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Don't know where to go...

(24 Posts)

Ds1 is 6 and in year 2. As yet he has no diagnosis or statement but the current senco has suggested autism which is what I expected anyway. I've posted about him before but I don't know how to do links on my phone. Basically he doesn't like working to someone elses agenda and will become frustrated and hit out. It had settled down when he started year 2 which I thought may be due to him maturing a little and also having his previous senco as his teacher. Unfortunately it has escalated, particularly towards the end of last week and he has been removed from the classroom as he started to hit the ta and throw chairs. The senco and reception teacher had to come calm him down and he spent the remainder of the morning in the library. When he has recovered after one of his meltdowns he generally can't remember what set him off or much about it. He currently only does 9 til 12 and has for the past year or so despite attempts to extend it.
The new senco (who is also the deputy head) seems much better than the last and is trying to do what she can to accommodate him. In March I received a letter from the Umbrella Pathway with regards to assessing him. I sent my report in and he has seen an OT and a speech therapist who have also sent their reports in but have heard nothing since despite their claims of it only taking a few weeks. The senco has emailed them and is waiting to hear back as apparently the person who was in charge has changed. In our latest meeting about DS1's PSP she said that she suspects autism and that we need to get an official diagnosis and then a statement which was what I thought we were doing. She has also suggested that maybe their school is not the place for him. He went to a short stay school for 6 weeks as a placement and she now wants to see if she can get him back in there but for that he needs to be permanently excluded. I just don't know what to do about him. In an ideal world I would just take him out of school and home school him but I can't see how that would work as I also have a 2 year old son and am currently pregnant. He would just spend all day watching tv or playing on a train simulator game on the pc if it was up to him.

Apologies for the length of my post but to sum up, my son hates being at school, he gets violent during a meltdown, senco says their school may not be the place for him and I don't know what to do now.

coff33pot Mon 21-Oct-13 00:38:07

What do you think smile never mind about what school thinks.

ask your school to more down their concerns regarding possible autism and some issues they have noticed and go see your GP and ask to be referred to a developmental pead.

ring and bother and nag the ot for her report and apply for a statement yourself. A statement is based on educational need not dx. is he on school action plus? has he been seen by an EP yet?

I dont see why he has to be excluded. there is enough evidence showing he needs support seeing as he has been permanently part time (which can be deemed as illegal exclusion in itself) this shows the school can't adequately meet his educational needs. It does not necessarily mean that your ds will not cope in MS school.

a statement and the correct support followed could well make a whole lot of difference smile

coff33pot Mon 21-Oct-13 00:39:39

Write down not more down!

He last saw an ep in February, and saw another one last year. I think I have a copy of the ot's report somewhere, and the one from the speech pathologist, as well as both ep reports. I've been to the GP for a referral as the ep told me to do in February. That was how he got taken on by the Umbrella Pathway.

Oh and yes he is on school action plus, he has been for some time now.

moldingsunbeams Mon 21-Oct-13 01:15:03

Have they refered to an Educational Psychologist?
If not I agree with coff33pot, go to your gp and explain the situation with a list of your concerns and schools concerns too.

My friend is in a very similar situation only she has now got an autism diagnoses after years of the above but its been a struggle.

I also agree that just because he does not seem to be coping in this school does not mean he won't cope in any MS school. It does not sound like the school are able to meet his needs with or without a statement at the moment.

moldingsunbeams Mon 21-Oct-13 01:15:58

sorry xpost

Yes been to the GP, seen ep etc. Took him to school today and he got himself excluded within a few minutes of being there. First time this year but it is for 5 days rather than just the rest of the day.

coff33pot Mon 21-Oct-13 14:46:07

Take a look at ipsea web site there is a standard letter template that you can use to request assessment for a statement.

I am awful suspicious by nature and as you have advised school have already suggested excluding him to move him that may well be why the lengthy exclusion.

exclusions like this though only really confirm that the school is failing in his needs and can help the statement process. smile

it could also be that your DS has worked out if he plays up then he gets to go home (didn't take long for my son to work that one out)

I was told my DS would not cope in MS by his school. however even with a statement the school failed him as they were not prepared to adhere to it or have any training. took him out and he has just had a fantastic year at a new MS.

