one with autism should i have another

[bubble78]

hi there im new to this but can any one help me i have a son who is 3 with asd i am desperate for another child but has any one else out there had one with and then one with out asd . i love my son to bits but not sure to bring another into the world to face same problems as him but i really want another hope some can tell me there story

[Olihan]

We foster a 9 year old with autism (for respite)and his mum had another baby last year, after going through exactly the same dilemma as you. The baby ( a girl) is absolutely fine, no indications of any kind of asd, so it can be fine.

[bubble78]

thankyou

[Loobie]

i have ds1 who is severely autistic,he is almost 11,then i have ds2 who is 8 and is absolutely fine! Then i had dd,she is 4 in november and has a speech disorder with autitistic traits.
We have a large family history of ASD on ex-dp side.

[bubble78]

thankyou very much that is reasuring there is no family history on either of our sides so hope fully a second child would be worth the risk thanks agian for replying

[Jimjams2]

Have ds1 (severely autistic), ds2 and ds3 both seem fine (although ds3 tested positive for IAG at UNi Sunderland). We think we know the types of things that may have triggered ds1's autism, so we've avoided potential triggers as much as possible with the other 2. Ds2 is 4 and fine, ds3 is 19 months and we think (now-finally) fine.

[bubble78]

jimjams2 you say you think you know what riggered ds 1s autism can you tell me what that was so i can avoid it too

[Jimjams2]

Well I think it will differ from family to family! In our case we have a lot of autoimmune conditions in the family. We suspect therefore that we have a bit of a genetic predisposition to developing those sorts of things. IN ds1's case we think that contributing factors could have been mercury (incl in baby jabs), jab themeselves, antibiotics (messes up the gut), and herpes virus.

Consequently ds2 and ds3 have had no jabs, very limited tuna, I refused all dental work when pregnant/bfeeding, only have antibiotics when absolutely necessary (once in ds2's case, never in ds3's), limited use of calpol etc- will give for very high temp or pain, in ds2's case no gluten before age 3, in ds3's case after testing at Sunderland strictly no gluten, and in the main goats rather than cows milk. We saw a huge difference in ds3 after switching to goats milk, which I think means he might have a salicylate problem (esp as ds1 has peanut problems which are high in salicylates), which I think (but have to get round to checking) means that their sulphation system may be buggered. One day will sit down and work out possibilities.

Like I said though, many routes to autism, so other cases may be different.

[ecomum]

Hello

I am going through exactly the same dilemma at the moment. My DS is two, and I found out he is allergic to milk and salicylates in his first year. Now we are pretty sure he has an ASD but are waiting for an assessment. I would really love another one but am very scared.

Jim Jams I didnt think that peanuts and cows milk were high in salicylates, how do you know this? I think you're right in that there is a problem with the sulphation system.

I contacted Dr. Rosemary Waring who discovered that most people with ASDs have low sulphate levels. She said to put DS in epsom salt baths (magnesium sulphate)2-3 times a week for a month, then leave it for a month and see if you notice a difference. The theory is that the sulphate (and magnesium) will be absorbed directly into the blood stream through the skin, bypassing the problem of getting it through the gut.

(Sorry to bore you all with the science but . . .) the link between low sulphate levels and salicylates is a deficiency in the phenol-sulphur-transferase enzyme. This means that there is also a problem processing phenolic compounds - such as salicylates. These then become toxins and cause a range of problems such as autistic behaviour,mood problems and skin problems. It is also thought that salicylates further suppress the activity of any PST enzyme present, making matters worse!

If I do take the plunge and have another I am going to do the following things during pregnancy:
AVOID aspirin,paracetamol,ibuprofen and any high salicylate foods eg dried fruit and tinned tomatoes, artificial food additives etc.
AVOID like the plague any environmental salicylates such as solvents.
AVOID car fumes as much as possible and any sources of heavy metals such as fish.
BUT
Take fish oil supplements (I am currently looking at oils high in EPA but with no DHA which have less toxins from pollution in).
ONLY eat organic food.
Do a thorough check on suitable vitamin/mineral supplements. I took a standard one for pregnant mums last time, but am now not sure if this was right for me.
Plus find out if epsom salt baths could help when you are pregnant.
NB My dietician said it would not be wise to have dairy free diet during pregnancy, and that there was no evidence that this would reduce the chances of having another with a milk allergy.

Does anyone else have any other ideas?

Thanks

[Jimjams2]

I was sent a list from Donna Williams- which listed peanuts with skins on as being high in salicylates. Will check tomorrow- too tired now. I've had a quick look and can't see cows milk listed, although goats and sheeps specifically are listed as being low. I need to get up to speed on this and read through it all again, I've never paid much attention before (ds1's diet was so limited for so long).


I've kind of gone backwards with the salycilate stuff. Cut out food because I was finding a problem then realised the link.

I'm trying to remember where to get the espom salt cream from - you haven't come across it have you.

