can see expelled soon

[diamondmoon]

Had a thread about my ds 7 he very close to being expelled he hitting kicking throwing chairs most days. I still waiting for assessment at hospital so that apt could take months. I feel sick all the time

[StarfrightMcFangsie]

What thread?

Has he an EHCP?

What is he going to the hospital for?

[ruthsmaoui77]

I feel so sorry for you. I don't really have any advice other than try and be kind to yourself. This is a very scary time both for you and your ds. My ds was given a fixed term exclusion at the age of 5 for running out of school, he also used to throw pencils, knock over / kick chairs. It has improved as he has grown older but he still has his moments sadly - he is 9 now and has ASD. We moved to a school right next to our home which I think helped a great deal as he was so much less tired. Try and get him to bed early as poor sleep can really impact upon behaviour. I am sure you are already trying all manner of rewards/sanctions. I found trying to start each day afresh the best one telling him "you can do it", "remember how good it feels to do the right thing" and really making a fuss of him if he managed to have a great day and an even bigger fuss/ reward for managing a whole week. Similarly I put him to bed extra early if he has misbehaved and remove laptop, D.S, any type of electronic devices because he has to feel the consequences for poor behavior. But I have learnt not to be too harsh with the punishments as they just backfire, he gets used to constantly being punished. In this negative cycle his self-esteem becomes very low indeed which makes him more likely to misbehave. Good luck and take care of yourself. Big hugs. {{{{}}}}}

[diamondmoon]

This is all very new he never had any problems in the infants so no one knows why he being like this. Gp did a referral to see consultant to assess if anything medical. But as ok before his dad and some staff convinced it's him being naughty.

[ruthsmaoui77]

How worrying for you all. I think it is a good idea to rule out anything medical, especially if this is new and out of character behaviour. Have there been any recent changes/events that could be upsetting him? I honestly believe that when children misbehave they are trying to communicate something to adults. He could be anxious or frightened of something. Is everything alright at school? Do you suspect he has special educational needs and has been coping up until now or perhaps not - I know year 3 can be very hard and a great transition for many children, with and without sen. The infants is more about playing but when they get to the juniors the expectations are so much greater. Good luck finding what is causing this xxx

[StarfrightMcFangsie]

Have you seen the consultant?

[GruntledOne]

What is the school doing to support him? Have they involved the behavioural support service or an educational psychologist?

[diamondmoon]

A behaviour specialist has been in. Have asked few times for ed psych and keeping being told no

[StarfrightMcFangsie]

What behaviour specialist. Where did they come from and what were their qualifications? Also, what were their conclusions?

[GruntledOne]

Is the school saying he is on the brink of being excluded? The guidance on exclusions says that can only be a last resort after they've tried everything to avoid it, including getting expert advice on possible SEN. I would suggest that if they threaten it again you point that out to them and suggest they need to get an EP in urgently. Also suggest to them that you both ask for an EHC needs assessment.

[diamondmoon]

If he nearly threw a chair at the head teacher so that's why it was said. We just done early help assessment. Behaviour specialist we still waiting for her report they are used by school. The school have provided time out cards and he has thinking table to go to a LSA all the time sensory circuit nurture group but he getting worse he runs off which is a problem he no respect for anybody there. Do school have duty to get ed psych in as they say no they have to pay for him

[Marshmallow09er]

Hi Diamondmoon

I remember your first post - I really feel for you as I have a son (ASD) who can be violent at school (well and at home). It's very hard.

Have you called IPSEA or SOSSEN regarding what that school is legally obliged to do for your son? You don't need a diagnosis. The school need to be addressing his behaviour regardless.
My son is most violent when he is anxious - things like assembly in the hall, the loud dining area, lining up, sitting still, speaking out loud in class, playtime (indeed, most of what school requires him to be / do!)

From what I remember your son is juniors age so the pressure of Key Stage 2 will be building up. It's often a time the cracks really begin to show.

All this builds and builds until they are in constant fight or flight mode - and very often it's fight for my son.
If the school can't meet his needs then they need to address this too.
Sorry you are going through it - you are not alone.

The posters above me are all extremely knowledgable and without their advice over the years I don't know what I would have done.

[Marshmallow09er]

(Addressing his behaviour sounds bad - support his needs which his behaviour is trying to communicate to them is more what I meant)

[diamondmoon]

Thanks I will look at calling them for advice. My ds is in year 3 and is never quiet but doing all what your child is doing. School keep saying they struggling to keep everybody safe

[diamondmoon]

My ds is doing both fight and flight depends what's triggered him. He has head teacher chasing him around the school some days and been suspended for that today as well as the chair incident.

