So upset for ds3, breaks my heart he is this way.

[QueenEagle]

Selective mutism has been talked about for some time now by his playgroup and SALTherapist. I agree as he chats away at home, although lots of his speech is unintelligible (sp?).

Worst part of all this has been since returning to playgroup last week. First day he walked through the door holding my hand but bent over completely double so as to avoid making eye contact with and saying hello to the playgroup teachers. Same on the way out. During the session (he gets lots of one-to-one support) they have started to refuse him toys unless he asks. He has been overheard talking freely with other kids so they have decided it is attention seeking to an extent and are refusing to allow him to get away with choosing who (not) to speak to.

Awful afternoon today, I visited my dad, ds refused to acknowledge him so we refused to let him play with any toys until he did. Cue massive tantrum which went on for about an hour, me returning him to the bottom step til he stops crying and comes to say hello to grandad and ask to play with toys.

I really feel for him as he is desperately shy but I know he cannot carry on refusing to speak with people. It broke my heart to not let him play and have him get so upset.

[QueenEagle]

Oh hell, I just read this back and it's made me sob.

[QueenEagle]

Should I have put this in behaviour?

[misdee]

oh please dont make him speak, this has upset me so so much.

i didnt speak for years at school or outside the home, it was a great big ball of anxiety mainly to do with talking to adults. i would talk to my friends if no adults were about. but dreaded talking to adults. it was horrible. i was forced to talk, and it upset me so so much.

its very hard to explain.

i think your ds needs some confidence building more than being forced to talk. more gentle encourgment, as i heard at dd2 nursery (also doesnt talk much at nursery atm) they encourgae the children to use 'your words' when asking for things rather than relying on a point or a nod.

i'm sorry if i have amde you sob even more after reading this. i know you worry.

[QueenEagle]

It upsets me so much that I have been so protective so far of anyone who dares force him to speak or inundate him with questions therfore making him feel so self conscious.

SALT say to not force it and to be really laid back - I have done this. Playgroup are now saying they feel he should talk because they know he can.

I feel bloody stuck in the middle, wanting him to be more confident but wanting to protect him at the same time. Makes it worse that ds4 is so outgoing and gregarious too.

[misdee]

i disagree with the nursery. how long has he been like this? if he has a genuine fear of talk, whther it just be nerves or selective mutism, forcing it wont help IMO.

i was always like this, still am, and i now force myself to speak, sometimes i can be so OTT now just to get myself heard, and still like puking when talking to new people

[QueenEagle]

misdee he has always been this way. He's 4 just after xmas. Has got much much worse since going back to playgroup though. That's where his main anxiety seems to be so of course I worry how he will cope when he goes to school next April - long way off yet I know but still.

He won't talk to any extended family or visitors to the house.

He finally did ask to play with the cars at my dad's but half way through his sentence he clamped his hand over his mouth and put his head down to the floor.

[misdee]

poor ds3

he sounds really scared of speaking to adults outside the home.

i've gotta go for a bit, did u see the house of tiny tearaways with the boy with selective mutism? they had some good ideas on there. i'll be back later on

[QueenEagle]

yes i did see the prog - very interesting. But hard to implement anything like that in the home especially with 4 other kids.

Thanks for replying misdee

[Jimjams2]

Why not introduce an alternative/augmentative communication system for him top use so you take the pressure right off speech- somethihg like PECS would be ideal- and is an excellent system for cueing speech as well.

[QueenEagle]

I think this may not work for ds3 as he is so shy. I can't stress enough how self-conscious he gets; I don't know what to do anymore.

[Jimjams2]

that's the beauty of pecs though doens't need to make eye contac event, all he needs to do is find someone's hand to shove a sentence strip into. It completely takes the pressure off communicating (gets rid of the "performance anxiety" - which can be a major part of the problem for some children on the spectrum as well). it doesn't put any pressure on the child using speech at all. I'd be aiming to build back up to speech in your son's case obviously, but it would give him time out from having to speak, but would allow him to see how useful it can be to communicate.

