Asd DS excluded from school

[HoldenClawfield]

Semi-regular on a namechanger here. Could do with some advice. My 8yo was excluded from school on Tuesday pm after explosive meltdown, punched a child in the face. Fair enough, he clearly can't do that.

School is generally pretty supportive. I am currently appealing refusal to issue a statement (squeaked in under the old system) so the silver lining is that this will help with that.

We have a meeting tomorrow. I assume and hope he is going back on Monday. Also, although I understand why they excluded him I think three days is disproportionate. Are they on thin ice here? Any advice on how to approach the meeting?

[Kleinzeit]

First of all just sending sympathies. My DS had a lot of aggressive outbursts and he got one exclusion (also for aggression, for 3 days) when he was 12. And that was very upsetting for all of us.

As for how to handle it... not an expert here but I would probably accept the length of the exclusion, a punch in the face is pretty serious. Besides the school may feel they need time for everyone to calm down. And when my DS was excluded I realised how exhausted and stressed he had become, things had been building up and he needed the time at home to recover himself.

The school should have told you that you can formally appeal the exclusion. Not sure about the pros and cons of doing so. I decided against, however my DS was already being fully supported – I am not sure whether appealing the exclusion on the grounds that your DS had SN that weren’t being properly supported would strengthen your case for a statement. Maybe worth asking an advice line about that?

[Kleinzeit]

PS my emphasis for the meeting would be “how can we all work together to make sure DS gets the supports he needs so it doesn’t happen again” Also, is there anything DS needs to do to make the other child feel better (apology, whatever) and if so can you prime him to do it?

[senvet]

So basically, they are, I imagine doing everything that is in the NIL or other assessment documents, but your conclusion is that it is not working?

I would use meeting as a REALLY useful opportunity to gather evidence.

So I would prep a list of all the interventions in the assessment reports/NIL, and start with a nice list of all the things that they are doing with a note of who is doing them and how often. Lots of nicey nicey, thankyou thankyou.
That will give them a warm glow.

Then slip on into the ones that are not getting done and find out where they are with those.
With luck you will be able to come out with a list that they cannot afford and/or are waiting for OT, SALT etc to get back to them.

Then the big question will be - does he need more of anything?

ASD can co-exist with the type of behaviour that responds to behaviour programmes and exclusions, but the classic ASD meltdown is an overload, and no exclusion or star chart will help.

having someone to identify the triggers and to pre-empt overload is usually essential for the sake of dc and the class.
also a quiet room to calm down in.
And then a programme that helps dc to self regulate.

It depends if the triggers are sensory or communication-stress or both. But until the triggers are sorted, my guess would be that the correct answer probably won't be exclusion.

One last thought - if the dc the school are seeing now is really quite a bit different than the dc that the assessors saw when they did the assessment, that is a VERY useful bit of evidence to get into the minutes of this meeting.

Good Luck

[HoldenClawfield]

Thank you both of you. I feel like failures as a parent too as I can't get him out of the house today, but I think he is exhausted. Amazing advice about using the meeting as an opportunity to gather evidence. Thank you

[OneInEight]

In our experience exclusions simply increased the stress and challenging behaviour. Whilst he is off try and keep it calm. If he is happy to to do the work sent home then do it but do not pressurise. Take great care to insist that his return to school doe not start with a telling off - ds2 reoffended within 30 minutes on one notable occasion after this happened. Make sure they send a formal letter home so you can use this as evidence for your appeal. Above all you need to make clear to the school that the behaviour is anxiety driven and what he needs is support to reduce stress rather than increasing it with punishments.

[HoldenClawfield]

Just planning for this afternoon's meeting - would you expect school to minute the meeting? If I do it will my minutes carry any validity? Do I circulate them to get them approved?

[OneInEight]

Probably too late response but we have found sometimes yes and sometimes no. One school was very good and minuted everything whilst others not at all (we have been through a lot of schools between ds1 and ds2). I would definitely write down pertinent points and then circulate after the meeting to confirm what was said. I hope the meeting went well. It is horrible when the school moves to exclusions and the only consolation is that it is evidence to help get support.

We were advised very early on in the process by our GP to copy every letter to every agency involved and whilst he probably regrets his advice (given the number of letters than landed on his doorstep) it served us very well. I also think an old-fashioned posted letter has more impact and is less easily ignored than an email.