[Jimjams2]

Is your dietician an autism specialist? I think that's essential really. I'd highly recommend nutrilink . Michael Ash knows his stuff.

[ecomum]

Wow. Had a quick look - very comprehensive!
Unfortunately there are no practitioners where I am in yorkshire - but may be worth travelling.

Jimjams have you been to see Michael Ash? and if you don't mind is it very expensive?

[Frieda]

Sorry to but in Jimjams ? I don't have a SN child, but my nephew has been diagnosed as having ASD and we have quite a few auto-immune conditions in the family, so I'm generally interested. I just thought it was interesting that one of the few foods my nephew will eat ? and in vast quantities - is peanuts. Do you think it's possible this may be aggravating his disorder, and could there be a link between it and his apparant craving for peanuts?

Also, what's IAG?

[rustybear]

I work in a junior school with an asd resource and of the 27 families we've had over the last ten years or so, most have more than one child and only one has a younger sibling who may be affected, but is not yet diagnosed. One child is a twin & his sister is not affected at all.It is far more common in boys - or at least far more commonly diagnosed - only two of the 27 have been girls.

[rustybear]

Epsom salt cream - is this any good?

[Jimjams2]

Thank you rustybear- yes that is useful(ds1 drinks the bathwater so we can't put salts in the bath)

Peanuts sent ds1 in a headbanging lunatic frenzy. I think he can tolerate small amounts, but every day was a disaster for him. On them he was headbangin at least 20 times a day and had bruises all across his head. Stopped within 2 days of cutting out peanuts. I hadn't heard of peanuts causing a problem before so it took me a while to try- it was one of the few sources of protein he was having at the time. Donna Williams list says peanuts with their skins on are high in salicylates- ds1 waqs having organic whole ground peanuts (organic peanut butter) so it may have been that something more processed like skippy might have been ok.

I used Mike Ash for quit a while- he works by telephone (yes is expensive, but I like his approach- and he makes small cheap changes to begin with and builds up). I stopped because it just became impossible to get any supplements into ds1- so it was pointless.

[Jimjams2]

oh for IAG- search for autism research unit sunderland- all the info is there.

[Frieda]

Thanks, Jimjams - that's interesting.

[Davros]

Bubble, I assume that your DS with ASD is your only child? I was in that situation for some years and found it very, very difficult. Even friends who also had children with ASD but also had other children didn't understand and often upset me The reality is that, already having a child with ASD, you DO have a higher risk of having another and there is NO way to test so it is a big leap of faith.
My DS's ASD didn't have any of the triggers mentioned here by Jimjams and others (although I have no doubt that their children did), he was clearly autistic from birth and there are at least 2 other people in my family on the Autistic Spectrum. But DH and I still went on to have DD (eventually!) and she is fine although we seriously worried for her first 2 years. There are no guarantees but if it works out OK its great. We were prepared to take the risk of another child with ASD but so desperately wanted to have one without ASD......
Sorry, not sure this helps much.

[maddiemostmerry]

Maybe you could wait until your ds is a little bit older and see how you feel. Three can be quite a hard age with asd and as a parent you are still quite new to it yourself.
I had two older NT children and then went on to have a third child who was diagnosed with autism. We had a surprise fourth pregnancy when our autistic son was 2, I will be honest I was terrified and didn't think I would cope regardless of whether the new babu had any sn.
Five years down the line, my youngest does have sn(language disorder/asd) and I have just gone through statementing etc for the second time.
Somehow though it has been easier this time, nothing is so unexpected and bewidering as the first time around.

I do hope that I am not worrying you more with this, I just wanted you to know that whatever happens you will find a way to manage.
We do have a lot of people in my family with asd/learning problems,allergies, so I think we had a pretty high chance of more than one sn child.

[bubble78]

thankyou for all your replys on this and yes he our only child we have had genes tests done on his blood but all was normal on that they have said its a 10 % risk having another with asd. he has been going to a speech and language class every week for last 9 months and still has no diognotice as they say there are not enough traits to be autistic even though he has a few of them. we have no family history of any sn till my son and our family is quite large i have 13 cousins nearly all have kids so its just weather we brave enough to take the risk.. we know the risks are lower if we have a girl so we been looking up all these things you can do to sway the chances that way ( whether they work is another thing i will let you know in 10 months hopefully)
if anyone knows of any things or old wives tales to sway it towards a girl let me know..
but to be honest as long as its healthy i dont mind boy or girl..
thanks again you have all helped

[springgreens]

bubble78 I think about this alot too and know families with more than 1 child with ASD. Meeting the needs of one seems challenging enough, but two or more? is pretty frightening. And yet the families that I know cope really well and their kids are amazing. Also I do love the thought of my ds having siblings and - although those who know may disagree - feel that there are potentially huge benefits for both the NT/ASD and ASD child. I know it's different in ASD, but my brother and sisters were my world when I was a littlun and I want that lovely sort of companionship for ds growing up.

Wishing you all the best with whatever you decide.