AgnesDiPesto Mon 21-Oct-13 15:25:35

You don't need the diagnosis to get a statement. You can get a statement just for the behaviour difficulties. You should def apply yourself now (simple letter on IPSEA). All the exclusions are evidence in themselves. It actually doesn't matter what the underlying cause is, there is clearly a need.

If the school does exclude then you have a right of appeal which can include an SEN expert doing a report. I would hazard a guess most SEN experts would advise the child gets a statement with proper support! Exclusion is supposed to be last resort eg after a statement with full support has failed.

LA must provide a fulltime education which can include education otherwise than at school (home tutor, home ABA programme etc) or special schools, units, dual placements etc
Also the LA can place him at a special school or unit without a statement as an emergency placement pending assessment. So PRU is not the only option & excluding is not the only way to move a child.
If there is a school or unit you think may be suitable go and look and ask for an emergency transfer. Look at private options too.
I would use the school's threats of exclusion to ask the LA to call a multi agency meeting now. Guidance on exclusions expects this to happen.

Lots of info on children on illegal part-time placements on DFE website, Childrens Commissioner report and Local Govt Ombudsman also did report 'out of school out of mind'. Worth reading all this so you know your legal rights

Your child has a legal entitlement to fulltime education so school has already failed your son by keeping him PT for so long without getting a statement.

Are you sure the only way to access the short stay school is a permanent exclusion? Were you happy with what was provided there? Often these 'rules' are just policies which can be departed from, or schools who want rid of a child trying to persuade you there is no alternative. You may find if you speak to SEN officer there is no such rule and he could go back there for 6 weeks. Statements don't have to take months either, they can rush them through if they need to.

MariaBoredOfLurking Mon 21-Oct-13 15:44:17

He currently only does 9 til 12 and has for the past year or so despite attempts to extend it Sounds like an illegal exclusion. This isn't allowed

new senco (who is also the deputy head) seems much better than the last Combine those 2 demanding jobs, and you can only do one properly. A stuffed carrot would be better than some sencos...

Umbrella Pathway with regards to assessing him You need to know whether this is education, NHS, or both. Your GP can enquire for you

I sent my report in and *seen an OT and a speech therapist who have also sent their reports in Good, especially if you can get copies to take to the GP and submit with your own statutory assessment application

but nothing since, despite their claims of it only taking a few weeks

the person who was in charge has changed The local public services and their internal staffing problems are not your problem

suspects autism and that we need to get an official diagnosis AND-THEN a statement No. No. No and more no.
He needs a statement AND-THEN a diagnosis (if applicable). Her job is to identify educational need. Diagnostic procedures, or lack thereof, are not directly relevant and really, are not a teacher's affair. They still have to educate dc with it's-something-else-not-autism-&-we-don't have-a-name-for-it, and autistic dc with parents who 'don't believe in labels'.

maybe their school is not the place for him Quite possibly, but this sounds like an employer trying to get an unwanted worker to resign

He went to a short stay school for 6 weeks as a placement Hmmm...
she now wants to see if she can get him back in there I bet she does...
but for that he needs to be permanently excluded I think you're meant to see permanent exclusion as the worst possible scenario so when they pull some other last-minute-getting-rid-of-ds scenario out of the bag you accept gratefully, rather than insisting on proper processes

MariaBoredOfLurking Mon 21-Oct-13 15:50:23

take him out of school and home school him but I can't see how that would work as I also have a 2 year old son and am currently pregnant

Homeschooling should be a positive choice made because the parent sees they can do a much better job than the education system. It might be that having seen their very best efforts (often still rubbish!) you decide to waive your son's legal right to 12 years of state-funded, appropriate education. It shouldn't be a choice you're driven to by the lack of provision by a senco who has illegally excluded him

MariaBoredOfLurking Mon 21-Oct-13 15:54:14

Does this lady have responsibility for the key stage 1 SATS by any chance...

bochead Mon 21-Oct-13 15:56:17

A statement is NOT diagnosis dependent. The law states that it is NEED dependent.

Your child has been illegally excluded for over a year with this part time malarkey. School are taking the proverbial.

You already have the evidence needed to get a statement!

My advice:-

1. Go to the IPSEA website and look at their model letters on how to apply for a statement. You need too to state that

"There is clear evidence that my child has been unable to access the national curriculum for over an academic year now and that school have been unable to rectify this situation from their own resources. He is only allowed to attend part time as that is all the school can cope with. I consider this to be clear evidence of his urgent need to assessed for a statement, according to the law".

