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Quick one- can a child have anxiety / attachment problem cause by traumatic birth?

(85 Posts)
Waitingforsleep Thu 20-Oct-16 19:22:44

Latest from camhs. Could this happen? Is this what explains Dd behaviour? Or is this camhs?

PolterGoose Thu 20-Oct-16 19:49:34

It's highly unlikely/impossible from my understanding.

Look at the latest DSM5 criteria

They're really clutching at straws angry

Waitingforsleep Thu 20-Oct-16 19:54:01

They say this is why Dd explodes with anger etc amongst other reasons ? I'm looking into putting a case together for the maudsley or somewhere but have gone to my appointments in the meantime. It's what the art therapist says she thinks and is working on.so is this crap then?

Waitingforsleep Thu 20-Oct-16 19:54:50

She has dx of anxiety

PolterGoose Thu 20-Oct-16 19:57:22

I'm not a professional, and don't know your dd, so I can't judge. But it sounds like typical CAMHS fobbing off.

You either need a professional onside to support and advocate for you and dd or you need to get a decent multi-disciplinary assessment done privately.

GingerAndTheBiscuits Thu 20-Oct-16 19:58:53

Surely depends how traumatic it was? If you were separated for a considerable period then there may be some impact but I would have thought the birth itself, assuming no physical effects, wouldn't have an emotional impact

Waitingforsleep Thu 20-Oct-16 20:08:46

The birth was horrendous and I think I had some PTSD from it sad
I was crying whilst trying to give birth it went on for nearly two days, Drs were arguing, I was panicking and yes I think I had some pnd after it too. I feel terrible as I didn't have the flush of love I felt awful

Waitingforsleep Thu 20-Oct-16 20:09:36

We made a formal complaint to the hospital but it took us a while as a couple we were both traumatised

MrsSam Thu 20-Oct-16 21:13:18

I had a particularly traumatic birth with DS4, in the end we went for emergency section. The unit was crazy busy and I was deeply traumatised after the event. DS4 has NO anxiety what so ever. DS3 was stuck, navy blue when he was born and I had a retained placenta which needed theatre, he does have anxiety. My own birth was not traumatic, I have suffered from bouts of extreme anxiety over the years. My brothers birth was very traumatic and he is the most laid back person I have never met. It's not a black and white, yes or no answer.

There has been suggestion that traumatic birth can contribute to a number of behavioural and neurological conditions but I don't believe there is conclusive proof which stands up to scrutiny.

Waitingforsleep Thu 20-Oct-16 21:21:33

Thanks for sharing! It just doesn't help me decide whether to persue a case for a tier 4 asd assessment, just don't know what to do who to go to etc and feel the years are passing by without answers sad

AllwaysCarryMashems Thu 20-Oct-16 22:01:53

Have they worded it exactly like that? Truamatic birth can in extreeme cases where there is also no help to resolve problems afterwards be linked as a starting point of negative attachment patterns & camhs rUley out attachment problems before they consider developmental disorders.

Truamatic birth, especially very prem or very oxygen deprived is considered a factor that can activate the genetic component of developmental disorders. (Harvard have a huge meta analysis of all the credible studies that tie this in as an influential factor with asd. There's lots more that link to adhd & dysoraxia & my NHS information leaflets on risk of twins birth said increased chance of adHD if prem.

Could they have been getting at either of these things? Or did they littlerally word it as the birth itself caused anxiety to be present all these years later? Cause if they did then no they are just being fuckwits

zzzzz Thu 20-Oct-16 23:02:53

I have NO medical training but my personal opinion is it's highly unlikely. I think being separated from your baby for any length of time (as I was with one of mine) can make you more anxious and did prey on my mind but lasting anxiety in the child seems a reach.

Waitingforsleep Fri 21-Oct-16 06:50:00

Yes they did word it like that. Dd has had these problems since birth it's not something that has just come on and we have been in the nhs system for 6 years had two asd assessments which both say anxiety. Follow up treatment is art therapy and the therapist said about attachment and then said if there has been a traumatic birth which was unresolved it set the pattern and that the art therapy will be for Dd to try to process this?
However she did say she was keeping an eye out for other things going on as I did say I thought Dd may have asd.
Dd has lack of dominant hand which means her two sides of the brain are not integrated and she said that art therapy helps with this and that this is also common with children who have had trauma...

What do I do? Go along with this for a little while as I suppose it will either work or it won't or go back and say that's rubbish?

Waitingforsleep Fri 21-Oct-16 06:51:25

I also think Dd may have dyspraxia as well as or rather than asd

PolterGoose Fri 21-Oct-16 07:21:30

The art therapy sounds like unscientific woo to me, sorry.

It's only you who can decide a path to follow.

You could start by doing some research yourself.

Waitingforsleep Fri 21-Oct-16 07:43:34

Don't be sorry! No one is listening to me here though.
I will have to make my case for gosh or maudsley then whilst the art therapy runs alongside. I don't know who funds it all and can see that as a battle too

Waitingforsleep Fri 21-Oct-16 07:43:56

Listening to me in terms of camhs and Drs etc not mums et

PolterGoose Fri 21-Oct-16 08:08:02

I think you need to really read up, look at NICE guidelines, look at research, trawl the NAS site. To advocate well you need to be well informed.

Waitingforsleep Fri 21-Oct-16 08:16:50

Yes I agree but I have and have quoted the nice guidelines but just going round In circles. Will formulate something more concrete and send to the peaditrican I think it's just all so depressing as I feel like I'm going mad at being told I'm wrong all the time

zzzzz Fri 21-Oct-16 09:58:58

Personally I would not let some barking "art therapist" who thinks she/he can "fix" dcshandedness through art within spitting distance of my child.shock

Go with your gut. A brace strong Mother will take your child farther then any of this frankly wish washy nonsense.

zzzzz Fri 21-Oct-16 09:59:33

Brave not brace.

Waitingforsleep Fri 21-Oct-16 10:25:52

Thanks will persue the private avenues and keep updated for anyone else who can relate in the future

Willow505 Fri 21-Oct-16 10:33:40

Hi Waiting

We have had a very positive experience with CAMHS, but something similar to this did come up for us at the beginning. What I have learnt is to be careful to consider who is saying what. My understanding is that only the psychiatrist can actually diagnose conditions, but others (e.g. psychologists, therapists etc.) may speculate verbally and you need to take this with a pinch of salt.

A good therapist/psychologist will work with your DD as she presents, irrespective of a diagnosis.

I've read a lot about the link between ASD and traumatic birth, and my (tenuous) understanding is that it is increasingly thought that it is the other way around - ASD contributes to the traumatic birth (as it was there since conception) not the traumatic birth causing ASD. I'm no doctor, though!

zzzzz Fri 21-Oct-16 10:40:01

How can a neurological condition contribute to a traumatic birth??? confused

Having a baby is basically like doing a big poo. Babies with ASD are physically the same as nt babies. What is going on in their tiny noddles is not going to effect how they are or aren't squeezed out.

Craftyoldhen Fri 21-Oct-16 11:00:54

I think it might be due to positioning at birth. For instance my DD was brow presentation, which means she was trying to come out with her head tipped back (forehead first) rather then tucking her head down chin to chest and coming out with the back of her head first.

As the forehead is the widest part of the head she got stuck. So long traumatic labour and eventually emcs.

She has ASD but also dyspraxia and sensory difficulties particularly proprioception and vestibular.

I guess it's not beyond the realms of possiblility that her motor and sensory difficulties were already present in the womb, and might have contributed to her awkward positioning during labour.

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