help..... Looks like the La are moving to dispute margos report - what do i do?

[bjkmummy]

just got a letter - on a Saturday obviously from the LA asking my permission for my daughter to be referred to the NHS salt and want me to support them in doing this.

we had a salt report done for the refusal appeal in may which was dire and the panel looked at it in great detail - we won the appeal and post tribunal the school did nothing so margo saw her and the report was damning and also dx her with asd.

so why are they are they now asking for a salt report given her report from margo is only about a month old and this is just an appeal against a NIL ...... do I need to think about calling margo - sorry im panicking

should I ask them why???

shes seeing daphne on next week and EP coming in nov - their LA EP did nothing when he wrote his report and just used the scores from one of my dyslexia action report.

[tempe48]

I don't think you can refuse to let their SALT see her, or else they will claim you have obstructed their witnesses and prevented them from making their case properly - unless its got to the point that your daughter has been over-assessed? Depends on how many assessments she has had in the last year. The NHS SALT won't be able to do the assessments Margo did a month ago - because most can't be repeated within 6 months.

I don't know what assessments Daphne Keen does, but I would ask the NHS SALT to liaise with her, so that the NHS Salt does not carry out assessments, Daphne is planning to do - and then Daphne won't be able to do them for 6 months. That might harm your route to diagnosis and your own case.

Its quite normal, when going to Tribunal - my independent ed psy always liaised with the LA ed psy on what tests they were going to do. There is usually more than one set of tests to do - like WISC and BAS for IQ. Leaving room for both of them to work and do a report.

Important thing at the tribunal is for you to look reasonable and are trying to work with the LA - regardless of what games they play! My barrister used to tell us "Give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves anyway!"

[bjkmummy]

well she has had a salt assessment in march and then one by margo in july - she is having an assessment by daphne keen next week and then the EP in November. margo sharps report is so detailed and indepth that no way will a NHS salt report be as detailed although I guess as its for tribunal they are going to probably be more detailed - theres also the timing of it all and lets be honest the hassle for me - I have 3 children with asd, fighting a 3rd tribunal in 2 years , a dh who has had quite a bad accident and is off work for a month - I really could do without all of the stress and the appointment will be in a city that I will struggle to get to plus all the childcare arrangements I have to think about as well so if they do want the report the salt will have to come us or even just to our town

[Veritata]

Yes, tell them the salt will have to come to you or they must pay for taxis.

[tempe48]

ITA with Veritata, and I forgot to say that you should ask to be present at the NHS SALT's assessment anyway if possible - make it clear you just want to observe quietly. You have no intention of interfering.

I was always present at my all DD's independent speech therapy and OT assessments, because they said it would make the report more meaningful to me - and it did.

They might your DD leading questions and then coax her responses, and it is important for you to see those. For instance, the LA ed psy asked her, using a Likert scale what she thought of her present school. DD pointed to "I don't like it." The ed psy said "Surely, its OK?" So, DD always eager to please, said "Ok, its OK!" Guess what the ed psy put in her report? Not that DD's initial response had been that she did not like her present school!

[MeirAiaNeoAlibi]

I'd email to say she's had 2x SLT very recently, and is about to see the paediatrician who will have a look at the 2 reports. So you'll get back to them shortly when you've had a chance discuss possible further assessments with her dr.

Gives you a bit of time to decide.

[MeirAiaNeoAlibi]

You could ask the reason for the new referral, given the NHS decided (I presume) there was nothing much wrong and no need to see her again

[bjkmummy]

She has never seen An nhs salt. The la had our first report for the refusal to assess appeal which we won. They were ordered to fully assess her, they did next to nothing and didn't refer her during the stat assessment period and then issued a nil. We then gave them margos report, I think that now our appeal for the NIL has landed on their desk and the fact they have failed to fully assess her and our report provides new diagnosis for her the LA are trying to backtrack and cover their arses - maybe they should have thought of this during the statutory assessment stage as they had the first report and the judge in the hearing and in the judgement put a lot of weight on it. I honestly don't see what a 3rd salt report can add and feel its purely to undermine us. I will respond back next week and ask them why they want a third report and then she will see daphne next week and I can see what the LA come back with

[MeirAiaNeoAlibi]

No harm in dragging your feet a bit. It may well turn out that the NHS has no appointment available for a while anyway...

