Tribunal win makes the news

[EllenJanesthickerknickers]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-22663448

Saw this story on the BBC news website. Surprised it made the news. Wonder if they're MNers?

[2006hildy]

Good for them.

I want publicity for our tribunal (Refusal tp Assess) too but so far no-one has replied.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Anyone got a spare £27k ?




Tribunals need to be able to award costs. Given that the parents won, presumably this placement is only 'adequate' and the LA were refusing it.

It took 18 months. What happened to the boy during that time?

Disgraceful.

Even if you HAVE £27k, it is STILL Hell out there.

[inappropriatelyemployed]

Great to see someone's victory reported but what an outrage that it cost 27k!!! Who on earth is racking up costs like that for parents??

[StarlightMcKenzie]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-21261332 SEN Legal

[inappropriatelyemployed]

I agree. Legal aid in the childs name would put an end to alot of this.

But it does annoy me that 'experts' charge 2-3k to do anything and many solicitors charge for everything and then instruct barristers anyway!

Everyone's a winner bar the family and child. Yet they walk away feeling like 27k in costs is a victory cos they've managed to get their child an appropriate education - ie what he was entitled to in the first place!

What a f*ed up system'

[Grey24]

I was pleased to see BBC News making people aware that these kind of battles are going on all the time and that they cost parents so much.

Very well done those parents - and how sad it took so long to achieve for their son.

[inappropriatelyemployed]

Might have guessed!

[StarlightMcKenzie]

18 months of £40 per letter, email, received or sent. Time spent reading it at £100 per hour. 2 hours meeting with barrister £2k (there are likely to have been a few). Billing for time for solicitor and barrister communications. Likely tribunal-imposed telephone hearing or two requiring barrister and solicitor. Expert witnesses to attend hearing at around £1k each. In 18 months that will also be 3 reports each to keep them within the 6 months freshness.

I think there were two tribunals. One to assess and one for placement.

And please don't forget £300 just to get that legal firm to look at your paperwork in the first instance whilst refusing so much as a telephone conversation before cheque cashed.

[MareeeyaDoloures]

So... could they have won for £10k if they'd done it themselves? Or £15k using an advocate?

The disadvantage of letting tribunals award costs is it might encourage vast platoons of expensive but shoddy solicitors to try to cash in

[inappropriatelyemployed]

I don't know why solicitors don't do these hearings themselves. It's crazy that clients pay for solicitor and barrister.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Think that barrister is closer to £4k for a 2 hour meeting.....

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Okay, so legal aid would be a better arrangement!?

And a banning from LA's from being represented (they are after all supposed to KNOW the bloody law).

[MareeeyaDoloures]

See, that £300. It could be so much better handled.

A deposit. Refunded in full if they decide you're too complex to bother with. Or as a voucher to submit against your overall case costs if you go ahead (or even if you drop out after £300/ worth of phone calls).

No idea of retailing, these people.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Well they don't need to presumably they get the work without having to bother with the parents who quibble the £300 who simply won't be as likely to keep your winning stats up by hiring your overpriced preferred tribunal EP and SALT.

[EllenJanesthickerknickers]

So wrong that it takes relatively wealthy parents to ensure a DC like their DS gets an adequate education. I'm sure they feel it was worth it, but it's so completely out of the reach of most families, financially and many more just don't have the knowledge.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

People don't believe this is what it is though.

I met a Primary Teacher at a party recently. She had 'heard' that my ds had ASD and sought me out deliberately to tell me to make sure that now I'm in this part of the country to stay away from SOSSEN because they are encouraging very wealthy parents to seek dx and then take LA's to court for independent schools to be funded when there isn't really much wrong with them in her and her colleagues opinion, they are just struggling a bit and could do with a bit more discipline.

I had NO words.

[MareeeyaDoloures]

Taking a wild guess, a regular solicitor good at claiming care home fees back off the NHS ought to be able to runrisings round an LA for a fraction of the costs above. Cardiff example

It's superficially very similar:
National criteria are translated into local ones (often illegal)
People argue over severity of the condition and it's effects
And who is qualified to help, how many hours it takes etc.
NHS & LA in cahoots (or occasionally, scrapping like cats)
Finally a big row about the costings.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

So what is that cost?

[MareeeyaDoloures]

I think it's around £3-7k. But that is a guess on sketchy information.

[MareeeyaDoloures]

The LA which encourages staff to say that dc with complex SEN are just 'struggling a bit and in need of more discipline' openly, must surely be in desperate need of some extra training. Unless they somehow like sounding totally ignorant and have no problem with that level of manifest stupidity meaning they lose every tribunal for an uber-expensive independent specialist school.

[lougle]

See, this is why I didn't retrain. I was going to do a law degree, etc., then specialise in SEN law. I couldn't do it. I couldn't make money off the backs of vulnerable parents trying to get provision for their vulnerable children.

I need to make money from the knowledge I have, somehow, but I can't do it by exploiting more vulnerable people.

[rosielou678]

This case and its result fills me with great joy. To answer how can it cost £27k - if you have both refusal to assess AND a crap Statement that's not worth the paper it's written on then you can easily get this figure. Throw into the mix a LA which is acting illegally, then it's soo so simple for everyone but the child and parents to win win win. I am not the parent involved in this case but everything about it is virtually the same as my DC's case. I would not say we are a relatively wealthy family - just a family who has not had any option but to push this on to its only conclusion.

[dowhatyouwill]

I'm with rosielou here. Very similar case to my own (am a namechanger) - refusal to assess, pts 2 3 4 appeals, plus costs of reports and witnesses for SALT, OT, psych, EP, EP school visits, travel costs, even the initial diagnosis had to be paid for as NHS refused at first. The school we got is a residential AS school (so very expensive, more than the cost of Centre Academy in this case), and pretty much all the parents of dc there have had to spend the same. It's not fair, but weighing up the cost we spent vs. the cost of provision DS gets (over the 8 years he will spend there) makes me feel that it was at least 'good value'. And while our solicitor was expensive, she was good and worked hard on our case, so I don't begrudge it at all.

I am a single mum and get tax credits, housing benefit etc - really struggled to pay those legal fees. But I think it was the right thing to do for DS and I felt empowered by having an advocate, rather than being exploited. It would have been much worse to not have access to them at all and be forced to represent myself, or depend on charity advocacy services (I initially used those but they expected parents to take on more than I could manage, whereas the solicitor did far more letter writing and chasing up for me, which I needed at the time).