Also in the letter do ask for a list a schools "that might be better able to allow my child to access the national curriculum"

2. Understand quickly that your child's current school have failed, are failing and will continue to fail your child as long as you allow them to.

3. You do not need anyone's permission to apply for a statement. It would however be polite to copy the letter you address to the Head of Children's service of your LA to the HT, Chair of Governors and SENCO, and Ofstead. Schools can be failed for failing SN kids, but ONLY if Ofstead know it's happening wink. There is no excuse for you not doing so quickly. It'll only cost you the price of a stamp.

Start looking around at other schools. The statement process takes 6 months and in that time school will be expected to show how they have and are meeting your child's needs. They need a rocket up the ba%*^s so give one asap!

I spent the whole of the summer holidays thinking how nice it would be to just not send him back to school. I worried that to just stop sending him would mean him getting 'lost' and nothing being sorted. He started off the term well and I thought he had settled down, the class had gotten the right measures in place to help him and there had been talk of attempting to extend his day again. I was having a meeting on Thursday anyway with the senco, and the head of the short stay school. I've rung the family support worker at the school to see if she will come with me and she will so that is a good start. I expect the head teacher will be there too at least, if no one else. The head seems very quick to dish out exclusions, he didn't have any last week for similar behaviour while she was off ill. Maybe it's because of it happening 3 times in a row?
When he went to the short stay school before it was for 3 days a week for 6 weeks. It's a very small school with 4 pupils per classroom and only 3 classrooms. One is for children doing the program and the other two are for permanently excluded pupils.

MariaBoredOfLurking Mon 21-Oct-13 22:21:00

Bet it's the SATS. Teacher busy with ds means less time forcibly engraving number bonds and advanced phonics onto the other dc's poor little brains.

See if the head is up for trying a few sessions in the class above or below

MariaBoredOfLurking Mon 21-Oct-13 22:25:53

The unit probably has a policy that dc can only go there repeatedly if there's a sensible plan underway for the long-term. And they'll bill your HT for the full placement cost, unless of course your ds is excluded first...

I don't think much to the year 1 teacher, she wasn't very good with DS last year. The only lessons he has done in the last year are literacy, numeracy and phonics, it's no wonder he isnt a fan of school. And he hates handwriting which doesn't help.

AgnesDiPesto Mon 21-Oct-13 22:35:27

Is comprehension an issue? DS is struggling in year 2 as the level of understanding expected and way oral instructions are delivered has really gone up several levels.

Do the statement letter. That gives the SEN officer a push to get involved and off the back of that you can insist on multi agency meeting - in fact SEN officer is likely to want one.

Thank you for your advice everyone. Can I ask who would be invited to a multi agency meeting?
I just can't stop feeling like I am failing him by making him go to this school. Would changing schools not just slow the process down and we would have to start again? I'm going to ring the short stay school myself tomorrow and see what they say about him going there again, or would it just be better to wait until I see her Thursday?

I thought that the Umbrella Pathway was who did the assessments for my area. www.hacw.nhs.uk/our-services/childrens-community-health-services/umbrella-pathway/ In that case he has already been referred for a statement hasn't he? They sent me a letter in March saying they had discussed him and were waiting on reports to continue with, including one from me which I have sent. I have heard nothing since though. I rang yesterday and they said they would call me back.

After much ringing around today I have found out that they are assessing as I thought. The hold up is waiting for the Dr he has been referred to to see him to do tests. The Dr gets 30 referrals a day so that is why it is taking so long.
At the meeting on Thursday at his school do I tell them they are failing, not him? They always seem to make out like they have tried everything so it is him. They have attempted blaming my parenting until the last meeting involving the woman from the short stay school who said she thought it was an anxiety thing and nothing to do with me.

NotNewHereAlias Tue 22-Oct-13 20:31:39

Nothing about statutory assessment on that pathway.

I suspect that's one of the things they can 'plan'; it would then roll along in parallel to the pathway.

The next thing you are told may be "we don't do statements anymore we're waiting for the new EHC plans" Or "we don't do statements as we're a pilot area" or similar.

Up to you whether you go along with that: a LA wanting to opt out of English education law doesn't mean they can.

So are you saying I still need to apply for the statutory assessment as that is not what they are doing?

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