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Who should make SA application me or sch?

(28 Posts)
Skylar123 Thu 30-Jan-14 15:52:33

School have offered to make application for sA once I told them I would be doing it. I told them I will do it myself but should I let them do it would it look better coming from school? What is the difference. Thx

osospecial Thu 30-Jan-14 16:08:23

I would do it yourself, you know it's definitely been done and when things have been sent in etc. it's great they are on board and agree it needs to be done as they will be submitting their part anyway but I would definitely start it yourself.

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Thu 30-Jan-14 16:23:43

Bottom line is that a parental request means you have the right to appeal refusal. The school does not have the right to appeal refusal.

Ask yourself how supportive your school have been so far. If they thought SA was needed why have they not already applied?

As osospecial rightly states, if you make the application yourself you know its been done then. Some schools can and do sit on such applications for ages.

If you make the application yourself you can appeal the decision in the event the LEA say no. School cannot do that; they have no appeal rights. It will look better for it coming from you.

lougle Thu 30-Jan-14 18:07:41

"Bottom line is that a parental request means you have the right to appeal refusal. The school does not have the right to appeal refusal."

The school doesn't, but the parents have the right to appeal the refusal, whatever the origin of the request.

"7:29 ....If the LEA refuses to agree to a parent’s, school’s or setting’s request for assessment, parents have the right of appeal to the SEN
Tribunal."

However, I still think it's best if it comes from you, because then you get to be the one who decides when the request is made. It shifts the power balance slightly, I think.

Skylar123 Thu 30-Jan-14 18:14:36

Ok thanks all I thought as much I just wanted to get some MN views just incase . I will be appealing as I am expecting a refusal. Can I run something else by you...senco said that new plans from sept 13 may be better for Ds and to wait until then? I said that I have heard the opposite and I should do it before statements are phased out senco didn't agree but on the other hand did offer to make SA application.

Skylar123 Thu 30-Jan-14 18:20:41

Ds had another school refusal day today and it took 4 hrs to get him
Into school. When I got there it took 50 mins to get him
Out of car. Senco came out to help he was literally forced out of my car I did play part to this and I feel terribly guilty. Ds ran off round back of school with 3 teachers trying to coax him into school it was horrendous he was crying and shaking. Senco said that I should leave so I did but it broke my heart as he was calling for me and begging me not to leave him there . He trusts me and I left him. I'm having difficulty accepting that I did that but isn't it for the best. He has to go to school. He calmed down eventually and the HT came out once he was calm and he walked in. I hope she didn't tell him off. She has before . Ds is with do now and I haven't seen him properly but I saw him briefly after school and he just said 'you left me' ! :-(oh sorry to rant I'm just at a loss as to how to help him.

babiki Sat 01-Feb-14 09:44:14

Your poor boy sad

You are right regarding statements; do it quickly under the old system. There is so much uncertainty about EHC and it does not look at all it will be 'better', quite the contrary.

Many SENCO's training in SEN law is very poor, they get told lots if rubbish from LA and thus don't know the actual law, just LA's often misguided internal regulations.

streakybacon Sat 01-Feb-14 10:50:55

You've also got control of the situation if you apply yourself and if you ask for progress report you won't have to go through school to get it. LA will deal directly you. Apply now - it makes little difference whether statement of EHC will be 'better' for your child, if you apply now the wheels will be in motion but if you wait till September you'll have lost a lot more time. Good luck.

beautifulgirls Sat 01-Feb-14 12:38:58

I would start the process now, and personally I would suggest do it yourself. Our school did ours (and I was able to appeal when the LA said no) but they took SO long processing the paperwork to send it off. If you apply yourself the school are asked for their information anyway and will be given a time limit to do this in, so it means things will move along instead of stagnating.

I would go now rather than wait for the new plans simply because the old system is better understood. It may will end with you getting a new plan anyway, but at least you are have a chance with the old process and can have another shot with the new process if needs be.

Skylar123 Sat 01-Feb-14 15:51:26

Thanks all I will start next week. Should I get a private ed phys in to see Ds and use report for my SA application? I don't have many reports tbh, sch also send that it might not be easy for me as no medical reports.

streakybacon Sat 01-Feb-14 16:47:04

I had very few recent documents from professionals but I did have a lot of correspondence, emails etc, which I copied and sent as proof that I'd had involvement with their services (crap SALTs and OTs didn't trouble themselves to write reports hmm)

Send whatever you've got. Write a detailed Parents Views to outline the concerns and build your case for statutory assessment.

Your ds will be seen by EP if they assess so you shouldn't have need of a private one.

ToffeeWhirl Sat 01-Feb-14 17:09:10

I'm so sorry you went through that with your DS on Thursday. I had to do that with my DS too. I was told (by CAMHS) that it was vital that I got him into school so that he learned to overcome his anxiety, so I left him with the TA and walked away, leaving him crying for me. It was hideous and it still haunts me. I did what I had been advised to do and I knew that the TA was brilliant with him and would soon calm him down (and she did), but it felt all wrong. So you have all my sympathy. And, even though it worked and got my DS back to school (for a bit), I would never do it again.

