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anyone have any experience of LA requesting late evidence on day of hearing?

(14 Posts)
billiejeanbob Sat 23-Aug-14 19:34:53

I am expecting the LA to try and submit a salt report (salt is not a witness) on the day of the hearing.
does anyone know if this is likely to be accepted?
LA recieved the report on the 5th August, hearing is 5th Sept.
Also if the tribunal don't allow the written report as evidence can the LA rep read it verbally?
thanks

MeirAiaNeoAlibi Sun 24-Aug-14 08:59:37

Get ready to object- on basis that they've sat on it for a month.
Bring proof of the 5 august thing. They'll say they only just got the report, and you need to be prepared for the date on it to read 4 sept. Their other option is to say it was sent to them, but the la person responsible was on holiday to 3 sept and no one else could have dealt with it.

NHS shouldn't be giving LA sight of any reports before you've seen them.

Makes me wonder if the SLT sent the LA a draft on 5th August, and have since 'updated it'- 'to take account of multidisciplinary team comments' hmm

billiejeanbob Sun 24-Aug-14 09:41:05

thanks meir.
I have no doubt that this report has been written at the request of the LA - to support their case.

the slt originally saw my dd a few months ago and her assessment report supported our case. she also gave a dx of verbal dyspraxia.

however this new report that has been sent to the LA completely contradicts her previous report and states that dd does not need direct slt afterall. This is despite the slt not seeing dd since her previous assessment and report!

MeirAiaNeoAlibi Sun 24-Aug-14 09:53:50

If you've seen the new report already, it's a bit less likely that declining to admit it would succeed. Worth a try though.

Suggest you contact the SLT yourself and ask why she's altered her recommendation. It might be (for example) school have told her they already have staff extensively trained in the programme she wanted to use. Or that her boss has over-ruled her, and told her she's (say) too junior to commit the NHS to an expensive block of direct therapy.

Take notes of the conversation and if the new SLT report gets through, ask to submit them as your own late evidence. Will be useful as context. Even especially if the answers you get are just "um, Er, I dunno, policy'

billiejeanbob Sun 24-Aug-14 10:25:37

its rather complicated. I have contacted the slt and not only has she changed the provision recomended she has also changed her diagnosis from verbal dyspraxia to global delay (to agree with LA)This is despite not seeing my dd since she gave the original diagnosis.
the hearing on the 5th sept is a continuation hearing as the previous hearing was adjourned to allow the LA time to respond to our indie reports, as the evidence deadline was only 9 working days prior to the previous hearing as it had been brought forward at the request of the LA.
considering this would it be reasonable to object to the late evidence submission due to my indie experts not having time to consider this evidence?

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Sun 24-Aug-14 12:01:02

Do you have representation? Is Indi salt a witness? ime panel allow submissions on the day of the hearing as in the best interests of the child. If you are not represented or have your own expert witness they may be more understanding of your objection but are likely to maybe just adjourn for an hour as further delay would not be in best interests.

I would prepare a defence with the strong assumption that the report will be allowed.

billiejeanbob Sun 24-Aug-14 13:32:07

yes I am represented by MG - defence is already prepared as to include this report. I am not too concerned if the panel do allow it as it states that dd is globally delayed which the judge has already ordered to be removed from the working doc and replaced with dyslexia.
the salt also completely contradicts herself within the report as she states that dd should not be given direct slt as this will add to her anxiety as it will be taking her out of the class room. yet she later states 'in addition to 1:1 and small group work out of the classroom dd will also need ...' so therefore she is stating that dd will need some provision out of the clasa room!

Icimoi Sun 24-Aug-14 14:38:38

If you know the report exists, can't you ask the SALT to send a copy to you direct? You're entitled to it as it relates to your child. Alternatively, you could apply to the tribunal for an order requiring the LA to serve it immediately or be debarred from using it at all.

billiejeanbob Sun 24-Aug-14 14:48:57

I have a copy of the report that the LA sent to me and asked me to submit it! MG replied that we would not be submitting it as late evidence as we were not relying on this report to support our case.
If I apply to the tribunal now asking them to order the LA to submit it I run the risk of the LA not intending to submit it at all and I have therefore benefitted their case.
Bloody LA just wish they wouldn't play these dirty games....

cansu Tue 26-Aug-14 07:40:35

I wouldn't send it and I would not be too worried if they did as it sounds a load of made up nonsense, especially as the slt has changed her own diagnosis and recommendation without any further assessment of your dd. it sounds utterly ridiculous.

