son been suspended twice this week

[diamondmoon]

My son is 7 and I have had problems with his behaviour for a while but he was ok at school. He has got worse since July being very hyper had s horrendous summer hols and hol club could not control him so got kicked out. He started the junior school and each day been getting worse. Started off just not listening talking will not sit down. He has anger outbursts so kicks the kids lunch time he has to stay in and ignoring staff and running wild. He flips out very quick. He not concentrating and doing no work. On Monday he threw a chair at his teacher so suspended and today completely out of control and they couldn't calm in so suspended again. I going to take him to doctor as feel something not right but his dad my ex thinks he just being naughty. What if he gets expelled ?? He behaving very different to rest of kids so how is that normal? He also never cries at school when head etc telling him off

[Youarentkiddingme]

Urgh - the he's being naughty line.

I'm a believer that behaviour is a communicative function. So his anger is communicating something. I do not believe a child of 7 is throwing chairs and kicking his peers because he's enjoying it.

The clue is in your comment about him not being able to calm down.

Has anything changed? Have you always had concerns about his ability to communicate or his social/emotional development? You mention his behaviour has always been difficult at home - in what way?

what are school doing to put in support for your DS so he doesn't get angry and lose control and to prevent further exclusions?

Id suggest meeting with senco and perhaps head and ask them specifically what they plan to do to support your DS. Punishment will not help him learn to communicate his anger effectively or help him change his reactions if he can't identify what's causing him to feel this way. He's only 7.

[OneInEight]

My ds's developed similarly extreme behaviour in Year 4 having been relatively good until that point. Whilst school did sanction and exclude they at the same time did call in outside agencies (SALT, Community Paediatrician, CAMHS, Educational Psychologist) to see if there was a underlying cause and to help them put strategies in place to help reduce the challenging behaviour. Sanctions may work if a child is just being "naughty" but if there is an underlying cause such as stress, sensory overload or social communication difficulties then they are not likely to be effective. Make a list of all the behaviours (not just the "naughty" ones) that your ds does that are atypical from his peers and take that both to the GP and the school SENCO and ask for referrals as a matter of urgency.

[diamondmoon]

Thanks what was the outcome for your son?

[OneInEight]

Mine turned out to have AS. ds1 is now in a specialist school for children with an ASD and doing really well. Most of the challenging behaviour (at home and at school) disappeared as soon as he was being well supported. Possibly google ADHD, SPD (sensory processing disorder) as well to see if your ds shows any characteristics of those as well.

[Youarentkiddingme]

It was also year 4 when my son fell apart spectacularly. He'd always had problems socially and emotionally so it was a change in his behaviour towards frustration there no was no change in him iyswim?
He has asd too.

[diamondmoon]

Thanks he had been ok socially until now he has started to hurt his friends. When he goes to his dad's he isolates himself too many around and will not play just stays near his dad so I worry about that. Finding he copes better now one to one and acting out when too many or going quiet like with his dad. Emotionally for long time huge tantrums if I say no or if he upset he will throw everything at me. He runs off as well

[diamondmoon]

He has been allowed back to school but has to stay in office today and tomorrow but next week back in class so sure he will kick off again. I work part time but can't keep missing work. Head has written letter for the dr its heartbreaking reading it! That's little boy kids and staff are scared of. Asked for cahms referral but they not hopeful he will be considered

[moosemama]

Have you spoken to your GP at all?

My ds pretty much had a breakdown when he went into Y4 and that led, ultimately, to him being diagnosed with ASD just prior to his 9th birthday.

Everything from lesson structure to the social arena changes when they start the juniors and it's a very common point for children who have been masking or holding things together in infants to suddenly stop coping.

It's good that the HT has asked for a referral, but the quickest way to diagnosis for us, was to circumvent the school and go to the GP, who referred to a Paediatrician, who then referred to the ASD assessment unit for a multi-disciplinary assessment. Diagnostic pathways are different from area to area, but I would definitely speak to your GP about what's possible and where they can help. I was also able to refer ds to the Educational Psychology Crisis Team, but afaik, parents can no longer self-refer to them and I understand that it was pretty rare in the first place, but might be worth checking.

Then, as Yourarent said, you need a meeting with school to discuss what specific strategies they are going to use, whilst referral/assessment is taking place to ensure your ds is properly supported, so he doesn't reach the point where lashes out etc.

[diamondmoon]

Thanks for your reply I have heads report now so I can see dr about assessment. My worry is in the mean time he been kicked out twice this week what they doing not working so they don't know what to do. He never cries or shows emotion when they telling him off. I will ask about ed psych again senco said can take a year for them to help.