Trust your instincts. If you feel it's wrong to leave your child because he's so upset, don't leave him next time. I don't believe it helps any child to suffer like that. There will be a reason your DS is this anxious and it's not his fault and he isn't just being badly behaved. Don't feel you have to do what the school tell you.

I can't believe, though, that you spent five hours getting him to school. I would have given up long before then! And the HT should not be telling him off - she should be praising him for overcoming his anxiety. It doesn't sound as if she's at all understanding.

Is your son getting help for his anxiety from CAMHS? My boy had CBT, which helped.

Good luck with your statement. I'm applying for one for my DS at the moment. Have decided to apply myself, as I don't think the school will do it and I'd rather be in control - so I would agree with the others that you should apply yourself.

Skylar123 Sat 01-Feb-14 21:55:17

Good luck with your statement toffee I still haven't made the application but I will. I don't feel confident about it though. Think that's why I'm putting it off. M'ners and Ipsea keep telling me I should do it. It would be based on social and communication difficulties rather than academic stuff. Although if he didn't have the barrier with communication he would be at a much higher level than he is.
We have just been referred to camhs due to the constant school refusal. Senco said to request that he is seen as an emergency case after we spent 50 mins getting him out of the car and then a further half hour chasing him round the sch grounds but camhs said can't see him any quicker unless he self harms which he doesn't. It's a bit of a mess and I am at a loss at how to help him what to do for the best and who to trust and who not to trust . I will fight till my grave for my boy, as many mothers would, I just wish I knew what the hell to do.

MariaNotChristmas Sat 01-Feb-14 22:24:32

Just bung the application in and stop stressing about it. It really doesn't need to be very good - they'll ask school for their bits, and what you write doesn't carry much weight anyway.

Probably useful to enclose copies of any documentation you have, though; there's an awful lot of document loss and misfiling at school level, and even more at LA level.

Skylar123 Sat 01-Feb-14 22:32:21

Ok , will do. Thx

ToffeeWhirl Sun 02-Feb-14 00:16:00

I am using the IPSEA template for mine, Skylar, and am enclosing any relevant documentation, eg OT report, educational psychologist report.

I managed to get a Gp's note signing my DS off sick with stress when school became too much for him at one point. Could you do that whilst you're waiting for the CAMHS appointment? The school don't sound like they are helping at all.

streakybacon Sun 02-Feb-14 08:08:41

I have to disagree that the parental submission doesn't carry weight, though I will concede that the way you present it will make a lot of difference. If you can demonstrate that what the school say isn't actually what's happening in practice, it will strengthen your case.

Skylar123 Sun 02-Feb-14 09:27:44

Ok I will try hard to do that. Thanks for tips

claw2 Sun 02-Feb-14 12:37:47

I would say that when parents make the request, even with the backing of school, school can back out at the last minute or change their mind, its amazing what pressure from the LA can do.

Why not let school do it, IF they are prepared to let you see their application and work in partnership with you?

claw2 Sun 02-Feb-14 12:45:17

Or ask the school to write a letter supporting your request?

Im just thinking forward a bit, as it is a common problem for school to back track at a later date.

In our case ds's school were supporting my request and wrote a letter saying they couldn't met needs, only to change their minds at Tribunal!

They wouldn't be able to do that if they themselves have made the request in the first place.

Skylar123 Sun 02-Feb-14 21:21:47

Hmmm...but I can't appeal if the school make the application, can I? I must have the appeal option as I feel I'm going to most definately need it.
When I spoke to senco about SA, she was saying how hard it will be, no medical evidence, etc. I said yes well I see a tribunal on the horizon and she looked at me like I had just said something truly awful, in fact it silenced her. Should I not have said this, I have no idea why it stunned her so much.
If I can appeal And be part of it I am all for the sch doing it , but do I get to add any of my stuff too or why I think Ds should be statemented at any point ?
When I said I would do it myself she laughed and said oh you don't trust me, haha..I reassured her that i do. She was joking apparently. Lol.

Skylar123 Sun 02-Feb-14 21:23:08

And she is right actually I don't trust them...do they only want to do it so that they can make sure he doesn't get one. The sch has a very low amount of children with statment sand IEP's for the area.

claw2 Sun 02-Feb-14 22:20:15

You can appeal as Lougle quite rightly stated up thread regardless of whether you or school make the request, its just school that cannot appeal.

SENCO might be expecting for SA to be refused and for you to leave it there.

If you don't trust school, particularly if you don't feel they understand his needs, do it yourself, but do ask school to write a letter supporting your request, just makes it harder for them to back track at a later date.

If you are fully expecting SA to be refused, regardless of who makes the request, im wondering if it might be quite strategic to let school make the request, then you appeal the refusal.

This way they would have to explain to a Tribunal why they have changed their minds, if they do not support you at Tribunal.

Although saying that a letter in agreement with you request and supporting it, would do the same thing. Sorry im just thinking out loud!

Do it yourself! with the schools support and agreement!

Skylar123 Sun 02-Feb-14 22:32:47

Ok thanks claw I can't even believe I didn't think of getting them to state they agree in a letter . I would prefer to do it myself.

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