[Jimjams2]

The main problem with it is that he would be forced to be using a system that is below the expressive vocab he is capable of- but once he's used to communicating he may find that frustrating enough to make him speak iyswim. IN your shoes I'd be seeking out the experts in the condition obviously, but I'd try pecs until something better came along - and just see how it went- if it didn't work I'd stop it. I've linked to lots of free symbol sites today in the thread about FandZ's new parenting tip.

[tobysmumkent]

Message withdrawn

[Olihan]

QueenEagle, I recently read a thread on here from Tiptoes who's son also has selective mutism. She may be able to give you some tips on the best way to make it easier for him.

From the very little I know, the nursery are wrong in approaching it as a behavioural issue as it isn't, it's an emotional issue and anxiety is likely to make it worse. Can you ask your SALT for some information about SM to give to the nursery so they have some idea about how to deal with it without making it worse for him? Looking at it as attention seeking behaviour is terrible for him when the last thing he probably wants is more attention. It's quite common for children with SM to talk to their peers but not to other adults, even ones they know well like your dad, as there is no expectation or pressure from other children.

I understand how incredibly frustrating it must be for you when he won't talk to people but can you look at it as he 'can't' rather than 'won't' for the time being? You say he's desperately shy but it must be more than that if SALT are talking about SM. It might be easier for you to cope with if you can approach it as a difficulty talking, instead of a refusal to talk.

Will try to link to Tiptoes thread for you.

[Jimjams2]

makaton would be good as well- I;d try both and see which your son prefers. Lots of fun resources available to teach it. The only thing with singing is it requires more eye contact and more interaction- b ut is definitely more free flowing than pecs.

[snowleopard]

Sorry to hear of this QE - I agree with Misdee. SALT know better than the playgroup what will help him most. If an adult has a phobia or stammer etc. they don't just get labelled "attention-seeking" and forced into what they don't want to do - and nor should a child. I had a friend who was mute as a child - she said one day (when she was 7) she just decided it was over and time to talk. DS will probably do the same and come around when he is ready. I wouldn't feel bad about siding with him and letting him know you understand and support him - because it sounds as though in your heart, you do.

[Olihan]

It's here . It's a lot about the school but there are quite a few posts where she talks about how different her ds is at school with his friends and how he can't cope with adults/changes. She also talks about some of the SALT' recommendations. There's a positive outcome to it as well, so don't feel too downheartened by the start of it!

[Jimjams2]

SALT and/or ed psych should go ito nursery really and leave them with strategies to help. Tey should be taking pressur eof speech, not saying "he can do it so he should" depends on the definition of "can "!

[misdee]

i am so glad others have come into this thread QE.

i hope that SALT can help.

dd2 has a speech delay, and will go mute for weeks in strange situations. nothing on the scale of your ds, but she didnt tak at preschool for 6 weeks. her SALt is good, i just wish dd2 sessions will start sooner. the good thing with her new nursery is that they have a SALT and ed physh coming in regularly as they have an enrichment programme, so if there are any other concerns with dd2 they will all meet up.

please please do bring it up with the nursery that this is not attention seeking, the last thing he will want is attention. i remeber 'sarah you must talk, come on now, i know you can say it' and its like a big lump of fear in your throat, you want to please people by talking but you cant. its a real fear and not attention seeking at all.

like snowleapords friend, one day it went, it was in the 1st or 2nd year of secondry then i found my voice. i would whisper words before that, and not talk to adults if i could help it. i was the funny child who wouldnt speak to people, i actually used to burst into tears if people tried to make talk

[tiptoes]

QueenEagle-Have just seen this thread.