[senvet]

Sorry - late to reply, but if you were the only one taking the notes then at least an email afterwards saying - 'Thank you all so much for your time at the meeting today. Just to for the records here is a note of what was said/agreed. Please let me know if your recollection is different. Many thanks again'.
That kind of thing

The idea is to give them a chance to correct it, and if they don't, it then stands as the record of the meeting.

The same applies if they produce a minute that doesn't reflect your views - send a correction email and ask for it to be kept with all copies of the minutes.

Hope it went OK today

[Icimoi]

If I were you, I'd type up your minutes and get them in immediately even if there was someone else taking them. Schools have a tendency to have a minute taker who is something like a secretary who doesn't have much of a clue what is going on and who doesn't note the important points; and some have a tendency to produce highly selective minutes. So I think there's a distinct advantage in getting your version in first.

[HoldenClawfield]

Thanks so much for your responses. The meeting was okayish. The head was keen to show how they will prevent this happening again but seemed ambivalent about statement application even though I said again and again that if teh recomencations made in the reports from SA had been implemented this would not have happened. She did eventually say though that she would say at tribunal that they need more resources.

DH was note taking and we will circulate asap.

[Holdenclawfield]

Resurrecting this to get a bit of perspective on developments. After the meeting we did circulate minutes and asked in writing (email) that we be given written confirmation of his exclusion. Nothing came, it was half term, we wrote to la informing them of recent events and saying that we we're waiting formal notification of the exclusion.

I was called into heads office yesterday - she had amended the minutes and said that this was in the light of advice she had taken, and that it definitely wasn't an exclusion, as if it were it would have had to confirm with school policy. She said it was me that had used the word exclusion, can't remember exact words but she was upset and even more when I told her that informal exclusions were illegal and that anyway we had updated the la. She had definitely used the term informal exclusion at the time. It was not a pleasant meeting

I am a bit flummoxed by this. The governors had already got wind of it and are asking what the procedures are, but what would you make of it, and what if any thing should I do?

[OneInEight]

You are right that informal exclusions are illegal, however, I think many HT's are ignorant of this. Ours certainly was but luckily was soon put right by the LA's exclusion officer who in her defence she had called to a meeting to try and work out some solutions for the problems. If she will not apply for an EHCP plan then I would really advise you to do it yourself asap. Managing behaviour by exclusions for an ASD child simply does not work in our experience and by having to do so she is showing that her staff need extra resources to support your son.

[Holdenclawfield]

Actually, that really obvious point that she may not have known makes sense. I do think she acted in good faith, but is now having to cover her tracks

[Kleinzeit]

I don't know where she got her advice but it sounds flaky to me. Surely she can't turn round and say it isn't an exclusion just because she didn't follow the procedures. It doesn't matter whether she used the word or not. Perhaps she needs a copy of this:

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/269681/Exclusion_from_maintained_schools__academies_and_pupil_referral_units.pdf

which says:

13.‘Informal’ or ‘unofficial’ exclusions, such as sending pupils home ‘to cool off’, are unlawful, regardless of whether they occur with the agreement of parents or carers. Any exclusion of a pupil, even for short periods of time, must be formally recorded.

There's quite a bit about SEN in there too.

Could you contact IPSEA for advice on where to go from here? They have an advice phone line, and some info on their web site.

I understand her good intentions but she shouldn't cover her tracks in a way that puts your DS at a disadvantage. If you let her cover for this then in exchange she should be doing anything and everything to get your DS the help he needs! And any future exclusions should be properly handled.

[senvet]

I would look to keep this HT on side as someone who says in a minuted meeting that they will say, in Tribunal no less, that dc needs more help is to be treasured.

So I would say that you understand that she should have been trained properly in all these procedures, and you know how hard it must be to keep on top of all this stuff whilst running a school, ie lots of nicey nicey stuff

You are right and she is wrong, but if you show her respect and be a friend to someone in a tight corner she may yet come good for you in the fight for more support.

Hope this makes sense

[AgnesDiPesto]

What have they recorded his absence as if not an exclusion? They must have put something in register.

[Holdenclawfield]

Thanks for all your very good advice. We have a letter now so all sorted. I just hope the relationship with school settles down - and that we win our appeal for a statement, which was the point of getting it in writing