was endangering any of the other children. He tends to take it out on himself rather than others.

I agree that the school should be looking at ways of preventing the trigger (with appropriate outside help if needed) rather than just dealing with the aftermath.

[PeachyHasAFiggyPudInTheOven]

Its worth remembering that if he's in a school you think is right for him, refusing restraint could lose him that, and if he's being aggressive justifiably so as the teahcers HAVE to make mass safety a priority. Plus his own safety- he could easily hurt himself if he's having 'tantrums' so bad they warrant restraint.

Have you ahd restraint training yourself? because it's really a lot less scary than you may think if done properly. I used to help restrain full grown adults with ASD in my job years agobut BIBIC taught me how to do safe holds etc when we were there, and that amde a huge difference. The best hold for ds1 offers absolutely no risk of him hurting me or being hurt, is notat alla ggressive and minimalises facial contact (a trigger for many). Simply he sits on my lap and I cross my arms over his chest and his shoulders, and pin him close to me. He's getting older now and I can't do it effectively whilst PG, but in the main its brillaint.

[bonkerzaboutxmas]

My Ds is restarined at school too. Age 7 he is held to stop harm to himself and others. Currently the school are changing a medical room into a soft room so restarint can be used less but I have to say although its not ideal if it stops my son hurting himself then it has to be done. I myself want some training but cant access it. All the staff involved with DS currently have 'team teach' training.

[DavidCameronsTie]

Thanks for all you comments. It does look as though restraint is used pretty often with ASD children.

I understand that it is necessary for some children - but what I can't accept is why it should be necessary at school when we do not have any need to use these techniques as home. Surely this means that the school are not managing DS properly OR that it is simply the wrong place for him.

We have thought long and hard about moving DS. The school are trying but tbh they seem to view DS as some sort of alien creature as they have no experience of dealing with children on the spectrum (unbelievable, I know). The problem is that there are no suitable special schools in our County, and all the other ms primary schools have similar class numbers and lack of facilities. DS's current school has no spare rooms for him to take time out - he has a corner of the classroom by the back door which is totally unsuitable.

The current policy of inclusion is completely failing my DS. The only options we have are home schooling or residential care if he cannot cope with ms. Neither of these options are right for my DS.

So much for "every child counts"...

[PeachyHasAFiggyPudInTheOven]

One of the most dificult things with ASD kids is their behaviour can be contextual. A great many reserve their worst for home; the NAS actually issue letters stating that sometimes as the schol can say X is fine, not realising that whatever stressors X encounters during the day will be played out in the family environment. That is a problem we experience with ds1. other kids are on a pretty equlateral footing wherever or worse ats chool- so it oculd be that school are failing to manage behaviours (and non-provision of a timeout zone may point to this) but it could be that your child is enacting the opposite behaviour to ours, ie saving the worst stuff for school. if you're concerned about the palcement certainly take action (remembering the stress of moving for a child with ASD), but do be aware of the above.

[yurt1]

It could well be that they are mismanaging. That certainly happened with ds1 in mainstream (I had an ASD savvy spy) who observed a few incidents- they also told me about a few). Do you have an autism outreach team who can go in? Can you push for ASD specific training?

[horseshoe]

I think restraint should be used but as a last resort as it can lead to further distress for the child.

A friend of mine worked for a school where two teachers would sit either side of the child and just confine him/her to that space without actually restraining them. It worked but she did come home with bruises galore and a couple of bite marks to match.

I suppose the question is..how often does your son react in this way and what are the triggers. sometimes mainstream isn't the best option as they dont have the best training and not as tolerant as others.

Does your school have funding for SN? I know my mums school allocate a teacher for each child registered as SN which can include even minor needs but I dont know if this is a pilot scheme or not.

[horseshoe]

Sorry just saw that he has full time support.

[TheHollyandtheOliviaMumsnet]

Peachy, please check your email or email me! You've won a hamper look!

[PeachyHasAFiggyPudInTheOven]

LOL Olivia have replied thanks

[DavidCameronsTie]

Hi everyone,

Hope you all had a lovely Xmas.

Well, things have come to a head here as DS was sobbing for 2 hours last night about not wanting to go to school .

DH and I have agreed we must find a new school. There is one local school which appears to be promising - it is ms but has a part time class for children from local special school . Their attitude is very much one of inclusion, which makes a welcome change.

So my question is.....how easy is it to move a child with a statement? Are the LEA difficult about changing the named school? Do we need any special evidence to support out request or is it enough to say that DS is v unhappy?

Thanks you ladies, once again.

DCT

[daisy5678]

If it is mainstream, it costs the LEA no more so they should be fine with it (though not if you ask for transport costs - need to make that clear when you ask that you will bear the transport costs). You need to ask for an Interim Review of the Statement with a letter saying that the current placement is not meeting his needs. Then an Annual Review type thing will take place, after which LEA should change the name of the school in Part 4. Good luck.