I am still learning myself about selective mutism and am by no means an expert.I can tell you from my own experience as far as my ds is concerned is that forcing the child to speak is not the way to go.It'a all about pressure and misdee's post really struck a chord with me.
My ds has a speech delay also and hates being the centre of attention,so for the playgroup to suggest he is attention seeking in my opinion is wrong.
My ds greets his teachers at school with a wave and they have certain sign language for different things like toilet etc so to relieve the pressure for him to talk.

My ds strated the esliding in technique with me present and did strat to talk.Just because the playgroup heard him talk to other children does'nt mean he will feel comfortable transferring that speech to everyone.

My ds does not talk around family members ethier and will occasionally utter a few words,but I have stresed to them not to push him to talk.

My ds gets terribly frustrated and tearful and has massive tantrums over the smallest of things .Apparently it is quite common with children who have SM to behave this way.my ds spends 6 hours at school everyday without talking so when he gets home I suspect all the frustration of the day has built up and he lets it all out.
There are quite a few websites on SM ,some of the ones from Canada and the US are very good and I have been told they they are way ahead of the UK when it comes to SM.I just did a search on google.


As for your playgroup ,could your SALT have a word with them and explain SM as they sound as they sound as though they have no idea.

If there is anything else you would like to ask me feel free.As I said earlier I am by no means an expert but will be happy to share my personal experineces.

[saggarmakersbottomknocker]

Aaww QE poor ds3. I agree with the others about SALT getting in touch with nursery. They know best.

FWIW I was very shy as a child and spoke very little in nursery school. I remember being at nursery but don't remember choosing not to speak to adults. I just didn't speak much at all. I have one over-riding memory of having to sit at the dinner table pretty much all afternoon because I wouldn't say 'please may I leave the table' I so wanted to say it but just couldn't - I know they thought I was just stubborn but I just couldn't form the words . I still have an odd dislike of the sound of my voice especially in the company of people I don't know well.

Finding other ways of communicating without him actually speaking will hopefully take the pressure off, give him confidence and help him find his voice when he's ready.

[misdee]

i was labelled as 'very shy', i guess because i spoke at home it wasnt a problem.

but please do get onto SALt about the heavey handed approach the nursery are taking with this.

[tiptoes]

Just found this,you might find it helpful.

www.selectivemutismcenter.org/faq.htm

[QueenEagle]

"He finally did ask to play with the cars at my dad's but half way through his sentence he clamped his hand over his mouth and put his head down to the floor. "

I have repeated this from one of my earlier posts as I have been chatting with dh and talking over how best to deal with this. I feel this action tells an awful lot about how ds3 feels about his voice. Would you agree?

My ds2 had a significant speech delay/disorder too but none of the shyness which affects ds3 - with both of them we have used makaton with great results. He has dropped the use of it now as his communication is so good at home. I like the idea of the picture cards a lot - I will suggest this to playgroup.

btw it was playgroup who felt he needed to see the SALT before November - his appointment has been brought forward to next week. However when I spoke with her on the phone she seemed reluctant to be starting any work with him anytime soon due to his unwillingness to co-operate with her as she is a stranger to him. She felt the pressure would be too much for him so was leaving it til he was nearer 4. I have a good relationship with her (she was SALT for ds2 7 years ago for 2 years) so I think our meeting will be positive.

I have much praise for the playgroup staff - they really are very, very good in every other way with ds3. I think they are struggling now as to how best to proceed with him. He's been there a year now. He has only 2 terms left before he goes to school part-time and I am worried stiff about how he will cope there with a change of environemnt, teachers etc. SALT are telling me that he is unlikely to get a statement as they are now so difficult to get. ds2 had one so not a problem when he went to school, but things have all changed now.

I appreciate so many people replying, there is a lot of useful info here, thank you.

[CristinaTheAstonishing]

Your poor ds3, so shy... It sounds like you have such good relationships with both your SALT and the nursery (even if the nursery sound misguided on this point). That's a lot, don't underestimate it. I haven't got any suggestions, I too think the PECS idea is a good one or going back to makaton. This and giving him more space and time. I hope it works out.