[OneInEight]

I remember that sick feeling waiting for the phone to ring only too well.

My ds's fell apart a year later in Year 4 but the same situation of being basically OK till then and then terrible meltdowns, school refusal and running away at school.

Our school was not great but compared to yours it was brilliant! The HT admitted they did not know how to solve the issue but at least referred us to the agencies that might have been able to offer support.

It might be worth a call to the LA's exclusion officer. Their job is as much to prevent exclusions as to deal with the aftermath. Ours was very helpful and suggested avenues of support that the HT did not know about. I am sure they would be very interested to know that your HT is offering no support and should give them a kick up the backside. It was also helpful to know what would happen if one of the ds's was permanently excluded.

Ultimately ds1 was permanently excluded but although we were devastated at the time it was the best thing that could have happened to him because it meant he got a place at a school that could meet his needs and he is so much the happier for it.

[GruntledOne]

It's not that they specifically have a duty to get an EP in, but if they exclude him they have to demonstrate that they've tried everything they can to avoid it, including considering whether he has special needs and getting advice on dealing with them. Also they have a general duty to assess whether children have SN and ensure that they are properly supported. OneInEight's suggestion of calling the exclusion officer is an excellent one, and hopefully he or she will remind them of their duties.

[ruthsmaoui77]

Thank you OneinEight your post has made me feel so much better. Just as I was saying that things have improved with my 9 year old son I get the dreaded call from school. DS has a fixed term exclusion (2 days) for punching a boy on the nose - the boy in question taunts my son on a regular basis because he has ASD and today the boy pushed my son. My son couldn't control his anger and punched him, which is unacceptable behaviour. My son should have walked away and told a teacher, but he didn't. He knows the right things to do but really struggles to control his emotions. Obviously I am devastated that he has another fixed term exclusion. This is his third and he is only 9, but what you said OneinEight has made me feel better. This exclusion will help us to get a EHCP and then he will be able to access the support he needs. I have given him school work to do and talked through what he should have done in that situation (as I have done numerous times before). I will put him to bed early and he has not been allowed on his laptop or to play with his D.S console. I have told him how disappointed I am in his behaviour and the fact that he made the wrong choice, but I reassured him that I still love him very much. I have had a good cry myself but after reading your post I feel better. I haven't been a member of MN long but already I feel more supported than ever before. Thank you.

[diamondmoon]

Since sept he has been suspended 6 full day and 3 half days. They think they doing a good job but I not sure what help the behaviour specialist will be. They agreed to stop calling me but I can't control himself so if he threatens head again he will be out.

[diamondmoon]

Oneineight was your ds diagnosed with anything or what it behavioural. Is he still mainstream?

[ruthsmaoui77]

When you say 'out' do you mean permanently excluded? I am sorry you are having such a tough time. It's really horrible. I know how you feel.

[diamondmoon]

Yes expelled I mean he has hit his class teacher all ready two times and he nearly threw chair at the head so if that happens I am sure he will have no more chances again

[ruthsmaoui77]

I would certainly contact the LA and ask to speak to the exclusion officer then as was suggested above. I can't believe they won't get a Educational Psychologist in to see him when things are so serious. This was the first thing the Head and SENCO reassured me today when I was called in about my sons exclusion. He won't see her until January, but he will be be assessed by the EP again to ensure the school can meet his needs. The school have also agreed to gather all the evidence for the EHCP.

[diamondmoon]

The head said he has decided to go down behaviour specialist route instead of ed psych

[tomatotoad]

Behaviour specialist could be anyone. The ones I know are (often retired) teachers, with no additional qualifications in assessment, which means that their reports carry little weight.
You find out in what way this person is qualified to assess your ds as the school will be implementing their recommendations.

[OneInEight]

My ds's were diagnosed with AS. Until we started having the challenging behaviour we put all the quirks down to them having odd parents but in retrospect there were a lot of signs there earlier on. We were told it is very common for issues to come out in juniors when there had been relatively few before. A behavioural specialist was the one agency that was not involved and I think at one point I counted up ten different agencies that were involved so I can't really comment on that. School did call in an EP fairly on who did give helpful advice if only school had followed it. The main thing that did make the difference for ds1 anyway was getting a statement and a placement at an EBD primary. They have a dreadful reputation in some areas but ours was absolutely brilliant with ds1 - small classes, high staff-pupil ratio, staff that understood him made all the difference.