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Why are schools not held just as responsible as the LEA for the failures

(112 Posts)
hoxtonbabe Thu 01-Aug-13 15:57:59

I have been reading through a few threads and the common none these last few months ( or in my case few years) is the issue with the school not implementing.

I understand that LA are ultimately responsible but given that schools also have a duty of care how is it so many of them can get away with what they do.

I suppose it depends on the issue so if a child needed say OT in school and LA didn't provide then I get that is the LA at fault but what happens if say the school have said they can offer xxx learning programme within school and their resources and then don't? That to me would be the school being at fault.

I think a lot of what we face as parents AFTER the ordeal of tribunal is then getting the school to comply and because they know they will never face any action like an LA does they just do whatever they feel like.

It's like a never ending vicious cycle of crap within the SEN system

sazale Tue 06-Aug-13 22:26:25

There are a couple of good teachers at the special school my dd has been attending and they've really motivated her. The rest including the senior management team are a disgrace. It's interesting how these good teachers repeatedly said to me at parents evening that they totally understood if I decided to move dd (they know I'm fighting for ASC specific provision)!

WetAugust Tue 06-Aug-13 22:20:34

Depressing, isn't it?

uggerthebugger Tue 06-Aug-13 22:04:55

Hmm. If truth be told, I've thought very, very highly of some of my DS's primary teachers over the years - I've had a few who weren't fazed by the disability, who knew they didn't have all the answers, who listened to our concerns and experience, who had high expectations, and knew how to work with parents and other professionals.

But I've never met a member of a school senior leadership team who has come anywhere close to this - in fact, most of the ones I've dealt with would serve their schools and kids better by being shot into low-earth orbit.

Special shout out here for the head who threatened a specialist member of staff with capability proceedings if she implemented DS1's carefully-calibrated rehabilitation programme. My DS1 would be many years further behind by now if this teacher hadn't had the guts to stand up for him back then.

WetAugust Tue 06-Aug-13 12:09:02

Yes, it must be nice to think highly of your childrens' teachers.

I have to admit to biting my tongue when all the 'present for the teacher' threads start up at the end of the school year.

The sorts of pressies I would have chosen for DS's would probably have required a firearms licence. grin <<<< notice grin - this is a joke.

hoxtonbabe Tue 06-Aug-13 10:16:41

Wet: I'm surprised I've not got flamed for starting this thread! As you know so many people think teachers are gods, so will defend to the hilt...however i have found the ones that defend have never been in situations like most of us on here and will never experience the careless, unethical, defensive behaviour of these people, as they either do not have kids or if they do they do not have any additional needs!!

The sad part is I can't even say its just my bad luck with my eldest DS school, my youngest DS primary school are just as bad as with my nephews school all of which are in different boroughs but behave exactly the same.

WetAugust Mon 05-Aug-13 23:59:52

... and I thought I was the only one on here who disliked teachers <can't say hated cos I got flamed once when I said that grin>

Join the club.

fightingforfairness Mon 05-Aug-13 22:42:00

Oh yes - the threats were an attempt to try to stop me asking too many awkward questions. It backfired on them though as it made me wonder what they were trying to hide by being so aggressive and defensive. I then had a dig about and uncovered some interesting stuff wink. Their behaviour might come back to bite them on the backside. They've helpfully put everything in writing too so can hardly deny it.
The press would have a field day with some of the stuff we've had thrown at us.

hoxtonbabe Mon 05-Aug-13 22:11:39

Threatened you?!? I am convince most of these schools think they are the Mafia! I'm waiting to find a dead horses head or something at my front door from my lot with the way they behave... They have not threatened me yet though, they just like to tell me I should know my place, lol

fightingforfairness Mon 05-Aug-13 21:48:49

I have lost all respect too after being threatened by governors who don't even know the law but think they are above it! angry.

hoxtonbabe Mon 05-Aug-13 21:33:18

I didn't think there was a replacement for the GTC...I wouldn't even bother with that, I suspect they will be no different than school governors...cover everything up and turn a blind eye.

i have lost all respect for teachers, and when they approach me about some stupid strike/campaign for more pay, etc... I calmly tell them about the wonders of the teachers at BOTH my DS school and how they have refused him his legal and human rights so forgive me if I do not feel any sympathy for you as you, can at least get a job...god knows what will happen to my child....that soon shuts them up.

Hmmm...the press thing is an idea I've been toying with, but I then get dragged back into some appeal or complaint that takes up my time....gosh I hate the LA and more so DS school!!

fightingforfairness Mon 05-Aug-13 21:28:12

everything else seems to be tbh Wet sad

WetAugust Mon 05-Aug-13 21:19:32

'spect it's a waste of time sad

fightingforfairness Mon 05-Aug-13 20:30:58

The GTC has now been abolished and replaced by the National College for Teaching and Leadership.
I think you have to go through various stages before you can complain though (just like everything else)

WetAugust Mon 05-Aug-13 19:47:59

I think the GTC has only 'struck off' about 2 teachers since they started sad

bochead Mon 05-Aug-13 08:22:23

Has anyone complained to the General Teaching Council?

If so has it yielded results?

I hear of people complaining to the General Medical Council, (the MMR case or Harold Shipman being the most widely publicised) but there seems to be radio silence on public complaints to the General Teaching Council. Why is that?

WetAugust Sun 04-Aug-13 12:23:36

have a lovely time. Send us a postcard! grin

inappropriatelyemployed Sun 04-Aug-13 12:22:30

But not to me grin What else can I say comrade?

