A few questions please (ASD)

[PeachyClair]

OK, these are ds3 not sam, ds3 appears to be classical autism, rather than HFA like Sam. Which is proving interesting in that we have a whole set of new challenges LOL!

1. DS3 laughs when he hears the word NO. I ahev heard JiimJams (I think) say her son likes the word, ds3 seems to be the same. No matter how angry or sad we make our faces when we do it. Any tips for reinforcing behaviours? He doesn't understand rewards, he doesn't have the language.

1. When out and about he tends to just go down ojn the grounsd / pull at random. Should we put him back in a buggy? (hasn't ahd one since August)

1. Clothes... how do I keep some on him????? Help! Its cold here!

Seeing Paed soon, but she'll just have to start the process of reports, will take ages yet.


Out other worry I suppose is school. he starts the local school (anyone who knows our history will know I am going HELP!) in September, yet he can manage under 30 words, all i=either item related or self specific. he doesn't have imagination, pay much attention to non familiar kids, has lost toilet training yet again, has absences, doesn't do reciprocal emotions..... help! Will the ed Psych who has been asked to do a report have any advice, or even consider this at this stage? Its clearly going to go tits up unless something dramatic happens to his development in the meantime. I was aked to make a robin with jim for nursery last night, sat down and he couldn't do ANYTHING- even sit down reliable. The other kids are colouring, talking..... Harry wouldn't even make a mark, didn't want to understand what I meant when I asked.
I acnnot get an answer out of nursery, they just nod knowingly but the truth is they DON'T know, they don't normallya ccept kids like Harry, it was just that we didn't really cotton on how severe it was all getting.

[PeachyClair]

nothing, as yet. being rushed through the waiting list due to Sam's history. I will admit to self diagnosis of him, but Do have some \ASd knowledge by now LOL!

he's 3.5, starts school 3 weeks after 4th burthday which is BIG concern.

Some of the routine things and obsessions- tehy;'re just exaccerbated examples of Sam's behaviour (if all the other toys in thew workd combusted but he had Thomas, he's be OK). And he seems to be developing a copmplete lack of safety awareness outside, which Sam has too. And the routines- !!! Sam likes a routine oh yay, but harry- ! he wouldn't eat for a bit, turned out the bin was moved. And at nursery he went on hunger srrike, different colour cup.

[PeachyClair]

Oh Nursery have mentioned statementing, and I am in the mifddle with Sam atm. Is that really going to be enough though? Dha nd I laugh at the idea of him at a scjhool obsessed by both religion and academic success, but its not funny really. Developmentally, he's 18 months I would guess.

[PeachyClair]

I would love that, tbh- we have an excellent, ASD friendly Cm who would adore having him for an extra year. But he's in their nnursery year and they've said he ahs to start at 4 or forfeit the place. .

Schoo, see,s to think I'll get atstement and DX in a few weeks, I know this is crud by experience. What then? The Sn school won't take him without a DX (if there is an sn school- none of the kdis at sn rugby access one, they're all ms kids).

The language Harry is, does seem to be echolalia based tbh. Apart from about ten words, he just repeats the last word you said ocer and over.

[Saker]

We were in a similar position with Ds2 whose birthday is also in August. We applied for him to delay school entry by a year. In the end he actually got a place at a special unit in the following Jan so he wasn't delayed by a year, just a term. However he wouldn't have got that place except that he was in a position to take it (since he was old enough but not having started at another school). If we hadn't got the place we would have not sent him to mainstream until the following September (in fact we would have tried for a special school place again in Sept).

Some LEA's are more flexible than others about keeping a child back a year. Ours is pretty strict and we had to agree it with the headmaster of our school plus Ds2 was seen by an educational pyschiatrist who recommended it. However, legally you don't have to send your child to school until the term after their 5th birthday - so you could just not send him anyway. The downside may be that if this was not agreed in advance that they will try and put him straight into Year 1 when he does go which would be even worse. However it would give you more time to sort something out if you needed it or to try and get a place at a special school if that is what you wanted.

[Saker]

Do you know for sure that the Special school wouldn't take him without diagnosis. That shouldn't be the case. Ds2 has no diagnosis and got a place at the unit he is in and we are now trying to get a place at a full special school - diagnosis hasn't been an issue.

