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DS underacheiving wrt NC levels in SS - grrrrr

(88 Posts)

But his language and deficit areas in social interaction have improved hugely as has is engagement and ability to learn in a group.

What to do.........

School don't agree that a)he is underachieving academically and b)that it matters given his other problems.

PolterGoose Sat 26-Oct-13 10:27:12

Well, a is always going to be open to interpretation but b is a crock of shit hmm

I don't know how you prove underachieving though confused

I think b is more of a 'we are concentrating on his difficulties because there is no point him learning academic subjects if he can't function in society' I suspect.

I can prove his attainment at school is well below what it should be in music, can possible prove it in science if I can bear to go through reams of paperwork from the past, can definitely prove this in writing via video (he writes in print with mixed in capitals at school with incorrect pencil grip, but for me he does beautiful cursive writing with correct pencil grip hmm).

TBH I think the biggest issue for me is that his IEP is a load of rubbish and I have said so each time it has been produced but have been told not to worry about it as they are just a snapshot for paperwork purposes and that he has many more targets in each subject.

When I have asked for these targets to be shared I have got vague not concrete promises and nothing forthcoming.

AR coming up. How much to share of my views at that given LA will be copied into it all?

Just asked ds if he wanted to be educated at home or at school, he said school.

PolterGoose Sat 26-Oct-13 11:59:01

I asked my ds that question earlier this year when it was all yuck, he was horrified at the idea of not going to school shock < that face

Yes. I was wondering whether his reply was due to his rigidity i.e. going to school is what he does.

homework Sat 26-Oct-13 12:56:41

Could you not do a bit extra at home of will your child not have that. Or if you could afford it get him a tutor to help improve his grades . Just because he struggles with social skill is no reason that he shouldn't be being pushed academically . There are plenty jobs out there that you don't need to particularly socialise well , but as long as you can do the job involved that's what matters. Don't know what levels your at or how old your child is , but think this is pis- poor of his teachers and the school if there not pushing your child , nobody knows what you can achieve and we all grasp things at different times in our life's and school is only one very small part , but needless to say an important part.
All you can do in speak to them again and constantly write in his home / school book what you expect him to be doing , they may not move him on straight away but if he making the progress they will eventually within a couple of week , that was my experience of time my son spent in his special school. It's hard as they quote all this stuff at you , but nobody knows your child better than you . Yes sometimes they do need to be out there comfort zone to learn other things . Sorry got a bit long this really annoyed me at time when my son was going though similar , I knew he could achieve it was more matter how how to support him and ensuring that he's understood what he was required to do.

I can and often do homework, but I think the issue now is that he is not just a bit behind. He is REALLY behind, and once he was 2 years ahead, though I am happy to admit that the early years learning is less abstract and more concrete which children with ASD are able to better cope with.

But thank you for giving me some hope homework

homework Sat 26-Oct-13 13:55:56

My son is now 14 , has recently changed schools again because of persistent bullying that was turning him into not a very nice person . Although the school was good academically and put in good support , they never dealt with the ingrained bullying that happened , they knew it was going on , had witnessed it , still didn't do anything about it . New school at present he's not had any support sorted yet as was a very last minute move . They are in process of finalise this at moment but he has surprised everyone by how well he's coping , he's doing 8 gcse all academic stuff , a btec in health and social care plus as school a Utc he doing 10 hours lab time working on a project on DNA , which he's in his element .
He left special school on p scales , level ones at end of year three . Moved back to mainstream primary very small school , in poor area where lots of people didn't want to send there kids , this place was fantastic applied for him to be year retained for rest of his education . He repeated year three and left in year six on good level four for math / science , low level four for English. Just scrapped this . Continued to improve his grades academically at high school despite all the bullying and being assaulted physically that knocked his front teeth out , that he's still undergoing treatment for to this day .
We went round this other school week before he was due back in September . He loved it asked if we could get his statement changed as he had enough of bullying from other school . We went back same day to discuss with them his need , we knew he wouldn't necessary get one to one help like last place , but saying that there now looking at employing someone to help out in class for him and another two children who they think would benefit .
I even came on here worried I had made a mistake , the lea where on holiday and person I initially spoke to was horrible to me , it all gotten sorted , and he's loving the responsibility , working hard , still struggle with English but teacher think they can get him a c in his English with the hard work he puts in .
So what I'm trying to say though our story is to never give up , dispute what your being told believe in your child , push them as much as they capable of , also what they let you away with . ( they can get more stubborn as they get older). They also know importance of hard work if they always had to work at things , its no shock o them , they already know how to put the effort in as they always had to throughout there lives in every aspect . Where's its academic or social they always have had to work .
You child will achieve in the areas that they have talents in , the others they just have to work harder than everyone else to get . But please never forget that they can do it with your help and support the worlds there oyster .

PolterGoose Sat 26-Oct-13 14:06:34

homework the bullying sounds awful, is the new school better? It is really heartening to hear what a good primary can do, my ds starts secondary next year and I've been hugely impressed with our local comp, it's in special measures and not a popular school at all, but it feels right smile

Star just saw your thread on primary education board, it is very interesting the type of replies you're getting, I bet they'd be different if you'd said ds has autism and is at a SS...