[MeirAiaNeoAlibi]

When you won the refusal to assess, did Tribunal specifically order them to get a SLT opinion? Cos if they didn't, get some advice about whether you need to permit last-minute, probably-hoping-to-undermine-you SLT opinion.

You do need to look co-operative, but you don't need to collude in them covering up any failure to do what a Judge said...

[MeirAiaNeoAlibi]

You can probably find your local NHS referral guidelines online. Example 1

[bjkmummy]

the judgement stated they had to look at all of her inter related needs but the panel stopped short of actually stating they should get her seen by a salt but the contents of the salt report was mentioned lots in the actual judgement.


my EP has responded and said I have to co operate and not to worry as the report is going to show nothing new and we have nothing to hide. she says she sees it all of the time - standard tactic of LAs - she has given me some advice so I now need to go back to margo and see if she is happy to comment on the report that the LA produce. I feel much more calmer now and can see the bigger picture - at the end of the day shes had 2 salt reports done and they both back each other up done by different salt so if a 3rd report suddenly deviates then it will raise questions I guess plus every single report are all saying the same.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Like Meir kind of suggested I would write back and say that you have no objection in principle, but please could they explain what the purpose of the referral is and what outcome there will be for your child before you give your consent.

That to-ing and fro-ing will buy you time and they aren't unreasonable questions.

[2boysnamedR]

Make sure you can still get your salt in with the repeating of tests in six month window. I'm not suggesting you do, but if the nhs repeat mangos test - it becomes worthless ( as they have repeated it in six months). Ask to have the raw score sheet copied to you and sit in. My nhs tested ds on a pre school part clef so they could test him to pass it. Said he was six months delayed. He was in fact three years delayed. They keep bringing that up but private salt shows them wrong. They called in other people to test him did indeed give enough rope to hang themselves, as third lea commissioned test said he was now four years delayed! Hahaha!!!!

[wasuup2014]

Is there case law on over testing?

[KOKOagainandagain]

Par for the course. LA didn't get SALT report for SA. What's new? In DS1s case he had been discharged by NHS years previous and the LA didn't attempt to get a report until they had to. The solicitors had to request my consent. By this time they couldn't get an NHS appt for a new patient and had to go private. I delayed, requested info about the assessment planned, stressed the over-testing and said I would consent to assessment at home. They initially wanted me to travel so they could video the assessment on site but I refused because I had other care responsibilities and couldn't do it in the school day.

The LA had to get another more local Indi salt. The good thing is that the LA salt totally backed up what Margo said (and more) and turned out to be the final nail in the coffin for the LA. She also specified and quantified. Also because Margo is authorised to diagnose the LA will try to find the equivalent or at least someone more specialist than the average NHS salt.

Um and ah, then consent with conditions - local PCT or at home. This assessment is inevitable but you can control the detail.

[KOKOagainandagain]

Par for the course. LA didn't get SALT report for SA. What's new? In DS1s case he had been discharged by NHS years previous and the LA didn't attempt to get a report until they had to. The solicitors had to request my consent. By this time they couldn't get an NHS appt for a new patient and had to go private. I delayed, requested info about the assessment planned, stressed the over-testing and said I would consent to assessment at home. They initially wanted me to travel so they could video the assessment on site but I refused because I had other care responsibilities and couldn't do it in the school day.

The LA had to get another more local Indi salt. The good thing is that the LA salt totally backed up what Margo said (and more) and turned out to be the final nail in the coffin for the LA. She also specified and quantified. Also because Margo is authorised to diagnose the LA will try to find the equivalent or at least someone more specialist than the average NHS salt.

Um and ah, then consent with conditions - local PCT or at home. This assessment is inevitable but you can control the detail.

[bjkmummy]

I've emailed margo and ask if she will read any report and respond in writing and communicate with the NHs salt if necessary she said she is happy to do that and has also put the tribunal hearing date in her diary! So I guess that's reassuring that she could come if needed although I didn't ask her to but good to know she could.

[KOKOagainandagain]

Don't worry - her hubby will phone you nearer the date

[bjkmummy]

Well 2 weeks have now passed since I responded back to the lA and used stars wording so asked them what positive outcome there would be for my daughter by having a 3 rd assessment in the space of 6 months and also asked if they were now agreeing that they hadn't fully assessed her after all during the stat assessment.

Since then - silence. Not a peep, no response whatsoever so god knows what they are up to. Two weeks to they have to respond to tribunal and they have to get her views still. They are going to leave this to last possible moment aren't they?