Off on me hols now. Have a good week. And thanks to all for your endless fabulousness and Wet for your being ace this week!

WetAugust Sun 04-Aug-13 00:18:00

Left wing lawyer ! grin

As an example of how important appropriate clothing is:

The Army decided a few years ago that everyone from Major General to the greenest squaddie had to war DPM fatigues - i.e. trousers and shirt in disrupted pattern material and big clunking boots. A few of the old Colonels I worked with were most put out about this as they had to forgo their olive green tailored trousers, green shirt / jerseys and red flashes.
Meanwhile the RAF permitted their people to wear Air Force Blue shirt jerkins /jerseys and trousers and the Navy continued to war black trousers and white shirts.
An Army major in my team complained that he wasn't being taken seriously at meetings as everyone else in the room was dressed very business like, in office attire, while he had to turn up looking like Action Man.

So it is important.

inappropriatelyemployed Sat 03-Aug-13 22:51:31

Oh Wet, I would never get into a fight with you about anything!! You are tops. I would appear in court in jeans if I could. I totally don't get the uniform thing at all.

But I am an old leftie grin

fightingforfairness Sat 03-Aug-13 20:35:34

You do have a point Wet. At ds's school the children were all threatened with exclusion if their tie was worn too short as it would not project the right image of the school.
Ds rightly pointed out that this seemed a bit unfair as some teachers were slopping about in scruffy leggings. Double standards!

WetAugust Sat 03-Aug-13 20:21:27

IE - I think you've missed the point here. I called it 'u-man rights' because it is not human rights per se but some thicko's (mis)interpretation of them.
I mentioned the Daily mail because every time someone harks back to 'how things used to be' they are usually accused of being a frothing Daily Mail reader. So my post was actually tongue-in-cheek in some respects

But this is where we disagree radically:
*Wet - I am sure that teachers are all very appropriately dressed in top grammars and private schools. I can't see that makes any difference to their ability to care or to support SEN though.

I don't see the connection between dress code and effective practice at all to be honest.*

Looking the part is everything. It sends out the right signals. You agree you wouldn't appear in Court dressed in jeans and a T shirt to argue your case would you - but even if you were permitted to I doubt that you would because it would not give your client the same confidence seeing his brief dressed as though for a weekend in Glastonbury rather than exuding professional calm in appropriate clothing even if the case is argued in exactly the same way.

The top grammars and private schools send out those right signals. Turning up in jeans, nose rings etc to teach impressionable students is, in mind, displaying contempt i.e. you are not worth me spending a little time each morning dressing in a professional manner. No, I want to dress like you and be one of your gang - and with that they have totally lost any command of their classroom.

They claim to be professionals, they want to be as professionals - well start acting like professionals.

Actually - don't bother discussing this with me. I know my prejudice is clouding everything as you know just how much I loathe teachers.

inappropriatelyemployed Sat 03-Aug-13 19:43:25

Wet - I am sure that teachers are all very appropriately dressed in top grammars and private schools. I can't see that makes any difference to their ability to care or to support SEN though.

I don't see the connection between dress code and effective practice at all to be honest and I very much disagree with blaming 'human rights'

If human rights principles were truly understood and applied, our children would not be treated the way they are. And a teachers dress code doesn't fall under any human rights article I am aware of. So that is very Daily Mail, in the sense of blaming everything on 'human rights' when 'human rights' are not actually involved !! grin

To be honest, if DS was support effectively and compassionately, I couldn't give two hoots about what that support looked like.

I worked in one of the top practices in the country and I have never met such dedicated lawyers. When we were not at court, we wore jeans or whatever we liked to the office. It didn't change the quality of my advice to clients.

TOWIELA Sat 03-Aug-13 18:44:32

Fortunately I was spared the remedial class! Probably because I was in grammar schools and a remedial class was beyond the pale! Actually CSEs were beyond the pale and we all did (and got) 10 O levels! After a year in one grammar school, we moved and I did the rest of my school years in another grammar. This was the one with the head always in academic robes. My first meeting with her was when all 6 foot of her swept majestically in, in full flowing robes and announced to my 12 year self that "we are putting you in the Latin class, because if you learn Latin, you will learn the roots of words so will be cured" shock

Strangely enough, learning Latin didn't cure me of my dyslexia! However it did give me a love for history and I can (vaguely) understand Medieval Latin - which has been, surprisingly, a useful talent to have!

WetAugust Sat 03-Aug-13 18:28:25

The system of SS when I was at primary in the dark ages was that you took the really seriously disabled cases away to SS. That left those with moderate learning difficulties. You then took them regardless of age and taught them in one 'remedial' class.

I always remember that the 'remedial' class produced some amazing artwork which was hung in the school entrance. And they seemed happy. Expectations of them were low in those days - but they did seem more supported even in that whole-class environment than some of the so-called 1:1 support that's provided now.

WetAugust Sat 03-Aug-13 18:25:03

Oh I know what you mean about preening. My neighbour has just retired from a LA. Well actually he's just been driven out of his job by an absolute assholse of a manger half his age. He had an extended period of sick leave due to stress and then retired. Very sad. So they do it to each other as well as to us.

I went to a retirement do yesterday at my old office. Heard all the jargon and the politics and all the managerial crap, for the first time since I left last autumn. I so regret that I spent so many of my 'good' years working in that place - but I suppose we all have to work somewhere and it paid well..

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