[PeachyClair]

At the moment we have zero contact wioth anyone bar the GP regarding him, HV refused to refer because she couldn't come to the house to assess (Sam was freaking out when she did), so Sn school would be like- who are they?? there's no facility to start January, the school is funded bizarrely andmakes its own rules. As they go along, from what I can see tbh. They also HATE sn kdis with a vengeance. Trsut me on that, I've had enough of it.

Cm can't see how he will cope. Nursery can't see it. School won't discuss it.

[PeachyClair]

(he is stuck on long lists for SALt, Ed Psych btw)

[nikkie]

The Dx wouldn't be aprobelm for the Sn school but IME they don't usually take kids without a statement unless they are very obiously getting one and at nursery/prenursery age.

Have you got a special school locally Peachy?I would speak to them, at our school we have kids on the 'radar' and they are in contact with some of them (we also have a toddler group and some attend that)

[coppertop]

I know when I had to apply for a place at a school for ds2 it said that the school had to keep the place for your child. Could you request that he start in January or even next Easter, even if only to buy you some time while you start assessments and/or statementing? If you can get a statement you could legally wait until next September and get him into a special school maybe?

[PeachyClair]

School ahev said that they need a statement for Harry, those of you that know our school would understand why I am at that! they're muttering about 1 - 1 support, tbh I think (by the Heads evil grin) that they're looking to place him elsewhere. Do they nt relaise that's what I want???? That I am not battling them to annoy them (that's only a side benefit, smug Head ), just to get my kids a chance?

think I will chat to the Ed Psych if and when they turn up about delaying start for a yuear, and talk to the CM. I think she'd love to have him, but I'd need to get his palce booked- I ahven't given her notice yet though.

So, if he gets a staement am I legally entitled to delay the atsrt date? I can't see how they cannot statement him: I know Sam was touch and go, but a child of 3.5 who stands in his own urine and doesn't even notice isn;t going to cope, period.

The language is improving a bit- but that's with intensive work, which school couldn't give him. It's still what is described as stage 2 though, under 50 words, all centred around him and his immediate needs. A nd there's little reciprocal language iykwim- he can reply his name when asked directly (that took bloody months to achieve), the knowledge he is a boy was there for a bit but has vanished again. he answers yes when asked if he is alright, don't think he knows what I am on about- just copied the boys doingt hat ten or twelve times a day! otherwise, when asked questions he mostly blanks. Sometimes you think he ahs a concept down pat- then off it goes again, never to return.


I fella wfulr eally, we've been so focused on Sam we didn't relaise until last summer how badly behind he was

[Saker]

I don't think you should blame yourself at all - I have seen from your other threads how much you have on your plate and this sort of thing is where you should be getting plenty of outside support and advice.

You are legally entitled to delay his start date anyway until after the time he is five. As I say the only downside is that if he did then go into mainstream they might try and put him straight into Year 1. But hopefully by that time you would have got a statement and you could have got more support in place and a diagnosis etc. It is better if you can get permission to delay his start date and get something in writing. It is partly up to the school as well and if you can get them to agree that he can start a year's later in Reception then you are well on the way. I would be blunt with them about the potential problems - after all there is no advantage to them in taking him unable to cope and without support in September.

I don't think getting a statement would automatically entitle you to delay his start date unless that was written into the statement. You may not feel so much need to delay if he did have a statement or a place at special school. That was the case with us.

Do you get Portage? Tied up with our portage was a Preschool worker person who's job it was to sort out school and funding and help you apply for statements. I suspect we were lucky with that though and such a person doesn't exist everywhere.

At least whatever else you don't have to send him to school this September if you are able to get the childminder to take him for longer and she sounds great. I really sympathise. I used to feel sick to the stomach of the thought of sending Ds2 into mainstream even with support and let alone without. I still do.

[Jimjams2]

aww Peachy I'd be careful about school. Does he understand things like circle time? (ds1 didn;t he just stood on the tables whilst the ms children laughed at him).