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Tue 26-Aug-14 09:13:55

Are the LA trying to argue that she would not benefit from interventions/placement for dc with dyslexia/verbal dyspraxia because she really has global delay? At ds1 hearing which involved dyslexia amongst other things, a lot of emphasis was placed upon his being at least average intelligence but under-attaining because of unmet need. What did the EP say? Did they carry out cognitive assessment? Has any other expert suggested global delay?

Being seen to act in a way that is consistent with a parent who is completely ignorant of the dirty tricks of the LA and just has the best interests of their child at heart and can trust the experts is difficult to say the least. For example, such a parent might feel an ethical need to inform tribunal of this important new piece of evidence that changes everything because the school/LA really can't do anymore and have been right all along. Despite the LA suggesting that the parent submit this evidence, shock, horror, they didn't do so - thereby proving that they are just pushy parents with sharp elbows and deep pockets who expect the unreasonable angry

This is mindfuck I suspect they are just trying to 'put the frightners' on you. Its just one piece of evidence and not very good and does not change everything. If the LA requested the report and received the 'original' it would be their job to file the report and any copy to you would be fulfilling their requirement to file a copy with the court and provide a copy to the other side.

billiejeanbob Tue 26-Aug-14 10:00:06

yes keep you are spot on. it is rather a complicated story so I will start from the beginning.
dd saw a paed 2 yrs ago who dx global learning difficulties, despite no EP assessment. this dx was based on dds nc levels which were below expectations accross the board.

LA then issue statement which states her needs (motor coordination delays, expressive language etc) are in line with her global delay. This was not documented within any SLT or OT reports - her SLT profile was spikey from 54th-0.4th centile, OT the same although a lot of her percentiles were low dd was able to obtain some average scores despite her difficulties. OT dx motor coordination disorder although this is not included in statement.
LA EP assessment includes no standardised assessment and is v vague.
I then appeal statement to SENDIST as it is not specific, nor does part 2 accurately reflect dd's needs.
Indie EP, SLT and OT assess and conclude that dd does not have global learning difficulties/ global delay. EP assessment shows average IQ and general intelligence but severe dyslexia. Only 1% of dds peers with same IQ would achieve a score so low on phonological awareness etc.
OT assessment dx motor coordination disorder, sensory processing, retained reflexes, visual perceptual difficulties, sensory seeking behaviour and modulation difficulties.
SLT dx expressive lang impairment.
dd NC levels now reading P8, writing 1C, maths 2A.
pead then changes her dx to specific learning difficulties, sensory seeking behaviour, motor coordination disorder.
tribunal order LA to remove global delay and replace with dyslexia and motor coordination disorder.
LA agree to dyslexia provision recomended by indie EP and indoe SLT needs but not OT.
tribunal adjourn.
LA then submit evidence from dds paed stating dds dx is global delay as she has a lot of difficulties! (paed not seen dd since dyslexia dx)
NHS OT who hasnt seen dd since oct 2013 writes report slating indie recomendations and not aggreeing with indie dx of motod coordination disorder (despite previous nhs OT and paed dx the same!) LA submit this.
Now the updated SLT report.
so now LA have agreed to indie EP recomendations and dx of dyslexia they have still submitted evidence stating that dd has global delay! (tribunal have already ordered them to remove this!)
next hearing 5th sept.

Ineedmorepatience Tue 26-Aug-14 12:15:29

We had that experience! I suspected the LA were going to submit a later LA EP report so I wrote my own parental response to it, it had arrived the week before the tribunal. They actually didnt in the end they submitted a new OT report but with half if it missing which was very unhelpful. I actually submitted the LAEP report on the day (after they submitted the OT report) because it had some stuff that was in our favour.

It is an utterly ridiculous situation and made so much more difficult by deceit and lies.

Good luck smile

billiejeanbob Tue 26-Aug-14 12:33:33

oh yes forgot to mention that LA EP reassessed after indie EP using the BAS3, whereas indie EP used WISC.

The LA EP did not comment either way Re global delay or dyslexia but stated that dd had difficulties with literacy and this is where further intervention should be focused but failed to specify any provision!
During the first hearing my representative asked the LA EP if dd's results indicated a global delay and she didnt know how to reply and stammered 'um um no I dont think so'!
It is just so deceitful to label my dd with something she does not have. she tries so hard and really wants to learn and is becoming so frustrated at not being able to read. she is also becoming more aware now at the extent she is behind her peers and this is affecting her confidence.
she is refusing to go to school as she says herself she wants more help and she is also anxious and self harming.
Yet the LA claim the above is due to dd noticing she is different as she is being withdrawn from class for therapies! yet she isnt receiving any therapies now and hasnt been for the last year!

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