[GruntledOne]

Ask the school to get urgent advice from an educational psychologist and/or behaviour support worker - they should have quick response procedures in place for children at risk of exclusion. Also talk to them about applying for an Education Health and Care Plan: irrespective of how he is doing academically, if the reality is that the school can't cope with his behaviour and he is being excluded ever more frequently, then he needs more support than they are able to provide and he satisfies the criteria. Even if they don't agree, go ahead and ask for an EHC Needs Assessment: there is guidance on IPSEA's website about how to do this.

[diamondmoon]

Suspended again today for hitting his teacher on the arm! He supposed to have a LSA with him and once again she didn't step in to stop him. Had doctor apt and he doing referral either cahms or hospital specialist

[StarfrightMcFangsie]

Do these suspensions have accompanying official paperwork?

[diamondmoon]

Yes they do and I have to keep telling my work not in again

[StarfrightMcFangsie]

Has he been suspended before this year?

[diamondmoon]

Twice last week. He had no problems at school until starting year 3 getting worse each day

[Smartiepants79]

Would her stepping in resulted in him hitting her instead? It's not within her job description (and as a TA she is certainly not being paid enough) to put herself in harms way.
What are school putting in place to try and deal with this? Have they requested help from the ed psych etc? They need to be as proactive as you need to be.

[BlueBlueBelles]

Year four is when it went wrong for my son too. He is ASD.

We did get a Cahms referral, but we already had an ASD diagnosis.

With the not sitting still etc you should get a paed referral too. And ask for investigations into ASD and adhd at minimum.

Hope you're ok. Suspensions for violent conduct are heartbreaking as a parent. My heart sinks every time my phone rings at work :-(

[StarfrightMcFangsie]

That's good. You can now put in writing that you'd like their ideas on what is causing his behaviours given that he wasn't suspended in his previous setting (and if you want you can add 'and no behaviours at home') and also what action they are planning to take beyond suspension which is clearly a)not working and b)not enabling him to educated full-time which is what the law requires.

[BlueBlueBelles]

Sorry diamond missed today's post.

Does he have an IBP? How did he get to the teacher with the LSA there? Are you having a meeting with the school?

[diamondmoon]

Twice last week. He had no problems at school until starting year 3 getting worse each day

[diamondmoon]

Thanks for replies yes i feel sick seeing my phone ring and its school again. He has a red card which the ta should have shown him to get him to leave but that was not done. But think things happen so quick. The teachers and kids are scared of him. He not like that at home as much he tends to throw things or run away. Meeting on wed now X

[diamondmoon]

Well few week on and still awful. He been suspended another 3 times. Days he not sent home he been on timeout sometimes 4 or 5 times. He still getting angry hurting other kids. He runs away from all staff if he in wrong mood. The school have paid for a behaviour specialist to come in. We doing caf and I am still waiting for apts so he can be assessed. His dad thinks as he ok when he stays with him there nothing medically wrong. So what is causing his extreme behaviour?

[GruntledOne]

Have you asked for an EHC Needs assessment?

[ruthsmaoui77]

Big hugs diamondmoon xxxx . I know how it feels. My ASD son who is now 9 in year 5 has had periods of violent, destructive behaviour at school, as a result he has been suspended twice. It's so horrible for everyone in the family. When he starts to misbehave at school and then gets punished, he feels bad about himself which then causes him to behave worse at school - it becomes a vicious cycle. He seems to go through this phase roughly once a year, usually when he starts the new year or towards the end of the year. The phase can sometimes last a half term (about 6 weeks) sometimes less. I know that in the past when he gets into trouble especially when he got suspended I panicked and tried everything to make him behave, but the more I punished him (took toys away, no T.V, bed early) the worse he became. So I tried really hard to find more positive ways of dealing with it, like focussing on rewarding him for good days and this I have found to be more effective - but he can still have difficulties. Sometimes it can be really hard to reward a child and let them know how loved they are when they are behaving so badly at school - I know I felt this way and everyone around you tells you that you have to be stricter, he NEEDS to be punished, but in my experience this method just made my child so much worse. I am not saying you are doing this - I am just sharing my experience. I really hope things improve for you soon. You are not alone. Big hugs xxx

[diamondmoon]

Thanks for reply I agree with what u say about the discipline as if he getting all day at school then I do ease off at home. But trying to find positive some days is very hard. And everyday bad at school since he started year 3. I don't know how I can keep going much longer I feel like I an going to crack. And because he was fine in infants staff at a lose what's happened to him.