Yes Polter. I didn't mention it though because I don't think it is relevant, or at least not as relevant as it might be assumed.

If I was asked outright I would have said though. If anything it is BECAUSE he is in a SS that he should be doing better, as arguably they are equipped to ensure he can access his education better.

MariaNoMoreLurking Sat 26-Oct-13 14:15:11

I would concentrate on persuading school, tbh. And not in the AR, unless you think school is failing, and have somewhere to move him to.

The handwriting is probably their potential 'eureka' moment. If you can get teacher to sit with him to do a timed piece school-style, and then to watch him repeating it your way, she'll be eating out of your hand.

Get that one sorted. 6 weeks later pick another subject, something quite small, one that was a strength& is now a weakness. Ask tell them how you can help close the gap in subject x, and produce another miracle. Repeat in 6 weeks... after a short while their expectations will be higher.

'and have somewhere to move him to'

tbh, I'm working on this, but it relies on his levels being higher than they are.

magso Sat 26-Oct-13 15:03:57

Star when ds changed school at 7 from MS to SS he was assessed much lower than his ms school. They explained this as having more experience than a ms at assessing on P scales. Fair enough I thought. Oddly the very same thing happened when he transferred to SS secondary. I personally think there may be a policy of avoiding overgrading in SS (whilst MS seem to do the opposite) - perhaps linked to targets and other data gathering so it looks better that way.
Ds was also given low P scores in subjects such as PE and music despite enthusiasm for both ( he is 13 so P4 is much lower than I would expect for a very energetic child in PE even with learning disability). I think the low score in pe is because my son cannot fit in well with team sports, which is what the school do. If they scored him for distance running or climbing they would see a different side. He has stayed on the same low maths grade (a subject he finds difficult) for 2 years despite making progress because there is one element of the P8 score he still cannot do(may never comprehend) so he appears not to have made any progress. I wonder if similar things are happening to your son?
We have almost given up on ds school (there is limited choice for a child as complex as ds )! I could not home educate (nor would HE work for ds who needs some noise, bustle and getting out of the house) so have gone for afterschool computer based support with a local company. Its fun for ds and plays to his relative strength in computer use. He will do things for a computer, but melts into the background at school. We know he is making progress all be it very slowly.
I do think you should query the scores and ask them what the next step is for each subject. It may be that your child is achieving almost all of the P6 or higher for example, but one element of the P5 is not yet achieved so the level is held up by that one point to remain at P4 as my son has.

Thank you magso. TBH, I really don't care about 'scores', but I do care that the school are accurately understanding his strengths and weaknesses.

I don't know whether they do.

I have to say his SALT report was excellent, as I expected, despite not getting on with the person who wrote it. She's a great and perceptive SALT though seems to have a bee in her bonnet about parents who ask questions. And the progress in that area is very good, at least, from what the scores say.

lougle Sat 26-Oct-13 15:35:53

How big is the gap between your assessment and theirs? Is the difference across all areas or just specific subjects?

Lougle The gap isn't really very big for most of the subjects. In fact I would say it was accurate for most.

The significant point is that their accurate scoring is not where he SHOULD be by now. I believe he is demonstrating at that level, and that he has not learnt past that level, but I also believe that he was and is capable of being on a much higher level and having learnt more iyswim.

Not in all subjects because it would be naïve to suggest that there won't be the odd deficit caused by his disability, but I was shocked to see all the scores so consistently low.

lougle Sat 26-Oct-13 17:12:35

Ahh ok. So it's not a case of underperforming in assessment, but of a general lack of pushing, in your view?

That's more difficult.

How has he progressed over time?

lougle Sat 26-Oct-13 17:13:06

btw. the p levels are actually quite huge. A whole p level is quite a jump.

Well put it this way. He is seven next month and I have just read his EP report which was written at 3.5 which said he can recognise and use numbers 1-10 consistently and had almost grasped 10-20.

His current school report says he can now recognise and use numbers 1-20, 4 years later.

At 3.5 his numeracy and literacy skills were rated at roughly 5.5 years. At 7 years they are showing at between 4.5 - 6 years.

He hasn't regressed. There is no neurological basis for this that I can see and he can still learn now, as fast as he did then when I teach him things.

His science report says he can how identify around 20 body parts. So did the report written when he was 3.5years.

His music report puts him at a P4, yet he plays two instruments, attends a mainstream orchestra and sings in a mainstream glee choir, though his teacher only knows about one instrument and doesn't know his level unless his school keyboard teacher has shared this with her.

lougle Sat 26-Oct-13 18:01:34

That does sound low. Do you think it's anything to do with interaction skills? That can often hold back the levels.

Here are the P Level Descriptors

Yes Lougle I imagine it does. But if they are holding him back to that extent I'm not sure that him being in a SALT specialist schools is making the difference I feel it ought to.

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