Can anyone help me with DS(7) toilet issues

[JenLindleyShitMom]

DS is currently awaiting assessment by behavioural therapist, autism consultant and paediatrician. He has all sorts of issues going on and one of them is that he never toilet trained with regards to pooing. Peeing he got no problem aged 3. As I said he is on the waiting list to see the paediatrician for this.

What I want help with is getting him to either tell me when he has soiled or to go and change himself. Currently he doesn't do either and gets very angry when I ask him if he has soiled (even when it is very obvious he has). He tells me to stop treating him like a baby. it's worth noting that his dad and step mum were punishing him for having accidents until very recently and only through social services intervention at my request have they finally, at least outwardly, accepted this is most likely a medical issue and he isn't deliberately doing it. So there has been a lot of confusing messages for DS regarding this and it's understandable he doesn't feel great about it. From my perspective it has never been punished or reprimanded. I've always just said "ok let's get changed" and mostly he does, sometimes he will refuse and deny there has been an accident.

So how do I get him to let me know as soon as an accident has happened? I am really trying to tiptoe around this because he is so sensitive about it and I want to get it right.

Also, is there anything I can do to get his bowels moving in the morning before school so that he might use the toilet before he goes? Most mornings he refuses breakfast but I'm trying to encourage him to get into the way of it.

[JenLindleyShitMom]

Hopeful bump

[JenLindleyShitMom]

Oh thanks polter I'll ask HQ if they can move it.

[YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet]

Hi OP, we'll move this over for you now.

[JenLindleyShitMom]

Thanks Becky

[KingsHeathen]

Interesting question, my DS behaves like this- he is very angry and affronted if you ask him to go to the loo, or to change his soiled pants.
I think some of the time, he doesn't know he needs to go, because he's had constipation issues previously, and I think he's a bit desensitised around his bottom. And then, of course, he's embarrassed that he's done it. I think you've got the right approach - no comment, no reprimand, just clean up. I don't know how his condition is, but can he clean up himself? Or start the process?
Re going in the morning, my DS doesn't usually eat enough to move his bowels every day. Is that an issue for your DS? My DD is v regular, but she eats heartily.

[KingsHeathen]

Groan, what I meant to say was... if he is embarrassed, could he have a signal or code he uses to let you know, so that no outward reference to the need to change is made?
Sounds crazy, but that really helped DS, as he felt it was concealed then (he doesn't like DD or DH knowing, even though they've been nothing but supportive and kind towards him regarding his soiling). We just have a little code phrase we use between us.

[Mamabear14]

My ds2 was almost 6 before he got the hang of actually pooing on the toilet. He knew when he needed to go though as he would ask for a nappy. The learning disability nurses made me a social story for him as for a lot of children it's like a loss of control and losing something that's theirs, even if it is poo!
Also when you think he needs to go will he sit on the toilet and blow bubbles? Apparently it's quite good for getting them to go.
There was even talk at one point of getting a special net in the toilet to catch the poo and we could ceremoniously say goodbye to it flushing it away!
Do you think he just genuinely doesn't realise or that he quite likes the sensation of it (it's quite warm) and that's why he's getting defensive when asked to change.
Not sure I'm much help but it's just things I remember discussing when I thought he would be in nappies for a poo at 25!

[JenLindleyShitMom]

Thanks everyone.

I think some of the time, he doesn't know he needs to go, because he's had constipation issues previously, and I think he's a bit desensitised around his bottom.

I suspect this is the situation for DS too. I've never been convinced that he knows when he needs to go and I've never been aware of him actually pooing. He doesn't seem to make any sort of faces or signs that he is doing it but again at 7 he is often off in another room or sitting down playing Lego so it won't always be when I'm paying attention.

I don't know how his condition is, but can he clean up himself? Or start the process?

Yes he can. Until a few months ago I was doing it every time but I worked with him firstly letting him do the final wipe so he knew what clean looked like on the toilet roll and then we graduated to him doing the whole clean up with me present and now he doesn't want me to come in when he is cleaning himself but he lets me check afterwards if he is clean.

my DS doesn't usually eat enough to move his bowels every day. Is that an issue for your DS? My DD is v regular, but she eats heartily.

He does go most days. Very rarely we have a day where he hasn't gone.

The code is a great idea!

Also when you think he needs to go will he sit on the toilet and blow bubbles?

This is a good idea too, although I'm it sure how long that would entertain him and he is very aware of being patronised. Maybe we could do his reading on the loo, he does like reading a lot.

Do you think he just genuinely doesn't realise or that he quite likes the sensation of it (it's quite warm)

I'm really not sure. He definitely knows if he has had an accident if I ask him "are your pants clean or do you need to get changed?" Sometimes he will deny it but I know when he is lying. And sometimes he will say he needs to change. But I am not getting any signs to say he knows when it is happening or when it is about to. If I ask if he needs to sit on the toilet the answer is always no.

I am also a big fan of the in-built-reward (in built negatives are often winners to but more tricky to instil).

What are in built rewards/negatives?


He has a little trampoline so I'll bring it back in from the garden and maybe he'll do some jumping each day. He is very active. Constantly cartwheeling or tumbling.

Thanks for all this. It's a good start.

[JenLindleyShitMom]

Ok I will try that polter. I don't keep a diary but will start one and see if a pattern emerges.

[Ekorre]

My 6yo has an ASD diagnosis and is similar. I think with him its a concentration and transitions thing. So he doesn't want to interrupt Lego/tv/anything to have to go to another room and sit on the toilet. Poo is much worse than a pee, I think because its a much bigger sensation than a pee. He sometimes says its scary. Sometimes he rants about how it is boring to have to go to the toilet.

He does a lot of jigging and wriggling and clenching feet because he holds it for so long, so I tell him I know he needs to go. He is mystified at how I know...

[JenLindleyShitMom]

Ahh thanks for explaining zzzz, that makes a lot of sense.

So he doesn't want to interrupt Lego/tv/anything to have to go to another room and sit on the toilet. Poo is much worse than a pee, I think because its a much bigger sensation than a pee. He sometimes says its scary. Sometimes he rants about how it is boring to have to go to the toilet.

ekore how do you persuade him to go? My DS just point bank refuses and even a simple suggestion that he needs to makes him really angry and he will shout "no!" storm off and shout that he's not a baby and he hates me. Often tears too. That is the standard response to me saying "do you need to toilet?"

[JenLindleyShitMom]

I did try that at one point. I made us all use the toilet and even DS1 (11) got on board by pretending he needed a big poo to try and encourage DS2 but he is so stubborn if he doesn't want to he just won't and it is far less stressful to just say "OK, are you sure? Let's go". But that was a while ago so it's worth trying again. He's too smart though, he knows when I have an agenda

[KingsHeathen]

I say things like "Does Luke need to go and bomb the Death Star?" or "do the pirates need to throw their bounty overboard?". He gets it!

[JenLindleyShitMom]

these are great ideas!!

[JenLindleyShitMom]

It really is!

I don't know anyone IRL who has been through this, and appointments for assessment are taking forever! I feel like I'm just left to guess how best to deal with it. It's so good to have someone to ask about it.

[KingsHeathen]

Um, sorry, I didn't say upthread, but my 7yo is actually my NT child...
DD (AS) has never had any issue in that dept, thankfully because we have enough to deal with there.
I do understand what it's like though

[JenLindleyShitMom]

Well DS has no diagnosis right now either. Still waiting for the assessment. Either way, it's good to hear what works for others.