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Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

SN children

Mainstream schools and nappies - can anyone point me in the direction of relevant legislation?

14 replies

coppertop · 09/05/2007 21:00

I'm hoping that I won't need the info after all but I heard something that concerned me a little. Can anyone tell me what the rules are about schools and their duties/responsibilities wrt children who aren't yet toilet-trained? I've tried googling but keep getting vague info that says children with disabilities shouldn't miss out on having the same education opportunities as NT children.

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luciemule · 09/05/2007 22:21

I think it depends on the school and how good they are about it. My daughter has regular poo and wee accidents as she has (so they say) acute constipation and they know she's on medication for it. I supply a carrier bag containing spare knickers, clothes, wipes and nappy bags so if they do have to clean her up, they've got everything they need. They added gloves to the bag as they have to wear them. To start with, they didn't help clean herself up and she'd come home with a sore bottom and in a bit of a mess but now, they do tend to help her as much as possible. In her reception class, they do have regular TA help so there is usually someone to leave with the class but I guess in schools where there is only the teacher for a lot of the time, it might be more difficult to leave the class and help clear up. The school did say originally that they would call me to come and help clear her up if there was a problem but that was more due to her sensitivity rather than them not wanting to help.
My 6 year old cousin is autistic and I think he's still in pull ups but the school don't mind, although I think they said they had to change him standing up as it was health and safety not to lie on the floor and he was obviously too big for a change table.
Have you spoken to your DCs pending school?
Does your child have a disability or is it that they are just not trained yet?

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catrin · 10/05/2007 10:27

Schools are not allowed to refuse admission on the basis of toiletting. The main problem for some is that they do not have a suitable changing area asnd they are expected to fund this themselves (depending on LEA I would imagine) and many schools cannot afford it/have no convertable space. Staffing is also an issue - some staff who are not SEN trained find it difficult changing an older child. Specialist equipment is also supposed to be used - hoists etc as staff are not supposed to lift. All very elaborate! But ultimately, if your dc needs changing, you are within your rights to expect this to be done.

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gess · 10/05/2007 10:32

CT when ds1 was at mainstream they wouldn't accept him in nappies. Luckily he managed to train himself the day before (seriously) he was due to start school. He was still very unreliable though. Mind you he refused to use the toilets at that school anyway.

I have friends who have children with toiletting problems (non ASD related). 2 friends. 2 different schools- the shcools have been happy to change wet pants, but the Mums have been called in for poo accidents. Hopeless imo- your best bet is for a sympathetic teacher.

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Joggeroo · 10/05/2007 10:47

continence policy

bit of a soap box of mine, but as I see it continence is a developmental milestone, just one a lot of people-particuarly foundation stage people (our Pre-school for eg) have a thing about. After all, if a child couldn't drink from an open cup, they wouldn't phone you to go into school to give them a drink. the above document 9hope the like works) is good and also has a bit on Child Protection which is one reason staff use to refuse to changfe nappies, good luck

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gess · 10/05/2007 11:42

wow - that's good - I'm going to link to that on my wesite - I know this is an issue for many.

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coppertop · 10/05/2007 11:44

Luciemule - ds2 is autistic. He wears nappies rather than pull-ups but is always changed while standing-up. Most of the time he will actually do it himself. The class usually has a teacher, a TA and a nursery nurse.

I heard, via a reliable source, that the teacher (not the one that ds1 had) wasn't keen on ds2 being in nappies because of a supposed lack of facilities. I strongly suspect that the SENCO has no idea that this has been said but wanted to be prepared just in case.

I'm hoping/praying that ds2 will be out of nappies by then but atm it's not looking good. He can now tolerate wearing pants for a few minutes (a huge achievement for him) and this is being gradually increased but I think it's going to take a long time. The main barrier is sensory-related, I think.

Joggeroo - That's a fantastic link. I'm going to print a couple of copies.

Thanks for the help and ideas everyone.

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MrsWho · 10/05/2007 19:22

Facilities - would mean either yellow bin/maserator and larger cubicle/changing room than the others need so not completely mad .

Though if a school is going to have children with SN attending they will have to accept things like that

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coppertop · 11/05/2007 10:09

They have a toilet for the disabled, although not next to the Reception class. The classroom itself is also relatively new so you would think that they would've taken these kinds of things into consideration when designing/building it. I think I would've understood it a little more if it had been an old building or old classroom.

Thanks for the info about what they mean by facilities, MrsWho.

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MrsWho · 11/05/2007 19:28

Is the toilet for the diabled actually aimed at the kids?I have been in a school before where there was one for adults but not for the kids

Most schools the specific toilet won't be next to the classroom as it willbe used by most of the school rather than have one in each.

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gess · 11/05/2007 22:32

agree mrswho. Ds1 wouldn;t use the toilets at ms school (too noisy/dark/smelly). It was suggested he could use the diabled toilets. looks of horror all round.

When we went to look at his special school he used the toilet- i knew it was the right place

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MrsWho · 11/05/2007 23:07

We have a few who don't like the fans, but they have to be fitted by planning regs (or something) so then we have disconnect them!

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coppertop · 12/05/2007 15:55

The disabled toilet is for the adults but ds1 (6) is allowed to use it for getting changed in when he's had a toileting accident at breaktimes, as long as a dinnerlady or other member of staff waits outside the door for him. Children are also allowed to use it (with permission) at after-school events when the classroom areas are locked.

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mum24boyz · 13/05/2007 13:13

again havent read all replies but my ds3 started school in sept, still in nappies, the school recieved a proper changing table which is situated in the children disabled toilets, his 1-1 went on a special course through the school, presumably a moving and handling type of course, the only request they made was that i sent him in pull ups not nappies which i had intended to do anyway as they dont look as obvious. i had to sign a consent form for him to be changed in school, usually his 1-1 that changes him and she's even decorated around the changing table for him to brighten it up a bit, i guess i am very lucky where all thats concerned but i have recently found out its the 2nd best school in our area for sn services, hope you manage to get it sorted.

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coppertop · 13/05/2007 13:50

Wow! The school sounds excellent, Mum24boyz. Sometimes it's the little things like that which can make all the difference IMHO.