What special school places are there? What sp[ecialist provision. My tip to anyone considering it is to go round and see if there are any children like your own in the school. We went to 2 SLD schools, one had about 2 children like ds1- hemmed into a corner and described as "difficult", we went to the other SLD school and couldn't move for falling over children like ds1, all looking happy, taking part, sitting down in circle time (after ms school I thought that would be impossible). After ds1 started he just came on in leaps. So at mainstream after4 terms he couldn't do 1 minute (literally) in assembly. Mid way through his first terms at special school I went to a special assembly and he sat for an hour. I couldn;t believe it.

If you think he is complex, has limited understanding etc then you'll need him to be taught by people who understand the issues, and his difficulties and how to teach him. MS schools generally can't cope with that. \

What's his imitation like? If poor I would take that as a sign not to go near mainstream tbh.

[Jimjams2]

oh as regards getting into SN school. I decided that mainstream wasn't coping in November, I rang ed psych, she agreed- ds1 went to panel about 2 weeks later, and started in January- that doesn't have to be long and drawn out.

I'd apply for a statement myself in your position- that will bring him to people's attention.

[PeachyClair]

I took Dh through all the information sites last night- lots have developmental checklists on, seems DS meets criteria for both developmental delay and autism, and we've missed lots of red flag emergency signs over the lasy few years- such as no pointing by 1, or regression at stages- and DH is STILL saying 'he'll catch up, he's alright. Look he's repeating what you said'. yes dear, in an echo format- but how do you know if thats good or echolalia???? Its true that DS has strated pointing sometimes (still fond of teh pulling and screeching methos though) and yesterday he put 4 words together. But knowing him, its a one off.

So I keep ythinking its me, I panicking and Dh is right, just leave him. But on one site he ahdn't fit the targets for two in speech fields and some others. And alst night we went out, he wet himself then merrily sat in it for ages before we kknew, we've had to go and buy waterproof pants after several months of being mainly dry.

I'm confused.

He does eye contact- sometimes. he responds to his name- about 40% of the time. He has developed a few imitative skills, when he's not blanking out everyone. All he wants to do is sit and stare at DVD's (he scremas if you try not to put them on) or play with Thomas. And the only way I acn get him to eat is with a strict routine of foods.

But Dh says don't worry he'll catch up and makes me feel like I am panicking.

[Jimjams2]

For starting school it doesn't matter so much where his speech etc is- although he sounds as if he has the potential to do well- it matters whether or not he'll understand to sit in the circle at circle time, to sit quietly in assembly etc.

Ds2 started nursery at 2, ds3 started at 21 months. Both understood intrinsically that they had to copy the other children. So when the children sat down, they did, when the children painted, they tried to paint, when they sat down for lunch they followed. Even my majorly stroppy wants his own way all the time ds3 understood that at 21 months (and I did wonder sending him in if he would).

That's the biggest difference between ds1 and them, and caused the biggest problems at mainstream. DS1 wasn't being difficult- he just had no idea that he was meant to behave like the other children (still doesn't). It's never occured to him. Mainstream really relys on that understanding, without it it all goes to pot tbh.

[PeachyClair]

No he can't do that, for ages at Nursery they made him sit but now they seem to have given up, its just not possible, he doesn't understand. Taht's the biggest thing I guess- lots of children ca't speak I know, harry doesn't understand. Anything much. If he's in a blank he doesn't even respond to you waving your hands across his face, or yelling in his ear. For ages they thought he was deaf, but trests showed he's not.

Nursery ahev expressed severe concerns about him going on- school is bassed on twice daily assembly, they do work from day 1, none of this receotion is for play alrk here (unfortunately). It said on one site he should be able at 3 to draw lines and cricles- ha! pens are scribbled, not looked at then discarded.

Words are erratic too, reliably he says no, mum, choochoo, dvd, this way, egg, shake shake shake and my. ohter words come and go.
Items don't have names they're just isone (this one).

I guess I just ahve to ahve confidence- Nursery refffered him it wasn't parental request. They ahve him on early years action apaprently (equivalent tos chool action?) which I only learned from a form I have a copy of.

One thing i did notice at a recent party is he completely blanked every child there from Nursery, after a few months he ahd no idea they were known to him, and didn't even look to se tbh. This family is his world, with the Cm and her family. beyond that is no-no.